06-05-2002 20:24									#151
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Agreed, Doc.

	06-05-2002 22:10									#152
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I deny any connection to him.

	06-05-2002 22:15									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Eli The land you live on is Cherokee. Even the most blatant Palestinian lies about the Israeli actions are nothing compared to what the Americans did to the Indians.

But before the Cherokee, there were Creeks here so I guess the land belongs to them instead. How far back do we go? You're delusional to think that finding Jewish bones belonging to your "forefathers" improves the Israeli claim to the region.

quote: So the next time you say something about the Israeli settlers, dont forget that at least their ancestors had lived on this land, unlike yours.

So far as I know I havent said anything about Israeli settlers. There cant be a next time until there's a first time.

	06-05-2002 22:22									#154
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH But before the Cherokee, there were Creeks here so I guess the land belongs to them instead. How far back do we go? You're delusional to think that finding Jewish bones belonging to your "forefathers" improves the Israeli claim to the region.

Do those Creeks still exist? If yes, then the land belongs to them.
And we need nothing to improve our claim to the region, 3500 years of history, 2000 years of hope to return to Zion and the means we have to make sure we stay here is enough.

quote: So far as I know I havent said anything about Israeli settlers. There cant be a next time until there's a first time.

Oops. I thought you're yet another Pro-Pal poster.

	06-05-2002 22:30									#155
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Land doesn't belong to any group of people. Neither the Jews nor the Pals have a "right" to the land they're fighting over. That's my belief, anyway.

	06-05-2002 22:31									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I deny any connection to him.

Eli , please explain , .........

as for the rest , have a nice day

	06-05-2002 22:36									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Land doesn't belong to any group of people. Neither the Jews nor the Pals have a "right" to the land they're fighting over. That's my belief, anyway.

hi ,

ya better stay in that safehouse , .....

as for the rest , i believe that you shall change , when certainly someone with a kitchen-towel is running behind ya , putting ya out of da house , LOL , we shall see , that if ya go back in 10 years ya aint going to want it back , .....


have a nice day

	06-05-2002 22:41									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Eli And we need nothing to improve our claim to the region, 3500 years of history, 2000 years of hope to return to Zion and the means we have to make sure we stay here is enough.

Surely you're not saying that nobody but Jews ever lived in the disputed areas? What about their claims?

	06-05-2002 22:43									#159
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Surely you're not saying that nobody but Jews ever lived in the disputed areas? What about their claims?

Let me know if you meet some Canaanite.

	06-05-2002 22:44									#160
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Surely you're not saying that nobody but Jews ever lived in the disputed areas? What about their claims?

nope , just only 99.9999 percent

	06-05-2002 23:00									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Let me know if you meet some Canaanite.

Isnt it reasonable to suggest that the decendents of Canaanites are the (now) palestinians?

	06-05-2002 23:04									#162
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Isnt it reasonable to suggest that the decendents of Canaanites are the (now) palestinians?

hi ,

NO ,

they have nothing to do with us , they are just some crazy-towel-head-forced-out-of-muslim-country-blowing-themselfs-up ,
no good for nothing "beings"

have a nice day

	06-05-2002 23:16									#163
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Isnt it reasonable to suggest that the decendents of Canaanites are the (now) palestinians?

Most Palestinians immigrated to this area when the Jews started to return. It was almost not populated before that.

	06-05-2002 23:29									#164
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hi ,

with all the land in the world , .....the towel-heads , who , where being kicked out of other countries , for blowing stuff up , .....came to our land , why , well , since the towels where to lazy to do anything themselves , ......and of course , the jews had put all the sweat in it , why should they work for it , .....


have a nice day

	07-05-2002 00:29									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Most Palestinians immigrated to this area when the Jews started to return. It was almost not populated before that.

But if the modern palestinians are the descendents of the Canannites who were conquered and disposed from their land by the tribes of Israel after their Exodus from Egypt, then by your logic with respect to the cherokee and creek (now my) land, they have a prior claim dont they?

	07-05-2002 00:32									#166
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , with all the land in the world , .....the towel-heads , who , where being kicked out of other countries , for blowing stuff up , .....came to our land , why , well , since the towels where to lazy to do anything themselves , ......and of course , the jews had put all the sweat in it , why should they work for it , .....

More proof:

ZIONISM IS RACSISM

	07-05-2002 00:35									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Carver More proof: ZIONISM IS RACSISM

More proof that American idiots can't spell...

	07-05-2002 00:54									#168
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH But if the modern palestinians are the descendents of the Canannites who were conquered and disposed from their land by the tribes of Israel after their Exodus from Egypt, then by your logic with respect to the cherokee and creek (now my) land, they have a prior claim dont they?

But they're not. The Canaanites were destroyed, I think. I dont know, cant be arsed to read more about the subject.

Israel is right. Accept it.

