18-03-2002 02:48									#31
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Such as be no dependent on EE.UU

Don't miss my mind: I think that EE.UU and EU will be allies, but EU can be some-what more independet with this...
Also, our tech-related industry will be grateful...

	18-03-2002 03:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc paiktis22: Mississippian!!!! Stupid boy lover.

Oh that's great! Just because I don't know how to spell that damn Mississippi's burning or something, not only am I stupid but I also have a funcy for boys!

Great work there Monneypenny

	18-03-2002 03:07									#33
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 not only am I stupid but I also have a funcy for boys!

I thought that was the standard insult for Athenians.

	18-03-2002 03:08									#34
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paiktis: A lot, silly. On its face, it means that yaroslav's perception about Europe's space technology dominance has little connection with reality.

In fact, Galileo could represent to the EU/Canada what the space station represents to the US--a great white elephant that sucks up too high a %-age of the space budgets. There are a lot of things that Europe could do with this money that would help y'all make a mark in space technology. Instead, y'all want to spend it on 30 year old tech. I'm asking why the decision was made.

	18-03-2002 03:14									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I thought that was the standard insult for Athenians.

Maybe so in 3000 B.C. Now the insults have grown much worse

DanS,
I still fail to see the connection between number of flights and technological superiority... I mean Columbia could take on and off as many times as it needed, how does that necessairily translates to contniuous advancement of techs?


About the 30 year old tech I'm afaird I only have your word for it

As to why it is being constructed I think that taking off from the reliance to US space is something that is indeed important.


BTW ESA is used for commercial reasons only. Artemis just puts satellites in orbit.

	18-03-2002 03:28									#36
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"As to why it is being constructed I think that taking off from the reliance to US space is something that is indeed important."

But it doesn't do that! It's a bogus argument! Read above where I said that the US--with current tech--could jam Galileo, just as we can can and do with GPS. You are just as reliant on the good graces of the US, if push came to shove.

	18-03-2002 03:29									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS paiktis: A lot, silly. On its face, it means that yaroslav's perception about Europe's space technology dominance has little connection with reality.

Well, I'm speaking of satellites launches. I think that Europa has more market percentage than USA and this has to have a reason not?

But, as always, I can be wrong.

European space technology needs more funds and more political support. One of the things that I envy from USA is the importance that their politicals put on technology...

[When in the last post EE.UU I was refering USA. Sorry, in spanish EE.UU=USA]

	18-03-2002 03:31									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS But it doesn't do that! It's a bogus argument! Read above where I said that the US--with current tech--could jam Galileo, just as we can can and do with GPS.

That is indeed bad

Mind you I know next to nothing on the issue but having the infastructure there and then imrpove on it seems to me better than just having void.

I mean you can build on a system from the moment you have it up and running and I wouldn;t exclude the ultimate combination of all european national satelites into one big ass network. (I think they ony thing that prevents it for the time being is that military/security remains on national level).

	18-03-2002 03:31									#39
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"I think that Europa has more market percentage than USA and this has to have a reason żnot?"

No, Europe doesn't have more market percentage than the US, if Russia isn't considered as part of Europe. As stated above, it's much less.

	18-03-2002 08:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DanS KH: The US could jam Galileo just as easily as it could/does its own GPS system.

Nope; it doesn't have to jam its own GPS system; it just has to start using a different encryption code. This retains usage for US military, but not for anybody else. Having a separate system means that the US has to commit some act of war to restrict access. What if, God forbid, Turkey attacks Greece. US sides with Turkey, EU with Greece. US shuts down GPS for non-cleared (non-US/Turkish forces). US might do this but not be willing to start jamming EU sattelites' signals (which may or may not be possible, BTW) because that would constitute an AOW against owners of Galileo.

US seems to be worried that Galileo won't obey them, so this is obviously an important issue to Washington.

	18-03-2002 08:34									#41
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quote: In fact, Galileo could represent to the EU/Canada...

Where does it say we'll be spending money on it?

	18-03-2002 08:54									#42
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You guys are an ESA cooperating member, so I guess you'll pay some CDN$...

"What if, God forbid, Turkey attacks Greece. US sides with Turkey, EU with Greece. US shuts down GPS for non-cleared (non-US/Turkish forces). US might do this but not be willing to start jamming EU sattelites' signals (which may or may not be possible, BTW) because that would constitute an AOW against owners of Galileo."

Interesting scenario, but you're not taking into account how it works.

The US can narrowjam in the theater of operations, like we're doing in Afghanistan. We don't need to do anything nasty to the sats. Either way, it's GAME OVER for Galileo.

	18-03-2002 08:56									#43
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Either way, it's still an AOW. The US might be breaking contracts if it cuts service to Greece, but that's entirely different than interfering with somebody else's property. Remember that I'm not suggesting that the EU or US are belligerents; they're simply "interested parties".

	18-03-2002 08:58									#44
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quote: You guys are an ESA cooperating member, so I guess you'll pay some CDN$...

