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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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OK guys, I made a few changes and I'll ask of you a (last?) effort trying to find the problems that might remain hidden in there... 
I'll send you the files in a few minutes! 
Here is what I changed this time:
1. Added a name list for the cities to be built! 
2. "Airbases and airports" are now complete with name, graphics and descriptions!
3. A few problems have been corrected: all civs should now be able to hire heroes, and such...
4. The truncated names problem is corrected
5. A small problem with the Dragons appearance has been corrected
6. The DD monsters (Dragons, Mummies, etc.) will appear more often and be "cheaper", so that hopefully DD will be more agressive 
7. The Special-Super-Defense units are now NONE
8. The name of the ruler of Om has been changed to Ossory
9. Modify a few things related to the golems
10. All the messages related to Airlifts have been changed
11. A message has been added upon City of Ee destruction!
12. The Librarian replaces all the historians
And here is what I'll do before the release, in parallel with this last test:
1) Modify readme for a few things: Victory conditions, Librarians, etc...
2) If I have the time, I'll try to look for some Graphics for tax collectors & Co!
Enjoy!
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
OK guys, I made a few changes and I'll ask of you a (last?) effort trying to find the problems that might remain hidden in there...
I'll send you the files in a few minutes!
Here is what I changed this time:
1. Added a name list for the cities to be built!
2. "Airbases and airports" are now complete with name, graphics and descriptions!
3. A few problems have been corrected: all civs should now be able to hire heroes, and such...
4. The truncated names problem is corrected
5. A small problem with the Dragons appearance has been corrected
6. The DD monsters (Dragons, Mummies, etc.) will appear more often and be "cheaper", so that hopefully DD will be more agressive
7. The Special-Super-Defense units are now NONE
8. The name of the ruler of Om has been changed to Ossory
9. Modify a few things related to the golems
10. All the messages related to Airlifts have been changed
11. A message has been added upon City of Ee destruction!
12. The Librarian replaces all the historians
And here is what I'll do before the release, in parallel with this last test:
1) Modify readme for a few things: Victory conditions, Librarians, etc...
2) If I have the time, I'll try to look for some Graphics for tax collectors & Co!
Enjoy! |
I've played through to about year 54 with A-M - including destroying the lost city, so I got to see the new message.  I haven't encountered anything that would be a problem that could delay release.
I like the list of new cities - particularly the first one
I've seen a few dragons and orange meanies, but they've not been a big problem - are they still a bit too much dumbed down?
The librarian and his messages are really good 
I haven't yet tried the airbases - I was building up a force of warriors to destroy the temple(?) south of Tort when I was distracted by a sneak attack from Klatch. I was about to start provoking them anyway. 
One suggestion - after playing a few times, the scenario becomes slightly easier because you know the location of the lost city and the barbarian villages. Would it be possible to randomise these?
RJM at Sleeper's
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yaroslav
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Madrid, Spain, Europe
Jun 2001
time: 06:17
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Ok, playing as Uberwald:
I like a lot these volwes!
This civ is very far-away from the Central Sea: this make them to need to build a huge road system to deploy their merchants into Ank-Morph, but, on the other hand, gives them good money for that
I went first of all against Duschen-Duschen, and I though it was an error. I think Aix-la-Achen and Kromerstadt are high priorities, because at the start of the game you need to open a route to the Central Sea as soon as possible.
I'm enjoing the game: It's summer 26 right now, and I've conquered Duschen-Duschen, Aix-la-Achen, Kromerstadt, Skund, The three cities of Sto province, Zemphis, Rham Nitz, Quim and Pseudopolis. I'm going probably against Ank-Morph in the near future, as I'm not using it as a place to dump merchants anymore. Maybe onmia or Rampton after that - or the two at the same time.
One interesting thing of being so far-away is that my catapults take a huge time to reach their destination so I'm relying a lot in the volwes...
I'm very sad for ending with such a sad sentence, but I think I've found a BUG: The temple of Omn is meant to provide a Chatedral in each city, but it doesn't work until Omnia player discover Moving Pictures, because this Wonder doesn't work if you don't have the Cathredal's technology. This is retracting Omnia from winning some cheap money in her fundy govt until it discover that technology.
Sorry if that is not a bug but rather intented. I suggest to add a new event when this technology is discovered/gained by Omnia to say "Omnia - or the current owner of the temple! - now start to profit from his important network of religious buildings"
Sorry for that.
