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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
@all: Please, I really need your feedback on the following points before I can make a good update! |
I've commented on everything in your list and I think that covers your previous questions as well. If I've missed something, then give me a gentle nudge.
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1) weaken the event triggered DD units (Gods, Dragons, etc.) |
THe DD units (IMO) are tough, but not unbeatable; my suggestion is hold them at their current strength for the moment, but review before final version is issued.
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2) make the event triggered DD units (Gods, Dragons, etc.) appear less often |
I'm not sure on this. I found them quite useful for getting vet status for my flying units, but I do need to keep a lot of units back to deal with them. On balance I vote for appearing slightly less frequently.
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3) stengthen the playable civs offensive units |
Yes, as I said before I think the attack strength of the land based offensive unit should be 6 or 7.
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4) provide more public workers (by building or through events) |
Yes. But ... at the moment, the lack of public workers is one of the features that make this scenario challenging and different. I think it would be easier if there were more. It is particularly a problem if you lose a public worker early on. So how about starting with 2 workers. And once again review before the "final" version.
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5) weaken the Northern Barb and Desert Nomads units |
I don't think these have been a problem for me, so I vote for the status quo - again subject to review.
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6) are they too many blank tech |
Not in my opinion. I now understand the tech tree and I'm quite comfortable with slogging through it to get to where I want.
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7) should I mention in the tech description those which are "dangerous" ?? (like: "Beware, might attract the DD creatures attention...") |
I think this gets to the heart of how you can improve the scenario. It is quite complex and subtle. Someone like me needs a lot of help understanding how to play it. Also, I needed to play quite a few games before I got the hang of it. I think it would be very useful to keep the player interested through this "learning curve" by providing helpful messages - such as the one you quote. BTW I seem to remember that there is a setting that displays the pedia entry when a new tech is learned. If I am remembering correctly, it is worthwhile making this the default setting.
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And I changed the messages on the flying units! I'll change Uberwald to Monarchy. |
I think it would also help the atmosphere to change the message when philosophy is discovered.
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And BTW, the event file is full; should I need more in it, I would have to erase the comments inside, which I would rather not do, as they are of great help for debugging... |
I'm not sure about the implications of this. I can understand that you want to have useful debugging comments, but in the end its about making the game playable and enjoyable. How about putting the text of the comment in another file and simply keeping a note in the events file which references it.
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@rjm: glad you found the Heroes at last! and as Duke said, be careful with them: they are supposed to be useful to "crack tough nuts"... |
I've now found and recruited both Heroes  - although I've never actually used them for anything  . I did use Death to defeat the other horsemen. I suppose I could have used a Hero, but I felt it was appropriate to use death. In one of your comments to DoY you implied that it was possible to go back and recruit more Heroes. Is that what you meant - I never thought of trying it. If it is true, then it provides a possible solution to the problem with turtles that I mention below. If Heroes are a renewable resource, I don't need to hoard them quite so much.
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The updated version is planned for tomorrow evening, so that you can test it over the week-end! Provided you give me the afore-mentionned feedback till then...
And I should have time to do the same, as my girlfriend works this week-end...
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My most recent problem was the moving turtles (of Omnia). I was unable to do them any harm with either my vet wizards or my vet assasins (playing as A-M) and they made mincemeat of my watch officers (which were non vet since they had just been upgraded). Any hints on how to deal with these guys? And can they be built by all civs, or just Omnia? I seem to remember being able to build them as A-M in an early version, but I'm not sure that is still possible.
I'm enjoying trying to beat this scenario (which I haven't done yet), so I look forward to the next revision. Keep up the good work. 
RJM at Sleeper's
Last edited by rjmatsleepers on 25-03-2004 at 13:10
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I've commented on everything in your list and I think that covers your previous questions as well. If I've missed something, then give me a gentle nudge.
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No nudge needed, you did a good job
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THe DD units (IMO) are tough, but not unbeatable; my suggestion is hold them at their current strength for the moment, but review before final version is issued.
I'm not sure on this. I found them quite useful for getting vet status for my flying units, but I do need to keep a lot of units back to deal with them. On balance I vote for appearing slightly less frequently.
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OK, let's see what the other think about that!
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Yes, as I said before I think the attack strength of the land based offensive unit should be 6 or 7.
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I think so too.
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Yes. But ... at the moment, the lack of public workers is one of the features that make this scenario challenging and different. I think it would be easier if there were more. It is particularly a problem if you lose a public worker early on. So how about starting with 2 workers. And once again review before the "final" version.
