25-02-2002 06:04									#151
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MrFun, someone else chose to label me a bigot. If that was what they wanted to call it, then I would not argue the point. But yes, I think DISLIKE and HATE are two very very different things, and ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE WHATSOEVER, dispite several attempts at this. I do not hate gays. I do not fear them. I merely dislike them, and would prefer not to be around them. They kind of gross me out

	25-02-2002 06:05									#152
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Kaak's Initial Post for This Thread:

"I do not like homosexuals.

This said, I would like you all to know that I have come to terms with my bigotry. I do not dislike people based on race, creed, or cultural background. I am not a racist.

I do not like homosexuals.

I do not drink. I do not smoke. I have never been drunk, I have never used any tobacco product, I have never used any drugs.

I do not like homosexuals.

So, overall, I have come to terms with my bigotry. It may be a flaw. If it is a flaw, I am okay with that. I think I am fairly open minded, and generally a good person. I may have A flaw. I am okay with that.

I do not like homosexuals.

In my opinion, it is wrong. It is unnatural, and immoral. This is my opinion. You are welcome to yours, I am welcome to mine. AND, in my opinion, homosexuals are utterly disgusting.


So, to all of the homosexuals out there, I understand if you don't like me. I'm okay with that too. But don't worry! You aren't alone. I don't like VERY FAT people either."

Note the part where Kaak said, "So, overall, I have come to terms with my bigotry."

Do not say other people have labeled you a bigot, Kaak --- you declared yourself one.

	25-02-2002 06:08									#153
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MrFun: I think we would have to more adequately define bigot.

If someone chooses to label me a bigot because I dislike homos because they are homos, then yes it is possible to be a bigot without hate.

If someone requires hate or fear for bigotry, then I am not a bigot, and therefore not qualified to answer

	25-02-2002 07:02									#154
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KAAK: you either are a christian or you arn't. you cannot choose a middle road. If you take your baptism seriously, you need to live up to it. I didn't miss your point at all....i just used your Law against you...a Law you must abide if you claim to be christian at all...
but it seems to me as though you fall into a more nihilistic pattern.

	25-02-2002 07:06									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak As far as the groups you listed, only one has a defining characteristic that is an act. There is nothing that a person does that makes him black. There is nothing a person does that makes him retarded. This is something a person does that makes them gay. To group them all together is a blatant over-generalization.

That is totally not true. You don't have to do anything to be gay. Either you are gay or you aren't, just like either you're black or you aren't. According to current scientific belief, homosexuality is in the genetic makeup. Which means it is not a preferance, it is an orientation. You don't like these people, when you don't realize that that's just what they are, people. I know you're not going Albert Speer on us, but they shouldn't be hated any more than any other person who is different.

quote: I made this thread for a few reasons. One, it was self analysis. I did some thinking, and realized how i felt, and my own inward reactions to it. secondly, I thought it would create an interesting response, which i believe it has. Some people are very angry about the post, and have made illogical, irrational arguments to "show what a fool I am." Kind of funny.

In my opinion, which it is, you are a fool, as is anyone who dislikes another person because of who they are. Personality is one thing. Person is another.

quote: I really do not believe that anyone is perfect. Some people hide there imperfections, and hope that no one will ever notice

Why should someone hide them for their life? Because another person is arrogantly against that?

quote: I am not one of those people. I have posted mine here for everyone to see. So chastize me as you will, could you do the same? Wait, i'm sorry. Sometimes i forget that i am the only imperfect one here.

Sure, here we go: I'm fat. I am 6 foot 1 and 255 pounds. I used to get harrassed everyday because of this fact. What originally made me mad about your post is the last line. I'm able to deal with this fact, and have taken neccessary steps to correct it. For someone to not like be because of how I am pisses me off. It has part to do with girls not liking me "in that way" (which, thankfully, has changed, ). I don't get harrassed about it any more, simply because I have shown that I have confidance and I don't care that someone has a problem with how I look. I find anyone who dislikes fat people shallow and arrogant, which you have shown yourself to be.

quote: Also, if you'll notice from the beginning, I never claimed to be right. I merely stated how i felt. I said then that it was bigotry. While this post may have been intended to illicit a response, it was not to gain acceptance for my opinions, or anything else. If i truly cared what the lot of you thought of me, I would not have posted what I did. I new the consensus of the forums on the matter before i posted, and I new it would draw a lot of fire.