	07-05-2002 00:59									#169
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hi ,

zionism has nothing to do with one being a jew or an Israeli , ....


have a nice day

	07-05-2002 03:32									#170
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara However, at a certain point it becomes insane trying to get at the root cause, and determine original blame. Hell, we all know it was Britain that screwed everything up. Since then both sides have been at each other's throats. Revenge is not a viable basis for security. It is only by ceasing to humiliate the Palestinians that they will begin to lose the anger that has them hurling their bodies at Israelis. Israel cannot make peace with a beaten dog.

I think President Bush, Powell and Rice all agree with this.

Ned

	07-05-2002 03:41									#171
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I just had a quick review of this thread and I never saw the following point addressed:

Did the Israeli government sell the land to the West Bank settlers?

If they did, how did the Israeli government acquire title?

Also, this thread continues to illustrate the continued confusion of ownership of the title to land with sovereignty. The two are distinct concepts and legal principles.

Ned

	07-05-2002 04:27									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Could the Israeli government (not necessarily the settlers themselves) be viewing the settlements as bargaining chips in whatever final status negotiations? By giving up more in the way of settlements, the Israelis might be able to get a better deal in terms of borders, water, etc. than they would otherwise get. There may be some precedent for this. As I understand it the Israelis gave up (blew up?) their existing Sinai settlements as part of the peace treaty with Egypt, though the number of Sinai settlements apparently was much smaller.

This is exactly the point of view of most Israelis.

We know that we'll have to give back lands, but we'd obviously prefer to keep as much as we can

But there are those ~20 % that think that these lands are obviously ours and should be kept that way. Some go to the extremes of wanting a cleansing of pals.

And there are ~30% that think that the settlements are just the 20%'s fetish and want them disassembled.


I personally prefer to have them as strategic stations and as trading cards.

I would, however, already have dissassembled those which are a burden rather than an asset.

	07-05-2002 04:36									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov This is exactly the point of view of most Israelis. We know that we'll have to give back lands, but we'd obviously prefer to keep as much as we can But there are those ~20 % that think that these lands are obviously ours and should be kept that way. Some go to the extremes of wanting a cleansing of pals. And there are ~30% that think that the settlements are just the 20%'s fetish and want them disassembled. I personally prefer to have them as strategic stations and as trading cards. I would, however, already have dissassembled those which are a burden rather than an asset.

Siro, Do you know the answer to my question concerning title? How did the government of Israel acquire title?

Ned

	07-05-2002 05:00									#174
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Ned: Varies greatly from place to place. Some of the more common methods:
* Some land was owned by the Jewish agency in the West Bank before the 1948 war, this was confiscated by Jordan and the Israeli government took it back in 1967. In some other places, individual Jews owned land, this was also taken.
* Government lands, being that in Israel's view, Jordan was no longer the government.
*Confiscation of land from Bedouin tribes and others who, although residing on the land, could not produce any documentation demonstrating their ownership thereof.

	07-05-2002 05:02									#175
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quote: Confiscation of land from Bedouin tribes and others who, although residing on the land, could not produce any documentation demonstrating their ownership thereof.

Being there is 9/10s of the law .

	07-05-2002 05:31									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Confiscation of land from Bedouin tribes and others who, although residing on the land, could not produce any documentation demonstrating their ownership thereof. Being there is 9/10s of the law .

Nathan, Thanks. I can see the issue coming down to the land expropriated from the "Jordanian" government or the Bedouins. I can see how the Palestinians could believe that this is rightfully "their" land. I believe Jordan agreed to transfer its interests to the PA, not so?

How, much land of this type was involved?

Ned

	07-05-2002 06:08									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Confiscation of land from Bedouin tribes and others who, although residing on the land, could not produce any documentation demonstrating their ownership thereof. Being there is 9/10s of the law .

I don't think a nomad is capable of acquiring title to land under any legal theory. What they may acquire are grazing rights by long usage. However, the title to the land not owned by anyone else is held by the government, which in the case question, was Jordan. Jordan had annexed the West Bank. Israel has not.

Ned

	07-05-2002 07:45									#178
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , NO , they have nothing to do with us , they are just some crazy-towel-head-forced-out-of-muslim-country-blowing-themselfs-up , no good for nothing "beings" have a nice day

I reported DeeeElllWay last night (?) for being an ******* anti-semite, and I'm reporting you today for being an ******* anti-Palestinian or whatever. That makes 4 reports in 12 months here for me. I sincerely hope you have a nice vacation.

	07-05-2002 08:10									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I don't think a nomad is capable of acquiring title to land under any legal theory. What they may acquire are grazing rights by long usage. However, the title to the land not owned by anyone else is held by the government, which in the case question, was Jordan. Jordan had annexed the West Bank. Israel has not. Ned

Note the smily! Note the smily!

	07-05-2002 09:01									#180
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Siro:

Thanks for the perspective.

Now the next questions:
At what point do most Israelis believe it becomes counterproductive to continue to amass bargaining chips?
Is there sufficient sentiment to begin dismantling the more burdensome settlements as a show of good faith?
Does the Oslo process provide for this?
Could it be done in return for, say, Arab countries renouncing the Khartoum Resolution calling for the destruction of Israel?
Or would it simply be in Isreal's eocnomic interest to cut some losses? Defending some of the outlying settlements must be a tremendous economic burden.