17-03-2002 14:11									#1
	Galileo -- Why? Got spare money?

Can somebody please explain to me the advantages of Galileo and why Europe is willing to spend $3B on it? Who's pushing it and why?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/1875177.stm

	17-03-2002 14:14									#2
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Doesn't the Euro military depend on the GPS system? They could be worried the US will **** with it at a critical time (like when the American invasion of France gets underway).

	17-03-2002 14:15									#3
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The Americans who are speaking out against it are saying basically the same thing, it seems.

	17-03-2002 14:23									#4
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The fact that it is independent of the control of another nation is probably reason enough.

	17-03-2002 22:27									#5
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According to newsreports here, Galileo is said to be superior to the GPS system. I'll see if I can get some stats on that...

	17-03-2002 23:01									#6
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http://www.esa.int/export/esaSA/GGG...vigation_0.html

By offering dual frequencies as standard, however, Galileo will deliver real-time positioning accuracy down to the metre range, which is unprecedented for a publicly available system.



The other, and biggest reason, is that Europe doesn't want to be dependent on a system that is controlled by the Pentagon. And that is why so many American officials, including Wolfowitz, have expressed a "concern" about Galileo. The hardliners in the American governement and military don't want Europe, or others, to become more independent from the US, and develop high tech systems beyond American control.

In response to Wolfowitz "concerns", French President Jacques Chirac urged development of Galileo to ensure that Europe doesn't become a "vassal" of the U.S. (from cnn.com)

	17-03-2002 23:42									#7
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse They could be worried the US will **** with it at a critical time (like when the American invasion of France gets underway).

That's listed as a five hour opperation. Do you really think the invasion of France will get bogged down enough for control of the GPS to become a factor?

	17-03-2002 23:49									#8
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Dino: Don't worry. I think the French will have installed a "surrender" button on the control panel.

	18-03-2002 00:08									#9
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OK, checking the specs, it seems like they're spending this kind of coin to go from a ~4 meter mean error to a 1 meter mean error (GPS has sub-1 meter resolution, but only for licensed and military users). Are there any big applications that would require a 1 meter mean error?

Throw in some anti-militarism, some vague threat that the Pentagon would turn them off or would start charging money for it, and all of the sudden you have a scientific make-work project dealing with 30 year old technology.

	18-03-2002 00:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That's listed as a five hour opperation. Do you really think the invasion of France will get bogged down enough for control of the GPS to become a factor?

you better be carful they have moree nukers than anuyone else in eyrroepe


they muight seelll some to saddamn

	18-03-2002 00:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Assur they muight seelll some to saddamn

I'd be suprised if they haven't sold him weapons in addition to thier under the table oil deals.

To all: Is the jump from a 4-5 meter area to a meter area of resolution really that big a deal?

	18-03-2002 00:25									#12
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Dinodoc: the stated accuracy is 15 meters, but in actually (and depending on the antenna, apparently), the mean error is ~4-5 meters. That's why I edited my post.

	18-03-2002 00:28									#13
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Dan, that just made the improvement seem less signifigant.

	18-03-2002 00:59									#14
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Well, the numbers are what they are.

3.4 meters now v. 1 meter in 8 or so years. Is it worth the deployment costs of $3 billion + replacement costs + scientific opportunity costs?

" They could be worried the US will **** with it at a critical time (like when the American invasion of France gets underway)."

KH: The US could jam Galileo just as easily as it could/does its own GPS system.

Last edited by DanS on 18-03-2002 at 01:09

	18-03-2002 01:21									#15
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We need it so WE can spy on your business transactions for a change.

Echelon!

	18-03-2002 01:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 We need it so we can spy on your business transactions for a change.

That could be an excuse to throw the money away except for the fact that it doesn't do that.

	18-03-2002 01:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That could be an excuse to throw the money away except for the fact that it doesn't do that.

But of course it doesn't

	18-03-2002 01:54									#18
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Echelon costs a whole heluva lot more than $3 billion, I assure you.

But this has little to do with Echelon.

	18-03-2002 01:58									#19
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Do it! It looks cool!

	18-03-2002 02:02									#20
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Another thing worth mentioning is the plethora of national sattelites which are out there crossing the earth's orbit.

Greece by itself will have 2 cutting edge military/communications sattelites by 2004.

Hook up all the national european sattelites and you have a network that only dreams can match

	18-03-2002 02:08									#21
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BTW about Echelon, if Britain, BRITAIN, HELLO BRITAIN? decides to close down all your infastructrure in its soil (the only european country which has accepted her soil to bu used as base for the US Echelion) your system will become much more blind in what regards Europe

There was an official research about this done by the European Parliement.

	18-03-2002 02:12									#22
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I agree, shut it down. But I think it is some kind of joint project. Personally I think our attention should be turned to projects European rather than our 'loose cannon' allies the US.

	18-03-2002 02:13									#23
	It isn't in Britain's nature to openly disagree with the US. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Stop trying to jack the thread, Moneypenny.

	18-03-2002 02:17									#24
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how is this a thread jackkking mississipian middle aged secretary?
we are talking satelites - expand your horizons

	18-03-2002 02:21									#25
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 how is this a thread jackkking mississipian middle aged secretary?

If you are going to try your hand at insulting me, it might do you good to spell your insults correctly.

	18-03-2002 02:23									#26
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If you are going to try your hand at insulting me, it might do you good to spell your insults correctly.

touchy - touchy
(and grammatically sensitive no less )

edit: ok sorry about the "mississipian"

	18-03-2002 02:31									#27
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There is another factor: charge-of-work to European Space Industry, one of few technologic fields where Europe is now dominant.

Many times the countries protect theirs industries with a 'technical more advanced regulation' that have few aventages. For example, there was the Law-A, Law-U in Telecommunication

But I think that Galileo has enough adventages to do it.

(Sorry for my bad english)

	18-03-2002 02:43									#28
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yaroslav: your English is fine.

"one of few technologic fields where Europe is now dominant"

Europe, minus Russia, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan is near the bottom of space technology--about 1/3 of the flights that the US does. Galileo would represent about half of all ESA flights, if they are to have a 30-satellite constellation by 2008.

	18-03-2002 02:44									#29
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quote: Originally posted by yaroslav But I think that Galileo has enough adventages to do it.

Such as? The ~2.4 meter difference between the two systems hardly seems like enough of an improvement to justify the billions needed to instal it.

paiktis22: Mississippian!!!! Stupid boy lover.

	18-03-2002 02:47									#30
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What do number of flights have to do with technological superiority?