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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
1) True, but shouldn't Kosovo had a 'republic' like status now? It had it's own legal system as far as I can remember under 1974 constitution, and a member in Yugoslavian presidency. Within SRJ it had none of these. ? |
Well as soon as you give Dalmatia the status of the Republic.
As far as I am concerned, we should have let them go a long time ago. TOo expensive to combat drug traffic and arms smuggling.
Just tell me an honest question. Would YOU like Croatia to have Kosovo as a part, either as autonomous region or republic
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2) I thought they had a right to seperate after a referendum that was positive. But do you have a link or something? ? |
sure, nations, not republics
therefore, alongside the 1974 constitution SFRY should have been broken up alongside ethnic lines
there was a dichotomy between the statehood of republics and the right to self determination of nations (serbs, croats, etc.). nationalities had no such right (albanians were in this category)
i am sure you can find a SFRY constitution
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3) I would like a link on this too, I thought that the number of Serbs in Croatia is much greater 150000 as you say. Basically as if 2/3 left. ? |
these are preliminary results of the census 2001. i read it in some croatian paper. will provide link once it is online www.dzs.hr
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Well I haven't heard that line have you got a link  but I don't like him either. |
well how about this one 'NDH was a result of the historical aspirations of croatian nation'
top notch
quote:
And as for Kosovo speach for than Yugoslavian situation was quite 'protective' and had an accent on the Serbian national strenght. Like this quote:
Through the play of history and life, it seems as if Serbia has, precisely in this year, in 1989, regained its state and its dignity and thus has celebrated an event of the distant past which has a great historical and symbolic significance for its future. |
for example
That was totallw weird for Yugoslavian communist "bratstvo I jedinstvo" - brotherhood and unity moto. Where publicly a republic pride and exceptionality displays were not allowd.
That was a public start. |
um, i guess he is guilty for croatian maspok too?
i mean, at the time of the first croatian nationalistic revival he was a bank manager and 'liberals' were at power in serbia
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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
Well as soon as you give Dalmatia the status of the Republic.
As far as I am concerned, we should have let them go a long time ago. TOo expensive to combat drug traffic and arms smuggling.
Just tell me an honest question. Would YOU like Croatia to have Kosovo as a part, either as autonomous region or republic |
i definitley wouldn not want Kosovo to be a part that is for sure, not much gained apart from problems.
quote:
sure, nations, not republics
therefore, alongside the 1974 constitution SFRY should have been broken up alongside ethnic lines
there was a dichotomy between the statehood of republics and the right to self determination of nations (serbs, croats, etc.). nationalities had no such right (albanians were in this category)
i am sure you can find a SFRY constitution |
I agree that Albanians did not have the right to secceed but I was thinking about nations like croats/ Slovenes they had the right I think we aggree on that too.
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these are preliminary results of the census 2001. i read it in some croatian paper. will provide link once it is online www.dzs.hr |
It is still not out yet but we will see what will be the results.
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well how about this one 'NDH was a result of the historical aspirations of croatian nation'
top notch
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I haven't heard this one either so far. Do you think that former director of FK Partizan would say that?
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um, i guess he is guilty for croatian maspok too?
i mean, at the time of the first croatian nationalistic revival he was a bank manager and 'liberals' were at power in serbia |
What 1971? Not that this acquits him of being in control of armed forces and paramilitary when the war started and onwards. Anyway I think his first day of defense went well, and I am really looking forward to see him calling all these foreign politicans and bringing forth the evidence that he has.
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Personally I would want him relesed form accusation for genocide in Bosnia, that would make my people not genocide nation. Which is untue (propaganda). There are many minorities leaving in Serbia, and nobody thouched them, ever. On the other hand there are barely any Serbs in Croatia (most were driven away in Storm operation: THAT'S A GENOCIDE)
If he is guily by command, it means that there is at lest several thousands of guilty people. Which makes my natuion a genocide nation.
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Well for genocide we will see what will he bring to his defense, and that it is untrue - during 1991-1995 on 1/3 of Croation territory there were only Serbs there, and so were in 49% of Serb controlled Bosnia until recently, everybody else was expelled or killed, now I read that there are people coming back. I think that an existance of a plan will be proven for that and I presume that Serbs will testify against Milosevic on all these counts. But we will see.
On Croatia as I earlier said 150 000 people packed up and left withing 5 days without being forced out and without major resistance either - they left as Croatian army was coming in- My view is that the Krajina leadership wanted to pull in SRJ in a full and officiall war with Croatia with this but Milosevic did not do it. Some good credit goes to him for that for sure.
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Bereta_Eder
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no proof. These were killed by KLA and NATO bombings for all we know.