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Funny, but in the initial beta I gave 2 workers to each civs and then decided to remove one! And I just decided this morning (while shaving: great time to think) that putting the 2nd worker back might be a good idea... 
And maybe make the new ones appear a regular interval (instead of random), and a little bit more frequently (up to now I think it's 1 in 40 turns, and maybe 1 in 25 or 30 would be better...)
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I don't think these have been a problem for me, so I vote for the status quo - again subject to review.
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OK!
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Not in my opinion. I now understand the tech tree and I'm quite comfortable with slogging through it to get to where I want.
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Good!
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I think this gets to the heart of how you can improve the scenario. It is quite complex and subtle. Someone like me needs a lot of help understanding how to play it. Also, I needed to play quite a few games before I got the hang of it. I think it would be very useful to keep the player interested through this "learning curve" by providing helpful messages - such as the one you quote. BTW I seem to remember that there is a setting that displays the pedia entry when a new tech is learned. If I am remembering correctly, it is worthwhile making this the default setting.
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I believe that this setting can't be changed in the scen, but in your own civ parameters only (not sure, though) 
And I think I'll include this message...
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I think it would also help the atmosphere to change the message when philosophy is discovered.
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Of course! I forgot about that one!
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I'm not sure about the implications of this. I can understand that you want to have useful debugging comments, but in the end its about making the game playable and enjoyable. How about putting the text of the comment in another file and simply keeping a note in the events file which references it.
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It helps me to find where is what! But again, if needed I can maybe make room for 1-2 more events...
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I've now found and recruited both Heroes - although I've never actually used them for anything . I did use Death to defeat the other horsemen. I suppose I could have used a Hero, but I felt it was appropriate to use death. In one of your comments to DoY you implied that it was possible to go back and recruit more Heroes. Is that what you meant - I never thought of trying it. If it is true, then it provides a possible solution to the problem with turtles that I mention below. If Heroes are a renewable resource, I don't need to hoard them quite so much.
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Do you really believe there is only 1 barbarian in a village
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My most recent problem was the moving turtles (of Omnia). I was unable to do them any harm with either my vet wizards or my vet assasins (playing as A-M) and they made mincemeat of my watch officers (which were non vet since they had just been upgraded). Any hints on how to deal with these guys? And can they be built by all civs, or just Omnia? I seem to remember being able to build them as A-M in an early version, but I'm not sure that is still possible.
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The turtles can only be built by Omnia (who don't have any flying unit!); it was a bug in the 1st version which allowed you to build them. There are supposed to be hard to destroy by flying unit (Aegis flag, I think), but I'm surprised that even vet assassins had problems against them (didn't try it though).
I guess that raising the offensive units stats to 6-7 (as stated in the point above) might do the trick
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I'm enjoying trying to beat this scenario (which I haven't done yet), so I look forward to the next revision. Keep up the good work.
RJM at Sleeper's |
On the subject of "beating the scen": should I make victory conditions? And what to do if the City of Ee is destroyed??
Now waiting for Duke of York answer (which will probably come around 12 GMT )
EDIT: his answer came while I typed mine...
And Arthedain, are you still there?
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
I realise that this could be loads of work for you, but is it possible to show which techs are the prerequisite to the various units when you look at the units in the civilopedia?  that would be exceptionally useful, because then I'd know where to get which units, and, more specifically, which techs to research to get there. This would save lots of time ferreting around the civilopedia, and mean I could spend more time picking prime sites to build loads of cities.
All right, managing production for even more caravans and units!
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The "buildable" units already display their prerequisite in the civilopedia, don't they? And by clicking on this tech you can follow the branch to the root.
The units you get by techs, though, don't show which tech will give them: would you like to see it in the tech description?? As they aren't too many of them, I think I could change it without too much work.
Or would you like something else?? Please tell, and if it's not too much work I'll see what I can do...
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Can I have the latest version by e-mail please Cyrion, so that I can play with that this weekend. More comments to come on Monday I promise. |
Of course you'll get it by e-mail: I'll update tonight and send it!
You're the reason why I'll update tonight, as I believe you ave no access to the web on week-ends
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duke o' york
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What nonsense! I'm dial-up man, superhero extraordinaire - always looking out for those poor souls with slow net connections and sharing their pain. By day I'm an ordinary worker in an office, with speedy broadband, but by night.....
With regard to your civilopedia, I looked at various units to see what their stats were, and the top line (that tells you which tech prerequisite they have) was blank. 
I'll check again tomorrow night, but I definitely couldn't work out which techs I needed for which units very well.
