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Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:06
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#121 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
And it has the potential of screwing a lot of people over.


Then let it screw people over in the short run. In the long run, they will learn the language.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:08 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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#122 Report this post to a moderator
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Again, you're assuming that everyone can learn the language adequately.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:23
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#123 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
My point was, how am I supposed to compare the dual to single-language policy with only the dual figure?


If you're going to assert that the cost differences between the two systems isn't that signifigant, I assume that you have some basis for comparison other than what was provided.

quote:
Learn the meaning of "<" before ranting about "prejudice."


Learn the meaning of the word paternalism before ranting at me unless you have access to information that compares the proportion of hispanics v. other foreign minorities are not literate in English.

quote:
Explain.


According to the LA Times, the Los Angeles City Council prints all its public notices in the six foreign languages spoken there in addition to English, which doubles its annual printing budget to $1 million.

Edit:
quote:
Again, you're assuming that everyone can learn the language adequately.


Why are you assuming that one can not reach a literate level when given incentive to?

Last edited by DinoDoc on 09-03-2002 at 08:35

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:35 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
If you're going to assert that the cost differences between the two systems isn't that signifigant, I assume that you have some basis for comparison other than what was provided.


You asserted that the cost difference is "tens of billions of dollars." And you used Canada's figure to back it up. It's up to you to back that up.

Honestly, I don't know what the figure is, exactly. I imagine that it isn't too significant.

quote:
Learn the meaning of the word paternalism before ranting at me unless you have access to information that compares the proportion of hispanics v. other foreign minorities are not literate in English.


What are you on about? I wrote <3%. I only set an upper bound, which you admitted yourself.

quote:
According to the LA Times, the Los Angeles City Council prints all its public notices in the six foreign languages spoken there in addition to English, which doubles its annual printing budget to $1 million.


Source?

First of all, we're only dealing with two languages federally. Secondly, the extra cost is incurred in coming up with the designs. Since we're dealing with far more copies, we can reasonably expect that the cost to copy would be far, far more signficant. So six languages federally would logically produce a far less than 100% increase.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:38 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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#125 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Why are you assuming that one can not reach a literate level when given incentive to?


Because it isn't happening already.

People obviously have a great incentive to learn English, due to the prospect of higher wages, but they do not do so.

And legal/tax jargon goes a bit past a level of minimal literacy.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:43
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#126 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Because it isn't happening already.


It is the native-language support they recieve that retards thier aquisition of a new language. Source: U.S. Department of Labor, Monthly Labor Review, December 1992

Sorry, no link as far as I know.

Edit: Nevermind.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1992/12/art1full.pdf

Last edited by DinoDoc on 09-03-2002 at 08:54

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
King
NYC
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 08:53
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
I believe one of the great things about humanity is its diversity.

Language is one of the components of any culture in any part of the world. So, isn't a country that declares one language to be official basically saying that it does not appreciate humanity's diversity to some extent?


If you take a group of people and teach them all the same language they will always be more united than a group of people that dont all speak the same language. What do you prefer? Unity or diversity?

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 09:43 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia


If you take a group of people and teach them all the same language they will always be more united than a group of people that dont all speak the same language. What do you prefer? Unity or diversity?


I will take both of them and balance them to each other.

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
King
NYC
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun


I will take both of them and balance them to each other.


How are you going to do that? Either people speak the same language or they dont, theres no middle ground.

Sorry, but when youre talking about language its either one or the other.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 09:52 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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#130 Report this post to a moderator
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I think you can have unity between people who are bilingual and people who are monolingual.

Many immigrants realize the importance of learning English when they arrive to the United States. We do not have to declare an official language to compel them to do so.

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
King
NYC
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
I think you can have unity between people who are bilingual and people who are monolingual.


No you cant. Unless there is a common language there will always be tension and misunderstanding.

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 10:09
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nam umus linguae, uniusque moris regnum imbecille et fragilum

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Zhu Yuanzhang
nam umus linguae, uniusque moris regnum imbecille et fragilum


Latin died as a widely spoken language centuries ago.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-03-2002 10:25
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#134 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Again, you're assuming that everyone can learn the language adequately.


No, I just simply don't care. Like Germans don't care if Arabs can learn German adequatly, they still have too.

quote:
People obviously have a great incentive to learn English, due to the prospect of higher wages, but they do not do so.


The incentive, I think is too low. They can get by (at a very low level, albeit) now. You remove that net, and then they'll have to learn English.

 
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