At least you knew what you were getting into. I'm not headstrong with much (well, maybe I am), but THIS is one thing that I will defend to the end.

quote: Hope this cleared things up a little. Love you all Kaak

Guess not.

	25-02-2002 07:07									#156
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin KAAK: you either are a christian or you arn't. you cannot choose a middle road.

Not sure I agree with that. I know quite a few Christians, and they have various degrees of faith in Christianity's tenets and whatever have you. Faith is a continuum, not a discrete value; there are varying degrees of faith, not just "faithful" and "unfaithful."

	25-02-2002 07:08									#157
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin KAAK: you either are a christian or you arn't. you cannot choose a middle road. If you take your baptism seriously, you need to live up to it. I didn't miss your point at all....i just used your Law against you...a Law you must abide if you claim to be christian at all... but it seems to me as though you fall into a more nihilistic pattern.

I hate to defend Kaak, but you are 100% wrong. I claim to be a Christian, and I follow the word of God, but I believe more in the love of God for all than in the laws of the Torah.

The only "you are or you aren't" is athiest.

	25-02-2002 07:10									#158
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i've taken theology here...
the religion that Kaak adheres to espouses this. I know for a fact. Jesus himself says "love him with your whole heart" not half heart..not some part of his heart whenever he feels like it and isn't acting like a prejudiced ****.
live up to your baptism.

	25-02-2002 07:13									#159
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The thing about religion is everybody chooses to interpret it differently, mostly so they can hear what they want to hear.

Arguing about it is pointless, people's faith won't be tested by words from someone who doesn't know them online.

	25-02-2002 07:18									#160
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I like the way Kaak called himself a bigot in the initial post, then complained in other posts that other people have labeled him as a bigot.

Then, when I provided a definition of bigot, he says that he would be a bigot if the definition of bigot did not include hating someone.

Here is the definition.

bigot: an obstinate and intolerant believer in religion, political theory, etc.

	25-02-2002 07:20									#161
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I was baptized Catholic. Thanks, but no.

Just because your lack is wholly doesn't mean our faith isn't. I believe in what I belive fully, with my whole heart. Martin Luther did as well. As did Brigham Young. So should I found my own religion?

I've taken Astronomy. That doesn't make me a rocket scientist.

	25-02-2002 07:20									#162
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What? No one liked my French Joke? I was just trying to lighten the mood.

Devilmunchkin
I must have woke up (more) stupid today. Are you bashing Christians, or just Kaak? I'd like to think I'm a Good Christian, and I certainly don't hold anything against Homosexuals in general.

However over,
The "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" can burn in Hell for all I care.

I lived in San Francisco 4 or so years ago when they rose to prominence. As such, my respect for the "Gay Rights" movement has dropped like a rock since then. Any "Gay/Lesbian/Trans Rights Group" that has street fairs, dressed as nuns, in front of the Archdiocse of San Francisco on Easter, is bullshit in my opinion.

What's even more damning is I've yet to see any other prominant Gay Group come out and say "Uhm...maybe this is just a little wrong?"


EDIT: A link that elaborates on the event I mentioned."Street Fair"

Last edited by Lonestar on 25-02-2002 at 07:25

	25-02-2002 07:21									#163
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MrFun: Semantic arguments are foolish. If Kaak calls himself a bigot but doesn't hate (but instead dislikes) those whom he is bigoted against, then so be it.

	25-02-2002 07:25									#164
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lonestar: no..just kaak.
i will agree that oftentimes the gay movement takes things to an extreme. BUT, you can't sit there and judge every gay person for it, just like i will not judge every christian. EVen if the majority of christians (not saying the do. hypothetical situation) would enslave those different, i still would judge on a singular basis.

