08-03-2002 22:33									#1
	Iowa proposes making english the official state language Full PM-box? Change here!

http://www.dmregister.com/news/stor...934/654331.html

Should the US make english the official language?

I think they should. Its too easy nowadays for people to get by without speaking english in this country. Everyone should speak a common language otherwise how will we understand each other?

	08-03-2002 22:44									#2
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Reels in shock that a thread title has the word "Iowa" in it.

But seriously, that article seemed like a good article -- gave input from immigrants with some on both sides of the issue.

But I am against making English an official language, even if people will not be forced to speak it. It's just not necessary.

	08-03-2002 23:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun But I am against making English an official language, even if people will not be forced to speak it. It's just not necessary.

I think it could help prevent confusion in some cases. For example people who want to have political debates in spanish would be shut down.

	08-03-2002 23:02									#4
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I find it sad that the Iowans would bow to pressure to replace their beautiful and poetic native tongue, Iowanese, with English.

	08-03-2002 23:23									#5
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Does mean that Iowa textbooks will have more u's in them from now on?

	08-03-2002 23:35									#6
	Jingoistic bullshit... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: For example people who want to have political debates in spanish would be shut down.

What the hell's your problem with politicians trying to communicate with their consitituents?

quote: Its too easy nowadays for people to get by without speaking english in this country. Everyone should speak a common language otherwise how will we understand each other?

If it's "too easy" to get by without speaking English, why do non-English speakers need to understand English?

	08-03-2002 23:46									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo What the hell's your problem with politicians trying to communicate with their consitituents?

Becuase thier constituents should be able to understand the language of the realm. Which quite frankly in Iowa is English.

	08-03-2002 23:49									#8
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quote: Should the US make english the official language?

	08-03-2002 23:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo If it's "too easy" to get by without speaking English, why do non-English speakers need to understand English?

So that segregation (by choice) based on language does not cause social problems?

	08-03-2002 23:56									#10
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But if it's "too easy," it should be definition not cause social problems.

If you outlaw Spanish political debates, older Hispanics who haven't learned English aren't well-informed. So they aren't represented in the gov't.

	08-03-2002 23:59									#11
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If you want to discuss the US at large, we could discuss the instances in which the founding fathers of the US specifically rejected a multilingual government. Or you could give me a real reason why the government should not follow the example set forth by others and declare an offical language?

	09-03-2002 00:04									#12
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Because it undermines democracy. People who don't speak English become forcefully excluded from having representation in the gov't.

What about the First Amendment? What's the legal justification for cracking down on non-English political debates? Nonetheless, this is a moral criticism much more than a legal criticism. Precedence carries no weight.

	09-03-2002 00:07									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo But if it's "too easy," it should be definition not cause social problems.

Its "too easy" for many kids in ghettos to start dealing drugs to make money instead of getting a job. Just because something is easy doesn't make it right or good for society. (Extreme example granted).

	09-03-2002 00:10									#14
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Well, isn't the main issue with Spanish-speaking folks? So, how about making your nation bilingual? Have English and Spanish as official languages, all people learning to speak at least rudimentary English and Spanish. Considering all them Mexicans coming to your country, it wouldn't hurt yal'l one bit to do so.

Besides, it's time you furrinurs got to taste the same feeling Finnish students get in our Swedish classes.

	09-03-2002 00:11									#15
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I advocate drug legalization, BTW.

But you're missing the context. Cali was saying that it's too easy to get by without learning English. Surely, that should imply that not learning English isn't significantly affecting them...

	09-03-2002 00:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo People who don't speak English become forcefully excluded from having representation in the gov't.

I wasn't aware that the Netherlands, to pick one example, qualified as being undemocratic in your opinion.

quote: What about the First Amendment?

The 1st Ammendment contains no bar to the Federal government declaring a state language.

	09-03-2002 00:17									#17
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Um... that's out of context.

Having a state language can imply nothing or a whole lot of things.

The former is nothing more than a jingoistic gesture, particularly in a multi-lingual society that the US is today. I have no substancial objections to it.

I do have objections with certain implications, such as the one that Cali suggested, that is, if the state wants to outlaw non-English political debates (some ******* over here is *****ing about Spanish debates, BTW).

	09-03-2002 00:22									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Um... that's out of context.

Of course it is. I'm not particularly interested in argueing about Spanish language debates. The larger issue at hand is what interests me.

BTW, it lookis like Iowa isn't the only state to go down this road. Here's a judicial opinion in support of making English the official language of Utah.

	09-03-2002 00:26									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I But you're missing the context. Cali was saying that it's too easy to get by without learning English. Surely, that should imply that not learning English isn't significantly affecting them...

Not in everyday life directly, but presumably Spanish parents would send there kids to Spanish schools, watch Spanish television, play sports with friends who are predominantly Spanish. If Spanish speakers have no real contact with English speakers you will end up with a divided community, which surely can not be good for society.

	09-03-2002 00:31									#20
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I'm not aware of any of these "Spanish schools" in the US in any significant numbers. And most Hispanics who can't speak English probably can't afford to send their kids to private schools.

