10-04-2002 11:00									#331
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai You folks in Alberta can take pride in your political principles, but you'll never have any power. You'll always be on the fringe just like any fanatical group.

If attitutudes like that prevail over the next 50 years Central Canada may take pride in their righteousness as Alberta exits stage left on this farce of a political system.

	10-04-2002 11:05									#332
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither If attitutudes like that prevail over the next 50 years Central Canada may take pride in their righteousness as Alberta exits stage left on this farce of a political system.

We will welcome you! We'd like to have another domestic oil source.

	10-04-2002 11:06									#333
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DD

Did you know that Alberta has more oil than Saudi Arabia?

Can we have 4 seats in the senate?

	10-04-2002 11:07									#334
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There's only 1.6Trillion barrels of oil in the Alberta Oil Sands, not to mention the stuff we're already pumping out.

Once the oil sand development nears completion, Alberta's revenues should climb even higher towards the sky, and Central Canada would look like complete baffoons if Alberta walked out on the country then, taking the money with them.

	10-04-2002 11:10									#335
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither If attitutudes like that prevail over the next 50 years Central Canada may take pride in their righteousness as Alberta exits stage left on this farce of a political system.

Surely, you mean stage right.

	10-04-2002 11:10									#336
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Incidently, Saskatchewan is rumoured to be vey well endowed lubricant wise. If we come, can they come with us? BC. They're good people too, if slightly misguided. How about them?

	10-04-2002 11:17									#337
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Did you know that Alberta has more oil than Saudi Arabia?

I did not know that. Why does the Canadian government ignore such a cash cow?

quote: Can we have 4 seats in the senate?

No, but would you settle for lower taxes, an effective Senate, and a government that would pay more attention to your needs than your current one. All this would be on top of whatever you could get out of negotiations with the US government.

	10-04-2002 11:20									#338
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc All this would be on top of whatever you could get out of negotiations with the US government.

We will give you oil in exchange for... flip, flip, flip... Synthetic Fibers. Yes, that's it. We'll give you oil for Abrams, uhh, I mean Synthetic Fibers.

Ohhh Ontariooooo...

	10-04-2002 13:34									#339
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2 Senate seats and about 5-10 Congressional seats. That's it. Take it or leave it .

	10-04-2002 13:44									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is semirelated, and was touched on Earlier...: Can anyone give Alberta some good reasons why life is better for us in Canada rather than the US or on our own? I'm not saying we should ditch Canada, I'm just asking for people to evaluate why we even stay here. There doesn't seem to be too much benefit, but there's a whole lot of hell that comes with it.

You're acting like a spoiled child. I suggest that Albertans need to consider voting strategically, and you say no it won't work without even trying. The PCs created a party that formed two majority governments, and the Albertans sabotaged it by creating the Reform Party. Albertans could have tried pushing the PCs to the right, but instead they destroyed it. The PCs were Alberta's best hope and Alberta played a big part in destroying it. And then, with a typical western whine, the Albertans blame it on Ontario and Quebec.

As for why you should stay in Canada, I don't understand how you even can ask that question because I am a loyal Canadian. I believe that we have created one of the greatest places to live, not a perfect place, but a hellavalot better than anything south of the border.

There is nothing to gain by joining the US, and everything to lose.

I say that as someone whose family has as many roots in BC as we do in Ontario. I say that as someone who has spent most of his adult life living outside of Ontario.

You want reasons:

Canada is one of the few countries in the world where people of different backgrounds and beliefs (culturally, ethnically, religiously and politically) can co-exist together in peace.

We have created a system where right-wingers have a province where they can largely create a system that meets their needs while left-wingers have their province.

We have created a society where we look after people without babying them.

We have created a society where justice is the norm.

We have created a society that is largely free from racial/religious/political violence.

We have a created a society where people can call themselves Canadian without having to conform to some mythical definition of a true Canadian.

We have created a society where people, for the most part, treat each other with respect.

We have created cities in oil-producing regions that are environmentally friendly.

And the main reason why Albertans are better off in Canada is: In Canada, hockey is rightfully the only true sport.

	10-04-2002 13:47									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui 2 Senate seats and about 5-10 Congressional seats. That's it. Take it or leave it .

We don't take dictation from central powers very well you know.

Sweeten the deal a bit. Comon... can't you let us invade Ontario with the spiffy new National Guard we get?

	10-04-2002 13:54									#342
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai You're acting like a spoiled child.

You do know that when you starve a child of attention they begin to act out?
*coughcough*

quote: I suggest that Albertans need to consider voting strategically, and you say no it won't work without even trying. The PCs created a party that formed two majority governments, and the Albertans sabotaged it by creating the Reform Party. Albertans could have tried pushing the PCs to the right, but instead they destroyed it. The PCs were Alberta's best hope and Alberta played a big part in destroying it. And then, with a typical western whine, the Albertans blame it on Ontario and Quebec.