	25-02-2002 07:26									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar I lived in San Francisco 4 or so years ago when they rose to prominence. As such, my respect for the "Gay Rights" movement has dropped like a rock since then.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3715/gay_pride_parade.html

	25-02-2002 07:30									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo "I deny that this social group is anything but sizeable. " See, there are two negatives. You're actually saying that there are a lot of gays.

Now that was a typo... remember Walter Mondale in the 84 elections? He changed his ways so many times... Reagan finally renamed flip-flopping to fritz-floping. Change the word deny to admit. It was a mistake on my part.

	25-02-2002 07:32									#167
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quote: Originally posted by devilmunchkin lonestar: no..just kaak. i will agree that oftentimes the gay movement takes things to an extreme. BUT, you can't sit there and judge every gay person for it, just like i will not judge every christian. EVen if the majority of christians (not saying the do. hypothetical situation) would enslave those different, i still would judge on a singular basis.

Well, as I said, what made me really angry is that I have not heard of any Prominant Gay group (hell, any outside my old HS Debate Club) come out and say "What the SoPD are doing/did is bad."

Therefore, I can only come to the conclusion that the great majority of the "Gay Rights" movement is passively supporting Catholic-Bashing.

I would like to think (The Unitarians come to mind, but I have seperate problems with them. Call me a dirty Baptist, I know yer itchin' to DevilMunchkin ) some Christian groups are a bit more vocal about following Jesus' example than others by not labeling a whole sexual-orientation group as evil.

Unfortunatly, I haven't seen that in the Gay community. Not in the two years I spent in SF, the one year in Northern VA, and the past 1.5 or so at Texas A&M.

	25-02-2002 07:33									#168
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger MrFun: Semantic arguments are foolish. If Kaak calls himself a bigot but doesn't hate (but instead dislikes) those whom he is bigoted against, then so be it.

I humbly disagree.

I am learning in my Argumentation and Debate course, that in order to carry out an effective argument, all participants need to be clear on the definitions of the important words that are used in discussions.

How can you hope to have an effective argument without being clear on concrete definitions?

	25-02-2002 07:34									#169
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger http://www.theonion.com/onion3715/gay_pride_parade.html

I've seen that before.



Hell, I've got both Onion books.

	25-02-2002 07:35									#170
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I shouldn't tell this to you guys... but I had the gay teen club in my school switch location because I was such a terror. They compared me to Castano (I think that was his name) leader of the Colombian AUC, now that is wrong...

	25-02-2002 07:35									#171
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*sigh*
DM: I believe in God and jesus with my entire heart. That does not mean that I am a super christian. I do not make it to church every sunday, and I do sin. That does not change the fact that I believe, or that I am a christian.

Emp: 6'1" 255 is not "VERY FAT". You should not take offense to that, as the group did not include you. sorry you were offended.

MrFun: you provided *a* definition of bigotry. Definitions are something that are heavily debated on this forum. This is one argument I didn't feel worth the time or effort to get into.

quote: I like the way Kaak called himself a bigot in the initial post, then complained in other posts that other people have labeled him as a bigot.

1. someone else called me a bigot in another thread.
2. I wasn't complaining. Infact, I ran with it.
3. again, semantic arguments are pointless. If someone wants me to be a bigot because of my opinion, then I am a bigot to that person. It doesn't really matter to me.

And just a little secret DM: just because you have taken theology here doesn't mean that I have the same beliefs or practices of your professors, and certainly not those that you, the little atheist, *think* i should have...

	25-02-2002 07:38									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I shouldn't tell this to you guys... but I had the gay teen club in my school switch location because I was such a terror. They compared me to Castano (I think that was his name) leader of the Colombian AUC, now that is wrong...

I thought you know no gay people in Argentina?

Can you at least keep your simple stories straight? (No pun intended)

	25-02-2002 07:40									#173
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I am learning in my Argumentation and Debate course, that in order to carry out an effective argument, all participants need to be clear on the definitions of the important words that are used in discussions.

