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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
I don't think it is worth arguing with homophobe (oppressed homosexual) wiggy. |
That's remarkable because I've had a quite serious girlfriend for the last two damn years (several before that), Gianny, and never once a male one. What an ass that makes you.
quote:
Any relationship that is based on love and trust between two consenting adults is normal, since it is a basic human need. To deny that gays and bisexuals are entitled to fulfill that same basic human need, without sacrificing part of their identity, is morally wrong. |
"Love" isn't a basic human need, the sex part is. That's common sense, our most powerful drive (next to survival, naturally) isn't being cared for or whatever, it's reproduction.
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Those people who have claimed that they have changed, have not really changed their sexual orientation. They only changed their behavior -- acting straight, when they will always be gay for the rest of their lives. |
Hmm..that's interesting. Well, as long as they "act straight" enough to reproduce, that's fine by me. Give 'em a tax deduction.
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Tuberski
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ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
That certainly is a ridiculous statement. Why do you think at puberty humans suddenly become extremely attracted to the opposite sex to the point of near insanity? Why do you think sex exists at all, and why do you think our bodies and minds naturally want to go along with it? You are always operating under the sex drive to further the species and to further the species only...therefore, all the times you've personally made love to a woman were most definitely influenced by the fact that the species simply must go on at all costs, whether you stopped to think about it or not.
Unless you think sex only exists to make you happy... |
I wasn't near insane when puberty hit, I grew hair in strange places, my voice changed, i got erections and found out how to relieve them. But I'm not an animal, I can control those reactions.
No I don't think sex exists to make me happy, I undrstand the perpetuation of the species, however if it wasn't fun and didn't make me happy I wouldn't do it.
If YOU are always operating under the sex drive to further the species, YOU should get your tax deduction, because you need serious psychological help.
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
But Wiggy, it is morally wrong to force any law-abiding adult citizen into forcing him/her to behave contrary to what part of their identity is. It makes their life less full, in a sense.
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We're operating under the assumption that the fat deserve a tax deduction, which in the great country of America they now do.
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I somehow doubt that. You probably are finishing off that post and jumping into bed with your boyfriend. |
Actually, Giancarlo, you're starting to cross the line with that crap. I don't know how insecure or immature you are, but I'd advise you to stop being such an ass, and quickly.
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Love is the most intimate way in which we seek to belong with one other special person. This helps the perpetuation of the species, but love is still a basic human need, regardless of sexual orientation. |
Wrong. Love doesn't help keep the species going, sex does. In the "prehistoric" times you speak of, love never really entered the equation anyway. It was all about "spreading the seed". That's sorta the way it still is. Developing a relationship is fine and dandy, but without reproducing it's totally empty as far as the species is concerned. If you don't have the urge to reproduce you need a deduction and quick.
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connorkimbro
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Seoul Korea
Jan 1970
time: 23:18
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My dear wiglaf, several times now you have not only said that rapists and murderers are sick, screwed up, and a threat to society. Are you implying that homosexuals are on the same level as rapists and murderers? How dare you? How dare you equate something about which you comprehend nothing, desanctify a beautiful thing by putting it on terms of base animal behavior?
Have you ever been in love, wiggy? Have you ever known that you would feel comfortable giving up your entire life to someone else? It's really sad if you never have. And it's even sadder that you would choose to "rehabilitate" someone, force them to "reproduce" with someone whom they care nothing for, and separate them from the potential of being happy-- all because you don't understand what a gay person is-- not a man who has sex with men, but a person who has the capability to love, and to express it physically as well. If you say that you would rather sacrifice their happiness because they don't fit your image of manhood, or because they are "depopulating the planet," then that's you're own issue. If you think gay people are depopulating our society, please, show me the numbers of how many children are not being born due to homosexual activity, instead of a increase in concern of resources, time, and money. I know many straight people who're old and married, but simply didn't have children because they couldn't support them. Society has changed so that values are focussed more on self improvement, building relationships, and building careers. Not "furthering the species." You are so blind.
This thread was never about "we should give homosexuals a tax cut so they can afford therapy," it was always about you feeling the need to bash gays, to express your sad preoccupation with something that doesn't affect you anyway. Get over your issues about your own manhood, so that you can stop worrying about issues of whether another man has as big a manhood as you do.
(poof) Troll be gone!
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SociableMartian
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Hi... I'm new here...
Apr 2002
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
It's called natural selection.
Most animals do it. |
Most animals don't kill each other.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Those people who have claimed that they have changed, have not really changed their sexual orientation. They only changed their behavior -- acting straight, when they will always be gay for the rest of their lives.
The prevelant hatred towards homosexuals has caused some gays to be manipulated into believing they can change their sexual orientation.