What your suggesting will not only not work, but it'd completely backfire and give the liberals even more breathing room and confidence.

You seem to act like Alberta is one large unified group with one large unified ideology. We don't group together and tell everyone who to vote for. People vote for who they want, when they want. Usually this is for the party that supports your beliefs and interests.

This system is called a democracy.

I will not allow for it to be reduced to "strategic voting" which means voting for the opposite team and hoping they take heart and change their platform to suit your (expendable) needs.

quote: As for why you should stay in Canada, I don't understand how you even can ask that question because I am a loyal Canadian. I believe that we have created one of the greatest places to live, not a perfect place, but a hellavalot better than anything south of the border.

I disagree.
I have lived south of the border. It's a much more fair political system, and the politicians there at least act respectable (have you ever seen footage from inside the House of Commons?).

It's nice being Canadian. People don't ram planes into your buildings. But it's not nice being an Albertan in today's Canada. The liberals just don't give a sh*t and that's not going to change anytime soon.

quote: There is nothing to gain by joining the US, and everything to lose.

How do you figure?
The US is far closer to Alberta's political ideologies. (major boon)
The US would allow for Alberta to be represented more fairly in government.
The US would allow for better and easier investment in Alberta.

What do we have to lose by joining the US? Tell me, because I can't seem to find anything.

quote: You want reasons: Canada is one of the few countries in the world where people of different backgrounds and beliefs (culturally, ethnically, religiously and politically) can co-exist together in peace.

You could do this as part of the US or as an independent country.

quote: We have created a system where right-wingers have a province where they can largely create a system that meets their needs while left-wingers have their province.

You created a system where right wingers can have a province, but constantly fend off left-wing attacks from a pushy federal government that can't mind its own business, while simultaneously giving you the proverbial finger when it comes to federal politics.

Won't miss that one bit.

quote: We have created a society where we look after people without babying them.

This isn't specific to Canada, and can be accomplished on our own or as a US state.

quote: We have created a society where justice is the norm.

Again, not specific to Canada.

quote: We have created a society that is largely free from racial/religious/political violence.

Again...

quote: We have a created a society where people can call themselves Canadian without having to conform to some mythical definition of a true Canadian.

Again...

quote: We have created a society where people, for the most part, treat each other with respect.

Again...

quote: We have created cities in oil-producing regions that are environmentally friendly.

Again...

quote: And the main reason why Albertans are better off in Canada is: In Canada, hockey is rightfully the only true sport.

Again...

You gave absolutely no compelling reasons to stay in Canada. Every single one of your reasons is simply "Canada is a nice place to live", which can certainly be accomplished as a separate country or as a US state, along with the political freedom and expression Alberta has desired for half a century.

You're going to have to try harder.

	10-04-2002 14:01									#343
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Is the ROC going to go to war to prevent Alberta from being the 51 state?

Where exactly was that rule book that we have to live by?

	10-04-2002 14:02									#344
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We're not going to try too hard. You'll huff and puff like Quebec's been doing for 30 years, then you'll ***** out just like the people here did.

Incidentall, were you watching the documentary on C(ommie)BC Newsworld? An Albertan and a Québecois switch places. Interesting stuff...

	10-04-2002 14:03									#345
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse We're not going to try too hard. You'll huff and puff like Quebec's been doing for 30 years, then you'll ***** out just like the people here did.

Once you take a look at the revenue the oilsands would bring to Canada, I guarantee all you guys will be singing a different tune if Alberta talks about leaving.

quote: Incidentall, were you watching the documentary on C(ommie)BC Newsworld? An Albertan and a Québecois switch places. Interesting stuff...

Didn't I mention earlier I don't watch CBC?

	10-04-2002 14:04									#346
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Like I said KH, let the liberals screw us again and the BQ will look like the Queen's tea party.

Kyoto anyone?

	10-04-2002 14:06									#347
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Yes, but I figured you might break your boycott occasionally.

Anyway, what I wanted to mention is that after watching an hour and a half of it tonight, I realised that I know the Albertan who got himself mixed up in that mess.

They refer to him as Lars, and I think to myself: "Hey! Don't I already know a Lars from Alberta? Wait; that is Lars from Alberta!"

	10-04-2002 14:08									#348
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Hey, good for you, KH!
Making new friends all the time.

	10-04-2002 14:11									#349
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Actually, he was the biggest jerk I met while there, and he had the awful habit of picking his nose and studying the results in public places.

The other Edmontonians were nice, though...