Sure, but Kaak had a different meaning of "bigot" in mind when he called himself a bigot--he professes to dislike homosexuals, not hate them. You then proceeded to whip out your dictionary in order to prove that Kaak actually hates homosexuals despite his claims to the contrary, since "bigot" connotes hate (and not mere dislike).

There is no need to argue whether or not "bigot" implies hate or simply dislike. Kaak introduced the term, and since his definition more or less adheres to the dictionary's definition (the difference is a matter of degree, nothing more), his definition stands--for the purposes of this thread, "bigot" implies dislike, not hatred.

	25-02-2002 07:43									#174
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quote: I believe in God and jesus with my entire heart. That does not mean that I am a super christian. I do not make it to church every sunday, and I do sin. That does not change the fact that I believe, or that I am a christian.

it is in your faith to strive NOT to sin. YOu are supposed to work through your god, apparently, to make yourself a better person. Wasn't it you who was in an earlier thread using the baptist religion to say that homosexuals should no go to baylor????
Or are you just resigned to know that no matter how hard you try you "will still Sin."...so you just won't try?
you admit you arn't perfect.
therefore, this view is an imperfection in your eyes, at least from waht i have gleaned.
theology aside, since you're taking this middle road:
what kind of bastard are you that you can live with yourself like this? people like you DISGUST me. yes, i'm very upset. I saddens me that people like you...that judge a person on one characteristic (that isn't bad to begin with. it's equal to your heterosexuality. being someone who took psych for 7 semesters, shouldn't you know this??) alone...... exist. Despite your IQ, you've thrown away your education and right now, i view you as subhuman. i'm very disgusted with you.

	25-02-2002 07:53									#175
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quote: Wasn't it you who was in an earlier thread using the baptist religion to say that homosexuals should no go to baylor????

Nope, I was using baptist religion to say that baylor, being a baptist university, had the right to say that they do not want them here. Or any other group. But then again, baylor is private, so it can do what the hell it wants...

I think tho, if i was gay, I would have gone to UT. oh well...

quote: what kind of bastard are you that you can live with yourself like this? people like you DISGUST me.

Are you catagorizing? Are you expressing disdain on a group of people because of the way they feel? You bigot

Seriously, I am amazed that, going to baylor, you find me so horrible. After all, i'm not one of the ones who, on a staurday night, will go get sloppy drunk, do stupid things, sleep through church, get up about 11:30, take a quick shower, put on nice clothes, grab their bible and go to memorial for lunch.

You are surrounded who are much discrimating and bigotrous than me, and yet it is I who disgusts you...I thought you said you were a watcher? if so, you must not pay attention...

	25-02-2002 07:54									#176
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oh, and as for living with myself, I find it quite easy to do, and enjoyable!

	25-02-2002 07:58									#177
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Don't worry Kaak, I don't hate you because you're a dirty Bigot.

I hate you because you are a Baylor Bear.

Does this make me a Bigot? No, I like the Baylor wimmim very much.

My head hurts. I'm off to watch taped A&M games.

::wanders off singing "Aggie War Hymn":::

	25-02-2002 07:58									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I shouldn't tell this to you guys... but I had the gay teen club in my school switch location because I was such a terror.

I don't believe you. Unless they did it out of shear annoyance and contempt for a total moron such as yourself, I don't think that they did. I wouldn't be "proud" as you are because it wasn't because you're better, its cause you're a whiny little brat who didn't get the right treatment as a child.

	25-02-2002 08:00									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak After all, i'm not one of the ones who, on a staurday night, will go get sloppy drunk, do stupid things, sleep through church, get up about 11:30, take a quick shower, put on nice clothes, grab their bible and go to memorial for lunch.

Dude, that's what college is all about. You're wasting your life, man.

	25-02-2002 08:01									#180
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@lonestar

Don't make me bust out that fearsome "good ol' baylor line"

wait...we haven't won a football game against y'all since like 1912. I guess it isn't that fearsome