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I'd believe them before I believe you. It's one thing to claim to know yourself, that's pretty hard to refute. It's another thing to claim to know others better than they themselves do. I have known probably 20 people who were gay become straight. We can quibble about definitions, so here is the definition I'm using:
These people described themselves as gay and had only same sex partners after coming out in their teens or early 20s, and then magically they fell in love with a member of the opposite sex, enjoyed it, got married and had kids. The whole process usually happened in their mid 20s to early 30s. They describe themselves currently as straight or bisexual.
It seems to me that there is a general tendency I can draw for people of my generation. At first almost everyone claims they are straight. Then at the University a fair percentage (15% perhaps) announce that they are gay. Then 1 to 10 years later most of these same people claim that they are straight again. Why would they succumb to societal pressure so late in the game? They have already told their friends and family, and so paid whatever price they had to for being gay. Many of them had networks of gay friends who ostracized them for what they saw as a betrayal, which meant that they paid a price twice simply for following the dictates of their hearts.
People's sexual preference can change, this is irrefutable. You stating that it cannot holds as much water for me as The Moral Majority claiming that everyone is heterosexual and only deluding themselves if they claim to be gay. You and the religious right in fact are insulting people in your claim that if they disagree with you about the most intimate part of themselves then they must be delusional. Unfortunately the religious right and those like yourself who seem to hang their entire identity upon their homosexuality are dominating the discussion and doing everyone a disservice. In your fanatical campaign to get the world to conform to the pattern which makes you most comfortable you are sowing an immense amount of confusion.
This confusion costs lives. Young people who are unsure about their sexual identity and just figuring themselves out are put in a very difficult position. They can hew to the heterosexual line and receive the blessings of the larger society in general at a cost of having a true confidence in their sexuality and often great difficulty achieving healthy intimate relationships. Or they can hew to the homosexual line, put their relationship with their family and friends in peril and join with their homosexual friends (if they have any other than their partner) who will often do all that they can to make them identify with homosexuality to the utmost by indoctrinating them with the sorts of things I see you say above.
Young people who are lucky enough to live in an environment like a larger city or a university can often escape this tug of war between the fanatics because the alternatives are more viable. Fortunately the trend seems to be toward this more neutral course as the mysteries of sexual preferences are becoming more common knowledge. I live in a pretty socially liberal college town where the religious right is pretty weak as is the homosexual activist community, and I do see a lessening of the tension for young people who are wrestling with these issues. Hopefully we can all learn to chill out and respect one another at face value and allow everyone the freedom to define themselves as they make their own discoveries. If you wish to be taken seriously then the first step is to accord the same to others.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:18
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That was a good post, Sikander.
Fun,
It's totally ackward how an otherwise sexually concious person like you can have the idea that one's gender preference is written in stone and unchangeable from day one. I think you've used the term "sexual identity" yourself on a couple occasions, and given the definition of "identity" it should be pretty obvious that it's something which eventually develops and changes. Everybody out there is a potential homo- hetero- or bisexual, it all comes down to which conditions and environments they're exposed to, especially during their puberty and teenage years.
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Guynemer
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quote:
Originally posted by SociableMartian
He's as much of a DL as I am |
Exactly!
Dance, everybody!
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Wiglaf
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Cambridge
Dec 2000
time: 23:18
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quote:
But there's one problem --- homosexuality and bisexuality are not disorders. They are a sexual orientation just like heterosexuality is.
If you say that homosexuality and bisexuality are disorders, then why isn't heterosexuality?? All three are sexual orientations. |
One keeps the species going, the others usually do not.
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Puberty is about ALL of those things, sure your reproductive system changes, but you also grow pubic hair, |
Oh my God. Enough out of you, please. Take a biology class or something - quickly.
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Either here or in a book recently I found out that more than half of all matings between orangutans are rapes. If you ask me, we've civilised ourselves to a much greater degree than is "normal" for the animal kingdom. |
Link, book, fast. Lean towards the Fox side as opposed to the Discovery Channel manner of reporting if you can.
quote:
That's all that has come out of your mind of course I "caught it" |
Aren't you the clever one. Give yourself a pat on the back. Btw, if you want to accuse me of not aruging, look at the quoted post a little closer. And leave the thread while you're at it.
quote:
You've mentioned your "serious girlfriends" (a phrase I love- it conjures up a stern young schoolmarm in glasses glaring at you as she raps you over the knuckles for failing to go to 3rd base in the appropriate manner)- yet you haven't mentioned your kids at any point.
Are you failing in your primary evolutionary task? |
I'm not taking the road of biological destruction (homosexuality). So no, I'd say I'm in the norm.
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06-04-2002 06:23
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