And you (and Dino) haven't specified what you believe should be the implications of a state language.

	09-03-2002 00:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo And you (and Dino) haven't specified what you believe should be the implications of a state language.

Read the judicial opinion I linked to.

	09-03-2002 00:35									#22
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I'm going to eat in 5 minutes. I have no time to read a 15 page article.

Summarize it.

	09-03-2002 01:20									#23
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I would reply, but Sagacious Dolphin has been doing such a great job of arguing my side I wont bother....

	09-03-2002 02:00									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild I find it sad that the Iowans would bow to pressure to replace their beautiful and poetic native tongue, Iowanese, with English.

You are tooooooo funny.

	09-03-2002 02:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm not aware of any of these "Spanish schools" in the US in any significant numbers. And most Hispanics who can't speak English probably can't afford to send their kids to private schools.

Well if Hispanic kids are going to a school that teaches in Engish would it not mean they are learning English - thus making English the official language would not affect them at all anyway?

quote: And you (and Dino) haven't specified what you believe should be the implications of a state language.

I am only giving answers to your questions, I personally see no need to make an official language, but I do see a strong case for promotion of a single common language that all can speak. Its for the good of everyone.

	09-03-2002 02:24									#26
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This is my latest "Letter To The Editor" at the Dallas News.
It appears in today's edition.
Yes, I'm published often, on a variety of topics.




Needed: An English-speaking workforce

What follows are some relevant points in an update on my job search, which is nearing a year in duration. I'm sure they're shared by many.

Employers, get off the fence in your hiring! In February I made it to final four, but then failed to get to the final two, on a job I initially applied for in September. While I understand a company wants to make a well-informed and correct choice, the time being taken is ludicrous.

I also echo a recent Hispanic reader's letter to the editor chastising the speaking of Spanish in Texas ("I am an American," Letters, Feb. 21, by Lyz Ojeda). For reference, I cite the upcoming Job Fair to be held at Fair Park. In bold and colored letters is the notice, "Bilingual Applicants Encouraged to Attend." That's rubbish!

Let me emphasize, I have absolutely nothing against the Hispanic community at all. My point is the same as the noted letter: that all persons working in the United States should be speaking English.

If Dallas, and Texas, and the United States want to recover economically, then hiring decisions have to be made with more speed, and it needs to be with an English-speaking workforce.

SlowwHand, Richardson, Texas

	09-03-2002 02:48									#27
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English should be the official language. This would encourage more people to learn English as quick as they can. This wasn't a problem earlier in the century, when immigrants knew they had to learn English to function.

Now you have bilingual classes (English as a 2nd language) where the kids learn both languages, and don't really learn either. They NEED English in this nation, they don't need Spanish, Indian, or any other language. They severly limit themselves.

And, of course, the economic argument. Once the official language is English, you save tons on goverment documentation.

	09-03-2002 02:50									#28
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Enforcing an official language on the populace by reducing the services available in their native tongue isn't the way to go, Imran.

	09-03-2002 02:59									#29
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quote: Well if Hispanic kids are going to a school that teaches in Engish would it not mean they are learning English - thus making English the official language would not affect them at all anyway?

I'll repeat what I wrote to Dino:

Having a state language can imply nothing or a whole lot of things.

The former is nothing more than a jingoistic gesture, particularly in a multi-lingual society that the US is today. I have no substancial objections to it.

I do have objections with certain implications, such as the one that Cali suggested, that is, if the state wants to outlaw non-English political debates (some a$$hole over here is *****ing about Spanish debates, BTW).

quote: I am only giving answers to your questions, I personally see no need to make an official language

How can I respond back if I don't know what you're advocating?

quote: but I do see a strong case for promotion of a single common language that all can speak.

What does "promoting" a language imply?

quote: Employers, get off the fence in your hiring! In February I made it to final four, but then failed to get to the final two, on a job I initially applied for in September. While I understand a company wants to make a well-informed and correct choice, the time being taken is ludicrous.

Do you have reason to believe that the long delay is predominantly due to processing Spanish applications?

quote: If Dallas, and Texas, and the United States want to recover economically, then hiring decisions have to be made with more speed, and it needs to be with an English-speaking workforce.

Surely you must recognize that kicking out everyone who doesn't speak English adequatley would be extraordinarily disastrous to our economy. Not only would it eliminate much of our manual labor, it would also eliminate a good portion of our high tech industry.

And why shouldn't you learn Spanish instead? Maybe we should kick out all non-Spanish speakers because having multiple languages is supposedly bad for the economy.

	09-03-2002 03:03									#30
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Two different points, Ramo.
Congratulations on focusing on the wrong one.
Maybe you need remedial English? I've taught that, and could make myself available.


Maybe I should learn Spanish? Uh, no. That's the point you can't seem to grasp.
Lets have 100 dialects posted along streets and in cafeterias.
No. You want to be here, learn the damned language.
I'd expect to learn Spanish if I ever moved to Mexico.