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yaroslav
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Madrid, Spain, Europe
Jun 2001
time: 06:17
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It's spring 40 now, and the Rampton kingdom have been conquered: I divided my set of armies in two bunch, one in the west against Ohulah and one in the East (bigger) against Nothing Guild, that was easily conquered. Later, I went after Lacre it was painfull and only with a combined set of vampires, werevolwes in mountains to attract enemy's attack and suicide catapults Lancre falled. Ohulah was even worse, as they destroyed two armies (my "West" army and other new built from scrath) I sent against it. But after Lacre fall, my eastern vampires take care of that rebel city. Copperhead was easy after that.
After Rampton kingdowms, I went after A-M, and it was difficult becasue these wizzzards are not attackable for my wolves and they defend very well against my vampires.... And I didn't have any catapult left. A bunch of vampires get suicidial, destroyed the strong unit in A-M and now the three cities of A-M (A-M itself, Chirm and Istanzia) are conquered (A-M and Chirm) or near being conquered (Istanzia).
I bet that I'm going to go after Omnia right now and start working on Discovering Moving Pictures so I can get benfit from Onmia's wonder.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I tried the teleportation and it worked a treat ... except that it is called airlift in the menu. Can that be changed?
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As you might (or should ) have read in a post above, this can't be changed without modifying a file in the "core" civII folder, a thing I don't want to do as it would change the name in ALL the games of civ, and not only in this scen! So, we'll have to keep this as it is...
But I don't believe it's a big problem
quote:
Another thing I noticed is that when Omnia is played by the AI, it seems to build quisitors instead of turtles. That's not a problem in PBEM but in SP it makes Omnia easier to deal with than it should be. If you can do anything to encourage Omnia to build turtles, that would be good.
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I don't know what I could do about that! Making the turtles cheaper don't sound too good, as they are quite strong!
Or maybe I could "group" a few changes to solves different problems in 1 go:
1) reduce their cost to the same as the Quisitors' one
2) Lower their defense from 1 (if they, hopefully, are still stronger on defense than the Quisitors)
3) make them amphibious (so that Papylos can be taken)
What do you think?? Still, I might sure that would make the AI build turtles...
quote:
Also, it is possible to destroy the lost city and capture all but one capital before triggering some of the events - building the pyramid near Jelly Belly for example. I wonder whether it is worth triggering these events by the human player capturing particular (Independent?) cities rather than having them time based.
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As you realized later, not time based
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Anyway, the good news is that it seems to me that the techs and white goods are working fine (apart from the problem pointed out by Yaroslav which I hadn't noticed).
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That's good!
quote:
However, as far as I can see, it is not possible for Om to capture Papylos - which means that anyone wanting to play for total conquest can't choose to be Om. One way round it would be to make the turtles amphibious. (I've just realised that perhaps you made one of the other Om units amphibious and I haven't noticed.) That would make the turtles even more powerful, but I suspect it wouldn't matter too much. You could perhaps compensate by reducing their defensive strength - this may be worth doing anyway since they are pretty damn powerful even if a little slow
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Good suggestion, as you can read above!
And maybe changing their role to something else than "attack" might help the AI to build them?? 
quote:
Incidentally, Om seems to get quite rich quite quickly. Is it worth doing something to reduce its income, or increase its expenditure?
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Well, they are Fundy! And so, I am thinking that leaving the Temple of Om as it is (which means it doesn't give further money) might well be a good idea...
Too bad, I had found another way to make it work even better than with Yaroslav suggestion...
So it'll stay as it is, with just a little line in the Moving Picture description about the Temple of Om...
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
... towards the end of the game (as Om) I was offered the choice of researching Rincewind - which I accepted of course. When I had finished the research, I didn't actually get the wizzard, but I don't think the choice should have been offered to me.
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Of course you didn't get him! He belongs to A-M!
And there is no way to stop a civ from trading a researchable tech, sorry!
They only way AROUND it would be to use an extra tech for each National Hero, and use a few "thingummeys" and "whatchamacallit" in the event file! As I don't have spare techs, and the file is nearly full, I won't do it...
Anyway, if you had read the Rincewind tech description, it should say in the end that it's only useful for A-M...
quote:
PS: is it still possible for the AI to "lose" it's special defensive unit? In my battle to capture Lancre I didn't notice it - or maybe its in another Ramtop city.
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It shouldn't be possible...
And you would have noticed it if it were still there! And it is in Lancre! That's weird...
quote:
PPS: There doesn't seem to be a game message when you destroy Dunmanifestin (or the pyramid east of Jelly Belly). I know you're very short of space, but if you can manage to squeeze something somewhere, I think it would be useful. |
No, there isn't yet, I'll see if I can squeeze something in... Not sure, though!