I was disappointed to constantly research techs that didn't give me anything to build in my cities, whether units or white goods. I'll just have to take more care when choosing techs next time. Maybe by using the info button when making a tech choice.....
Also, I know that you have turned off the ability to click on cities and find out what goods they demand, and F5 is now useless (until a certain tech as I understand it), but when you build a caravan you can still see which cities demand which goods, and it's not so tough to remember what's going where. Is there any way of stopping this, or would it be worthwhile to bring back F5? Just a thought....
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
What nonsense! I'm dial-up man, superhero extraordinaire - always looking out for those poor souls with slow net connections and sharing their pain. By day I'm an ordinary worker in an office, with speedy broadband, but by night.....
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quote:
With regard to your civilopedia, I looked at various units to see what their stats were, and the top line (that tells you which tech prerequisite they have) was blank.
I'll check again tomorrow night, but I definitely couldn't work out which techs I needed for which units very well.
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Is it really so?? I'm so surprised I'll have to check...
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I was disappointed to constantly research techs that didn't give me anything to build in my cities, whether units or white goods. I'll just have to take more care when choosing techs next time. Maybe by using the info button when making a tech choice.....
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I know your feeling, as I really like techs to give me somtehing "material" at once when playing! I'll check how it is, but I really believe nearly every second tech (while following the same branch and not "straying", of course) should give you something (which IMO is good enough)! I'll check that too!
And of course, if most of the testers agree with you, I'll try to modify that, even if I don't fully agree
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Also, I know that you have turned off the ability to click on cities and find out what goods they demand, and F5 is now useless (until a certain tech as I understand it), but when you build a caravan you can still see which cities demand which goods, and it's not so tough to remember what's going where. Is there any way of stopping this, or would it be worthwhile to bring back F5? Just a thought....
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Yes, maybe it would be a good idea to give this information from the start (as I don't know how I could prevent the information to be known when building the freight...); I'll see what influence it would have on my tehc tree (shouldn't be big...)
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
The turtles can only be built by Omnia (who don't have any flying unit!); it was a bug in the 1st version which allowed you to build them. There are supposed to be hard to destroy by flying unit (Aegis flag, I think), but I'm surprised that even vet assassins had problems against them (didn't try it though).
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The turtle has a bonus against 2-move units, so a vet turtle on a river (or anything stronger) out guns a vet assassin.
In my latest game (as Klatch) I got a little help from my "friends". I had deliberately refrained from provoking Omnia until I had captured all the Independent cites close by. Then Omnia sneak attacked my scout and continued it's attack by losing 3 scouts against my defended city. In my experience, the best way of getting a ceasefire is to capture an AI city so I overwhelmed an Omnian city with my carpets. No cease fire, but the turtles struck the newly acquired city. Since it contained a lot of carpets, the turtles couldn't capture it and I notice that they don't like to continue an attack once they are wounded. I then captured another Omnia city and at last they offered a cease fire. At this point (well probably a move or two later), the "orange meanies" stepped in and captured a couple of Omnian cities as well. Omnia was reduced to a single city (a long way away) and I easily took the former Omnian cities from the DD.
BTW now I know how to get a repeat supply of Heroes, I've been knocking the socks off any Monster of Ee that comes too close. 
Something happened in this game that may be a bug or may be a feature. I noticed an orange "doo-hickey" on the map close to one of my cities. I suspected it might be the source of the orange bad guys so I sent a Hero to investigate with a couple of carpets riding shotgun. I didn't notice that I'd left my city undefended, so the DD walked in and at that point the "doo-hickey" disapeared. Sorry that this is not a more helpful description of what happened - if I get a chance, I'll look at the units to see if I can recognise the "doo-hickey".
I've received the latest version and although I have some RL things to do this weekend, I'll probably try to get a few turns in.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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OK, first what has been changed :
1) Message for Philosophy
2) Modified all (hopefully) texts related to Senate
3) Removed Independents scouts
4) Changed Uberwald to monarchy
5) Lowered turtle stats (from 8/5 to 7/4)
6) Improved offensive units from 5/3 to 6/3
7) Workers every 30 turns ; 2 from start
8) Less often (5 turns instead of 3 : Dragons, Mummy, Gods ; 3 turns instead of 1 : Monster of Ee)
And I checked the prerequisite in the unit desciriptions; they are 2 cases:
1) "buildable units": as I thought, unit description shows the tech prerequisite, and you can easily follow the branch to its root, like in vanilla civ!
