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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
I can always look forward to you adding a good deal of sauce and spice to each thread you elect to spread your amazingly unyielding joy in, Guynemer. Chalk me up as forever changed and my soul eternally uplifted by your remarkable contribution to this discussion.
The fact of the matter is, Guynie, you can't (and no one can, really) say that homosexuality isn't a problem. Saying it's on the same level as obesity on the public health crisis scale is being rather generous after all.
Unless you think being gay (the biolgical equal of cutting your balls off) isn't a big deal? |
No, it's not a big deal. It's not even a little deal. It's not a deal at all. It just is. You know any gay people, Wiggy? Why don't you ask them your questions?
And besides, you never answered mine--whose DL are you?
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finkian
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Charm City
Mar 2002
time: 00:18
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I'm so amused that you can sound so sure of yourself, when, in fact, I can surmise (due to your incredible ignorance) that you've never even KNOWN a gay person, much less spoken to one in real life, met their families, met their partners, seen how they actually interact with society. Adoption? Do you know how hard it is to adopt a child if you're a gay couple? No, sorry, dude, you lose on that one-- the majority of gay couples with children spawned them themselves, "castrated" and all.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SociableMartian
Castrated people enjoy sexual intercourse as well, even many people catrated before puberty... that doesn't change the fact that you can never have children. People who can never have children are just a burden on society, I think it's time you faced up to it. You are in the wrong and you need straightning out NOW, weather it be by a deduction or by compulsory sex reeducation. Either way face it, you can and will be moulded into productive members of society and I think within 20 years when this gay fad is over most people will strongly agree with me (as all societies in history have). |
Nope, I am completely comfortable and happy as a gay man.
And being gay is not a fad when there has been homosexuality since prehistoric times.
Homosexuals, bisexuals, and heterosexuals are ALL legitimate groups of people based on sexual orientation. The social double standards that are forced upon homosexuals and bisexuals out of ignorance and hatred need to be thrown away.
I am getting tired of arguing with people like you, Wiggy, and Boddington, who cannot argue without using hate-loaded language, or ignorant language. 
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SociableMartian
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Hi... I'm new here...
Apr 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Nope, I am completely comfortable and happy as a gay man. |
You'd be happier on the *STRAIGHT* and narrow.
quote:
And being gay is not a fad when there has been homosexuality since prehistoric times. |
Maybe not, but gay acceptance is a new thing. Before gays were happier finding proper, productive straight relationships. Nowadays I think they've gone too far. Get back in the closet guys, and don't come back out.
quote:
Homosexuals, bisexuals, and heterosexuals are ALL legitimate groups of people based on sexual orientation. The social double standards that are forced upon homosexuals and bisexuals out of ignorance and hatred need to be thrown away |
They're not double standards, they're just a healthy straight view of a potentially dangerous practise.
quote:
I am getting tired of arguing with people like you, Wiggy, and Boddington, who cannot argue without using hate-loaded language, or ignorant language. |
I don't hate gays, I care for them, and I hope they can be shown the true light of healthy, normal relationships before they damage themselves in irreperable ways.
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SociableMartian
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Hi... I'm new here...
Apr 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
SociableMartian, clearly you are grossly ignorant about the concept of sexual orientation development and the different sexual orientations. |
I know enough about sexual orientations to know that the only true healthy orientation is straight, normal, and hetrosexual, and that this orientation is the one that satisfied 99.5% of the population (don't believe me look up the studies done in recent years).
quote:
And, it really does seem that you hate gays when you cannot accept their identity, and try to tell other people how they will be happy, when it is up to them to decide how they will be happy. |
Well, I accept they exist, and I accept they are happy with themselves. But many paedophiles and murderers are happy with themselves too, and they along with gays should not be permitted to choose how to satisfy themselves without enlightened guidance from the rest of society. There is still hope for all these groups, all equally disadvantages in my opinion.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:18
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Good points SM.