I doubt we've signed on for a fixed percentage of all projects. I could be wrong, but I'd assume that we get to decide on a case-by-case basis.

	18-03-2002 09:10									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The US can narrowjam in the theater of operations, like we're doing in Afghanistan. We don't need to do anything nasty to the sats. Either way, it's GAME OVER for Galileo.

Maybe, maybe not. Also don't forget electronic warfare is a two-way street. You can jam them, they can jam you.

	18-03-2002 09:15									#46
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Interestingly, the unrestricted GPS system has demonstrated a mean error of about 3.5 meters, but the following article says that Galileo will only be accurate to 5-10 meters. Will the real Galileo please come forward?

http://europa.eu.int/comm/research/...-06-tra01d.html

KH: I think you guys ponied up some of the early money for Galileo. Watch what they're doing with your CDN$!!!

	18-03-2002 09:19									#47
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I think it's worthwhile for the same reason that the recently proposed Canada-Cuba unification is: it comes in at just about a "10" on the American Piss-Off scale.

	18-03-2002 09:22									#48
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See, you guys who think that the ROW's attitude toward the US is caused by "jealousy" are really missing the point. To the extent that there is undeserved antagonism, it's brought about by the same perverse urge that makes little boys throw rocks at hornet nests.

	18-03-2002 09:28									#49
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You guys are welcome to unify with Cuba. Have at it.

It would be great for the Canadian ice cube industry.

	18-03-2002 09:41									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus http://www.esa.int/export/esaSA/GGG...vigation_0.html By offering dual frequencies as standard, however, Galileo will deliver real-time positioning accuracy down to the metre range, which is unprecedented for a publicly available system.

GPS gives that kind of accuracy...oh you're not a US military user. (mean kid on Simpson's voice) HAAHAA!

	18-03-2002 09:47									#51
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Either way, it's still an AOW. The US might be breaking contracts if it cuts service to Greece, but that's entirely different than interfering with somebody else's property. Remember that I'm not suggesting that the EU or US are belligerents; they're simply "interested parties".

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? I thought you were a smart boy. Since when is it an AOW if we mess with our sattilites?

Don't worry though. They 51st state and Mont Tremblant and the stone-sack Brits will be taken care of...

	18-03-2002 09:48									#52
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Galileo = not your sattelite.

EDIT: Ah. You misread. My point is that ****ing with your own transmissions is not an AOW, while ****ing with the EU's would be.

	18-03-2002 09:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Nope; it doesn't have to jam its own GPS system; it just has to start using a different encryption code. This retains usage for US military, but not for anybody else. Having a separate system means that the US has to commit some act of war to restrict access. What if, God forbid, Turkey attacks Greece. US sides with Turkey, EU with Greece. US shuts down GPS for non-cleared (non-US/Turkish forces). US might do this but not be willing to start jamming EU sattelites' signals (which may or may not be possible, BTW) because that would constitute an AOW against owners of Galileo. US seems to be worried that Galileo won't obey them, so this is obviously an important issue to Washington.

And what if little pigs fly out of Lancer's firm, tender, responsive young ass?

	18-03-2002 09:50									#54
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 BTW about Echelon, if Britain, BRITAIN, HELLO BRITAIN? decides to close down all your infastructrure in its soil (the only european country which has accepted her soil to bu used as base for the US Echelion) your system will become much more blind in what regards Europe There was an official research about this done by the European Parliement.

Brits like us...and they have stone sacks...unlike the rest of the soft Continent...

	18-03-2002 09:51									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GP And what if little pigs fly out of Lancer's firm, tender, responsive young ass?

That's drunk talk. Sweet, sweet drunk talk.

	18-03-2002 09:51									#56
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And what would the US do if it had to rely on EU satellites for GPS?

You're damned straight they'd put up their own network. EU's just being as suspicious as you would if positions reversed.

	18-03-2002 09:52									#57
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Galileo = not your sattelite.

AAAAGGGGHTHTHTH

friggen hellll....didn't read the whole post.

You are right...that would be an AOW.


But in a war*, AOW's are normal...



*postulated**




**note use of cool mathematical sounding word.

	18-03-2002 09:54									#58
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Which reminds me: you've been ignoring me...

I'm only good enough to talk to when you're drunk?

I saw you talking to paiktis, too, you bastard.

Canada>Greece, plus we smell better. I demand respect!

	18-03-2002 09:57									#59
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse And what would the US do if it had to rely on EU satellites for GPS? You're damned straight they'd put up their own network. EU's just being as suspicious as you would if positions reversed.

EU is not an entity tho...

We can still split that apple...

	18-03-2002 11:16									#60
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Which reminds me: you've been ignoring me... I'm only good enough to talk to when you're drunk? I saw you talking to paiktis, too, you bastard. Canada>Greece, plus we smell better. I demand respect!

HEY!!

You know I LUB you, little kitty!!

And I just talk more in general when drunk. And no fighting between you and Paiktis. You are both on the A-list...