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
My point was that I didn't think Om should be able to research Rincewind. Surely Ankh-Morpork should be a pre-requisit. (I hope I've got the terminology right here - I'm not really in to designing scenarios)
I think you have made one of the pre-requisits for the particular national hero the specific offensive unit for that civ (which can be traded, rather than the civ itself (which can't)
I think most players will research modern tactics fairly early because of the value of the offensive unit, so I think you don't need to make the offensive unit a pre-requisit for the hero. Of course there may be another reason that you've done it the way you have.
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Now if you were able to research it, that's something entirely different, sorry I got it wrong!
I was sure A-M was, as you suggested, a prerequisite for Rincewind! And if it ain't, then it will !! 
I'll check that tonight!
quote:
PS On the subject of "a" vs "an" in front of words that begin with h and a vowel, nowadays we regard the "dropped" h and the consequent use of "an" as being wrong and associate it with cockney and similar accents (eg - I bought an 'at yesterday). However, until relatively recently, for some words at least it was part of an upper class accent. I can imagine if not remember my old headmaster saying "an heretic" and dropping the "h". All of which has nothing to do with your scenario, but illustrates how language changes. |
OK then, it means that my english isn't too bad, only that I'm "upper class"...
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
I agree that the national heroes should be restricted to the nations. Kind of defeats the point really. I like the adjustment you've made to the tech tree, because in the games I've played then the AI civs were only too happy to give me Wizards and Flying Carpet techs. Not that it made any difference, so I traded them Turtles for something worthwhile as pay-back. I hope it won't spoil anything, but could you tell us which boats have the aircraft carrier flag? It was just that you mentioned Om's inability to take one of the island cities because they had no flying units. Therefore I presumed that the other civs could carry flying units on their boats. Klatch founded a city on the island between Klatch and A-M. This is the only one I haven't taken yet, but all that will change because I can land my turtles on the other island squares. |
First of all, I am frightfully grateful for the language tuition...
Then of course, the national heroes will be available only to their rightful civ! But there is no way to prevent the trading of the (useless) techs! And this is true for all the civ specific techs!
I could have chose a "common" flying unit tech giving WIzard to A-M, Vampire to Uberwald and so on, but then I think the game would loose much of the flavour as there would be no way for me to write the sooo nice description I did...
So you'll have to live with that (and read the descriptions, to make sure you won't trade something useless...)
On another subject: no ship has the carrier flag! What was meant was probably only that the flying units could attack the island city from a not-so-far city!
And to balance things for Omnia, I'll make turtles Amphibious...
And last, I did some testing yesterday evening regarding the building of Exquisitors and Moving Turtles by Omnia:
1) with the current rules, when both are available, the AI builds both, but more Exquisitors than Turtles
2) with a slight change of role to the Turtle (to Air superiority), the AI then seems to build more Turtles!
So I'll try to make it so: the Turtle role will be Air Superiority!
Note: this should (hopefully) not create any problem in the use of the turtle: for those who know Red Front, the Hummel role was Air sup, and the AI used it well!
Last edited by Cyrion on 06-05-2004 at 20:57
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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OK, here is a description of the modifications I did! If you don't find any problem this week, then I'll consider the scenario ready for release!
And I'll start working on the screenshots for that!
1) I lowered Death defense from 10 to 7
2) I modified a few units roles, to make sure they are built and used properly by the AI
3) Barb. Heroes and Moving Turtles are now Amphibious
4) I corrected the pre-req for the various National Heroes
5) Did a few modifications in the readme
6) Added the following descriptions upon destruction of the following units (DoY, do your duty please)
Wyrmberg:"The Wyrmberg, home of the last true dragons on the Discworld has been razed. The Dragons will soon only be present in tales..."
Pyramids:"The Great Pyramid has been caped and allowed to flare. The Mummies are now returning to their eternal rest..."
Dunmanifestin:"For the first time since Mazda stole the fire from the Gods, Dunmanifestin has been plundered by a mortal! From now on, the Gods will stop coming down from Cori Celesti to harass the mortals..."
Is that ok??
And, apart from the screenshots, I'll see if I have time for changing the elvis and such too, but I won't make any promise...
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30-04-2004 01:53
(its a crazy idea, but it might just work) Still, amphibious turtles is a better solution and has a certain biological ring to it.
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