And everything the west says is lies since it is the US which orchastrated the whole deal so it can «intervene» amd continue to hold europe by the balls.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Goingonit
Let's review facts:
-There was a Serbian army in Kosovo |
There is an American army in Florida. Does this give me the right to start a terrorist group and start killing solider, police officers, and fellow Floridians who dieagree with my desire for an independent Florida?
quote:
-The KLA was not there prior to the appearance of said army (IIRC) |
Kosovo was part of Serbia since Serb independence from the Ottomans. Why shouldn't there have been a Serb army there? The KLA has been opperating since the early 90s.
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-There are mass graves filled with people in Albanian villages |
To date, not one single mass grave has been found in Kosovo.
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Yes, I know that the KLA kills Serbs. But the Serbs also kill Albanians en masse. |
That statement is unsupported by the evidence. If mass graves had been found, they would have shown the evidence on TV already, rather than have all the investigators slink out of Kosovo. The FBI declared they had found no evidence. The UN declared there had been no genocide. It simply did not happen.
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Also note that the number of people found in mass graves outnumbers the KLA. They weren't all combatants. |
Before the war, there was an attempt to make it appear there had been a massacre at Racek, where a number of Kosovars had been killed in a battle with Serbian police. After the battles was over, the KLA stripped their casualties of weapons and placed them in a ditch outside of town and brought the media in. After teh war, when investigating the ditch, no bullets were found, which means that no one was excuted there.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Natan
So Comrade, I guess you think that the tens of thousands of men sent to Serb camps just magically dissapeared and that the photos of their skulls are just doctored? Or that tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims just left the face of the Earth? |
Yes, and those 50,000 raped women.
This is an interesting piece to read
http://www.balkanpeace.org/press/prs07.shtml
you also have a collection of war crimes to ponder on
here
http://www.balkanpeace.org/wcs/wct/index.shtml
Also this if from a BBC site
Q & A: Counting Kosovo's dead
How many were killed in this year's bitter conflict in Kosovo? The recent figures announced by the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague, Carla del Ponte, are the most accurate given so far, though only partial.
She said United Nations investigators had so far exhumed over 2,100 bodies, though the actual number of ethnic Albanian victims of the conflict may be much higher.
The figures follow controversy in the western media, with some reports claiming the number of victims was much less than Nato sources claimed during the war.
The BBC's South-east Europe analyst, Gabriel Partos, tries to separate fact from fiction over the killings in Kosovo:
How many bodies have been found?
In her 10 November report to the UN Security Council, chief prosecutor Carla del Ponte said 2,108 bodies had been found so far. That figure relates to about one third of the 529 grave sites notified to the ICTY. The remaining two-thirds, along with possible fresh sites, will be investigated in the spring when conditions on the ground make resumption of the work possible.
How much higher is the final death toll likely to be?
It is not possible to make any accurate estimates on the basis of what has been found so far because some of the mass graves yet to be opened up may contain many more - or many fewer - bodies than those exhumed so far. Besides, the ICTY says the investigators have found evidence of tampering with the graves, including the burning or apparent removal of the victims' remains.
What are the estimates?
More than 11,000 deaths have been reported to the ICTY - but only a fifth of these have been confirmed. Other reports are of around 5,000 Kosovar Albanians still missing, now presumed dead. So it may be conjectured that the total numbers - or whatever figure can be established - may be somewhere between 5,000 and 12,000.
What was Nato saying during the conflict?
Nato officials during the conflict were doing their best to drum up public support for the campaign of air strikes against Yugoslavia which was meant to halt and reverse the ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians. They made tough attacks on Belgrade's policies in the region - often using Kosovar Albanian reports which could not be independently verified. But Nato never claimed to have accurate figures for the number of victims.
What about the hundreds of thousands of victims mentioned at Nato briefings?
These figures related to those believed to be missing - some of whom were assumed to be dead. Nato estimates of those missing ranged from 100,000 to more than 400,000 Kosovar Albanians. Many of them were indeed "missing", hiding in forests. But it appears it was closer to a few thousand who were actually killed.
Why does the number of victims matter?
For Nato member states it is important to justify the bombing campaign against Yugoslavia on humanitarian grounds - especially since Nato's own air raids killed civilians, both Kosovar Albanians and Serbs, mostly as a result of pilot error or rockets and bombs going astray. According to Belgrade, hundreds were killed in the Nato strikes. By contrast, opponents of Nato's action want to downplay the level of Serbian atrocities in an attempt to show that the campaign was unnecessary.
Meanwhile, have the killings stopped?
The Nato-led K-FOR peacekeepers have failed to stem the violence since they moved into Kosovo in June. Nato says that of the known victims among the 379 murders over the past five months, ethnic Albanians and Serbs account in almost equal numbers for 270 victims. But given the huge discrepancy between the size of the two communities - Albanians make up over 95 per cent of the population - Serbs now represent a disproportionately high share of the victims. Though on a much smaller scale, the revenge attacks on Kosovar Serbs have taken on the form of ethnic cleansing in reverse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...7000/517168.stm
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15-02-2002 07:44
) - who united the whole country after the war again. But that is ommitted of course. 
, although I dont hesitate to discuss ex yu stuff.
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