	10-04-2002 14:12									#350
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KH. You villify Alberta at your own peril. There are plenty of regions of Canada who have been royally done by the Toronto-Montreal Axis.

What about when they start to realize how poorly they are served by political power in Quebec and Ontario?

What about when the possiblity begins to dawn on them that there are alternatives to condesention and submission?

	10-04-2002 14:14									#351
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I'm not vilifying Alberta. I'd like you guys to stay, and I think you will.

EDIT: and you'll note that if I was vilifying you, I would also have been vilifying Quebec.

	10-04-2002 14:16									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You gave absolutely no compelling reasons to stay in Canada. Every single one of your reasons is simply "Canada is a nice place to live", which can certainly be accomplished as a separate country or as a US state, along with the political freedom and expression Alberta has desired for half a century. You're going to have to try harder.

The US is the most right-wing country in the west so yes, Albertans might have more in common politically, but culturally and historically, they would have nothing in common.

In the US, Alberta would be a small voice in a giant sea (about 1 per cent of US population). Your voice would not be heard.

True on the investment bit. I'm all in favour of reducing the investment barriers.

It may not be enough for you, but I'd wager that most Albertans would never be willing to leave Canada. For one thing, many of them moved there from other parts of Canada, or their parents did. In the end, they consider outselves Canadian first.

Many of the things I mentioned could be created elsewhere in theory, but they don't exist toigether elsewhere. They exist in Canada. If Alberta joined up with the States, you would lose many of the things I mentioned.

Albertans have it good. That's why so many Canadians move there.

	10-04-2002 14:16									#353
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Actually, he was the biggest jerk I met while there, and he had the awful habit of picking his nose and studying the results in public places. The other Edmontonians were nice, though...

Now you're trolling. Nice try. Here's a cigar.

Have I offended your sense of fairness so badly by telling the truth about Canada's political system for all the Poly world to see?

	10-04-2002 14:17									#354
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Nightmare Scenerio:
Alberta and BC announce they will seceed and form a new country.
Yukon, NWT, Saskatchewan, Manitoba ask for admittence too.



Wouldn't that be something?

	10-04-2002 14:20									#355
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nightmare Scenerio: Alberta and BC announce they will seceed and form a new country. Yukon, NWT, Saskatchewan, Manitoba ask for admittence too. Wouldn't that be something?

Yeah, and when the first election is held, the first government is made up of NDPers from BC, Yukon, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba with Romanov as the new Prime Minister.

	10-04-2002 14:21									#356
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The US is the most right-wing country in the west so yes, Albertans might have more in common politically, but culturally and historically, they would have nothing in common.

History has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Culturally? Canada's the 51st state! They're virtually the same culturally. You're really grasping at straws here aren't you?

quote: In the US, Alberta would be a small voice in a giant sea (about 1 per cent of US population). Your voice would not be heard.

Nonsense, we'd have the same representation as every other state in the Senate, plus our voice is largely the same as everyone elses.

quote: It may not be enough for you, but I'd wager that most Albertans would never be willing to leave Canada. For one thing, many of them moved there from other parts of Canada, or their parents did. In the end, they consider outselves Canadian first.

Ah, so the Americans would never want to declare independence from Britain as well since most people came from Britain.

When you're in a family, and that family abuses you, you run away or you join a foster family.

quote: Many of the things I mentioned could be created elsewhere in theory, but they don't exist toigether elsewhere. They exist in Canada. If Alberta joined up with the States, you would lose many of the things I mentioned.

Like what?

quote: Albertans have it good. That's why so many Canadians move there.

They move here because we know what we're doing.

We know how to run a government, which is precisely why many provinces (including Ontario) have been using Alberta as a guide for provincial politics now.

Tell us again which province started the fad of having no deficit?
Which province is going to be debt-free within the decade?

	10-04-2002 14:21									#357
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Yukon, NWT and Nunavut are territories. They don't get a vote in the issue. They are not active parties to the constitution. They have no real political rights. Kinda like many people in the East would prefer to keep the West.

	10-04-2002 14:21									#358
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Now you're trolling. Nice try. Here's a cigar. Have I offended your sense of fairness so badly by telling the truth about Canada's political system for all the Poly world to see?

I don't see why I'm trolling you. I said every person I met while there was nice except for this one guy. You aren't that guy, are you? If so, then too bad. Learn to stop picking your nose.

	10-04-2002 14:23									#359
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Yeah, and when the first election is held, the first government is made up of NDPers from BC, Yukon, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba with Romanov as the new Prime Minister.

I never said anything about Alberta letting in those provinces who asked.

	10-04-2002 14:24									#360
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Sorry. I mistook you. I'll stop picking my nose too.

I still think I've been trolled.