quote:
I am getting tired of arguing with people like you, Wiggy, and Boddington, who cannot argue without using hate-loaded language, or ignorant language. |
Oh calm the hell down. There was no hate in any post in this thread at all, ever. Get over it, this is a civilized and very constructive arguement - hate to see how you respond to *gasp* actual personal insults IRL. Grow some balls and stop whining please.
quote:
SociableMartian, clearly you are grossly ignorant about the concept of sexual orientation development and the different sexual orientations. |
He's ignorant?! You still haven't admitted that, through the application of simple biology (how many times have I said this), homosexuality is a rather negative trait that can only end in disaster for the species should it get out of control. We evolve up, not down - any new development in the body that lessens the chance for normal reproduction isn't a positive one, whether you can still try and make test tube babies despite it or not. Therefore, homosexuality is a disorder and you're insane to say you're proud to have it. See where I'm going with that?
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Guynemer
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DLs... DLs everywhere...
So much dancing to be done.
Wiggy, you're awfully stubborn on this whole not-revealing-your-true-identity thing. I must admit, you do a better job of keeping it not quite totally obvious when compared to our Martian friend. I give that login another two days, tops.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SociableMartian
I know enough about sexual orientations to know that the only true healthy orientation is straight, normal, and hetrosexual, and that this orientation is the one that satisfied 99.5% of the population (don't believe me look up the studies done in recent years).
Well, I accept they exist, and I accept they are happy with themselves. But many paedophiles and murderers are happy with themselves too, and they along with gays should not be permitted to choose how to satisfy themselves without enlightened guidance from the rest of society. There is still hope for all these groups, all equally disadvantages in my opinion. |
Actually, about 5% of the world's population is gay.
There is NO justice in comparing homosexuals and bisexuals to pedophiles and murderers. 
The ignorance and hatred from Wiggy, SociableMartian, and Boddington are becoming too much for even me to handle. I need to put them on the Ignore feature.
What does anyone else think -- is it better to put them on ignore now??
The arguments from Wiggy, Boddington, and SociableMartian were NOT constructive, they were not intelligent.
They were loaded with offensive, ignorant remarks that have no substantial backing in sociology, psychology, or any other legitimate field of studies.
I need to put them on ignore, but for those of you who put these trio on ignore, have you guys been better off that way on Apolyton??
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Logical Realist
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California
Jan 2002
time: 21:18
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Wiglaf after reading these posts it is clear to me that you haven't the slightest inkling of how evolution works or relates to politics and morality.
First off, the Darwinian process has almost nothing in common with it. Darwin even said that natural selection and evolution do not constitute some sort of supernatural moral order, so scratch that little unwarranted leap.
Also, though, even if we were going by a completely Darwinian pov, you're wrong.Reasons?
1) There is no end directed "purpose" in the Darwinian sense. The closest you can come to "purpose" is "Utility Function", organisms don't evolve to do anything except help with the survival of and spread: genes. They don't do this because some higher moral order demands that they do but because the ones that do spread genes, just happen to stay around. And even if this counted as a "purpose" it doesn't stand to reason, even given that weird definition, that purpose= "reproduction" but instead DNA survival, of which, reporduction is only a key element...sometimes.
For example with ants,wasps,termite etc....the sterile workers are unable to reproduce, hence in your view they are "malfunctions" and "failures". But not in the "view" of what is truly selected by Darwinian evolution...the gene. Despite the fact that the workers do not reporduce they do help preserve the genes they carry in themeselves and latter reproduced by the queen. From an individual point of view, this makes no sense, since the workers seem to be getting the short end of the deal. But from the viewpoint of the genes, it makes perfect sense, as their non-mating helps the genes live on anyways(through the queen and latter colonies).
So sometimes an organism can thus still follow their Darwinian purpose without necessarily reproducing and you are wrong to say that "reproduction" is the purpose of life according to evolutionary theory.
2) Even if that is true, that homosexuality is a dead end on the Darwinian process, (and you seem to say this, yet deny it at the same time by saying it's continuing and "spreading", meaning it must be having some sort of success) so what? The process is not the "goal" of the organism necessarily nor should it be the organisms standard of good. Organisms, do not intentionally go out to spread their genes, they goout to satisfy their desires.Their desires just so happen to be very conductive to gene spreading and preserving.
This means that we, as organisms, don't necessarily have to give two cents about preserving genes, since the act of "preserving genes" might not necessarily factor into our value system. All that factors in is the instincts that were unintentionally(from the organisms pov) good at spreading genes. This hence makes your leap from "evolution" to "human standards and political policy" again unwarranted.
3) Even if our reproduction was the highest good derived from Darwin's principles.....why the hell would we want to give gays a tax cut? 
That would only either A) Cost us(straight people like me) money or B) Make us have less money for government programs that could benefit us. Why would we want to give money to non-competitors, to make them fitter opponents?
If you were going to use misinformation, I'd expect you to at least be consistent in applying your principles. 
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
There is NO justice in comparing homosexuals and bisexuals to pedophiles and murderers. |
Umm..nobody did. His point was that anyone can be happy with his behavior, but that definitely doesn't make it right...
quote:
They were loaded with offensive, ignorant remarks |
Oh christ...Believe me - whenever you call me or SM or anyone here a homophobe, you obviously don't know what you're saying. A real homophobe would've done faaar worse. There would be no debate. Trust me, I've seen some real hate out there.
If you really - honestly - believe I'm a homophobe, I don't know what to tell you. Crawl out from under that rock, or something. This is an ultra-civil conversation that has not once resulted in threats or name calling (fag, queer, etc) until of course you go and yell "gay hater" at the top of your lungs.
Grow up. If you think any negative discussion about homosexuality is homophobic behavior, you obviously don't know what a homophobe is. And quite frankly you're starting to get on my nerves with that "stop hurting my feelings" crap that has no basis. Again - grow some balls. It'll help you a LOT when someone "picks on you" IRL.
Giancarlo essentially called me gay three times in this thread. Did I constantly break down, MrFun? Even if I went out of my way to make overly offensive remarks, you should just a) ignore me b) report me c) shrug it off. Simple as that.
quote:
(and you seem to say this, yet deny it at the same time by saying it's continuing and "spreading", meaning it must be having some sort of success) |
Lots of negative traits spread...
quote:
why the hell would we want to give gays a tax cut? |
This thread has always assumed that the obese deserve one as well.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Umm..nobody did. His point was that anyone can be happy with his behavior, but that definitely doesn't make it right...
Oh christ...Believe me - whenever you call me or SM or anyone here a homophobe, you obviously don't know what you're saying. A real homophobe would've done faaar worse. There would be no debate. Trust me, I've seen some real hate out there.
If you really - honestly - believe I'm a homophobe, I don't know what to tell you. Crawl out from under that rock, or something. This is an ultra-civil conversation that has not once resulted in threats or name calling (fag, queer, etc) until of course you go and yell "gay hater" at the top of your lungs.
Grow up. If you think any negative discussion about homosexuality is homophobic behavior, you obviously don't know what a homophobe is. And quite frankly you're starting to get on my nerves with that "stop hurting my feelings" crap that has no basis. Again - grow some balls. It'll help you a LOT when someone "picks on you" IRL.
Giancarlo essentially called me gay three times in this thread. Did I constantly break down, MrFun? Even if I went out of my way to make overly offensive remarks, you should just a) ignore me b) report me c) shrug it off. Simple as that.
Lots of negative traits spread...
This thread has always assumed that the obese deserve one as well. |
Wiggy, you just do not know how the real world works --- you constantly deny the legitimacy of love between people just because they are of the same gender.
You're an ultra-conservative. So that means you're an extremist. Any extremist on any end of the spectrum will express hatred towards a certain group of people. So you're hate-filled and ignorant rantings make much more sense on why you're ranting like that.
You're arguing this way about homosexuals and yet claim not to hate homosexuals.
And let me tell you something else -- I definitely know what a homophobic is. You can definitely be homophobic without being violent, and still be hateful.
That's like a white person arguing for segregation or a law against interracial marriages, and saying that he is NOT a racist.
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07-04-2002 02:12
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