2) units gained via events: then of course there is no prerequisite, and I'll need to write in the unit description
which tech gives them! (I had no time to do it yesterday, so yoi'll have to "survive" without it this week-end, sorry )
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Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
The turtle has a bonus against 2-move units, so a vet turtle on a river (or anything stronger) out guns a vet assassin.
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Yes, but I believe this "pikemen" bonus isn't effective against units with HP/FP higher than 1/1. I'm not 100% sure though...
Anyway, with Assassins attack higher by 1, and Turtle defense lower by 1, the fight should be more balanced And remember Omnia has no Flying unit, so they need something to compensate for this
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BTW now I know how to get a repeat supply of Heroes, I've been knocking the socks off any Monster of Ee that comes too close.
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And do you like the Heroes? Strong enough? not too strong? Should I substract some money when you "hire" one??
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Something happened in this game that may be a bug or may be a feature. I noticed an orange "doo-hickey" on the map close to one of my cities. I suspected it might be the source of the orange bad guys so I sent a Hero to investigate with a couple of carpets riding shotgun. I didn't notice that I'd left my city undefended, so the DD walked in and at that point the "doo-hickey" disapeared. Sorry that this is not a more helpful description of what happened - if I get a chance, I'll look at the units to see if I can recognise the "doo-hickey".
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I'm afraid I might need more explanations on the "doo-hickey"
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I've received the latest version and although I have some RL things to do this weekend, I'll probably try to get a few turns in.
RJM at Sleeper's |
You have a RL?? Lucky guy
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duke o' york
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You're absolutely right about the pikeman bonus.
I'm going to try some more this weekend. I too will probably get an enormous stack of heroes. It's a shame that you lose the scouts when you kill the village, but that just means I'll have to produce lots of them to do the dirty work for me. Can I get more than one per turn, or does the village only regenerate between turns?
Also, rjm - what's a doo hickey when it's at home? Were you referring to that weird square at the bottom of the map by Klatch with nothing in it, but instantly kills units you send to attack it? The square where the Pyramid will appear in perhaps? When I heard about the appearance of the pyramid, then I was tempted to find this square and then build a city on it, in the hope that the pyramid would then be given to my civ, but that's impossible in this scenario, and I doubt it works like that in others, but I was just hoping....
Who else was playtesting this Cyrion? We haven't heard much from anyone else, but with the massive posts that rjm and I have made then the changes are definitely being made. Maybe too many... Ideally, it shouldn't just be a scenario written for just rjm and myself, but if the other testers don't give their views then it may end up like that. But you'll have two definite fans! And doubtless more, when it is released.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
You're absolutely right about the pikeman bonus.
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Thought so! Lurking in the forum pays, after all...
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I'm going to try some more this weekend. I too will probably get an enormous stack of heroes. It's a shame that you lose the scouts when you kill the village, but that just means I'll have to produce lots of them to do the dirty work for me. Can I get more than one per turn, or does the village only regenerate between turns?
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Actually I decided to destroy the scout so that:
1) you don't get a hero at no cost
2) you can't keep on using the same scout to provide a hero every turn!
Both might lead to a nearly exclusive use of heroes, which I wouldn't want (as I provided plenty of Excellent other units )
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Also, rjm - what's a doo hickey when it's at home? Were you referring to that weird square at the bottom of the map by Klatch with nothing in it, but instantly kills units you send to attack it? The square where the Pyramid will appear in perhaps? When I heard about the appearance of the pyramid, then I was tempted to find this square and then build a city on it, in the hope that the pyramid would then be given to my civ, but that's impossible in this scenario, and I doubt it works like that in others, but I was just hoping....
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If I had allowed you to build a city (or even place an unit) on the square, you wouldn't have gotten the Pyramid, but you could have prevented its appearance!
Actually, it's lucky for you that I blocked the square with an impassable unit, because I destroy everything on the square via changeterrain before I create the pyramid, which means your city would have been razed... 
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Who else was playtesting this Cyrion? We haven't heard much from anyone else, but with the massive posts that rjm and I have made then the changes are definitely being made. Maybe too many... Ideally, it shouldn't just be a scenario written for just rjm and myself, but if the other testers don't give their views then it may end up like that. But you'll have two definite fans! And doubtless more, when it is released. |
The other playtesters are Case (who has a new job and so not much time), Yaroslav (new job too, and probably still shocked from the event in Madrid) and Arthedain (who is, I believe, busy working on a Middle Earth scenario), which explains why they didn't give much feedback in the last weeks!
Nonetheless, I would be glad if they could just put a few turns in this week-end and send some comments too!
And I don't feel like it'll be a "scenario written for just rjm and yourself", but rather a "scenario written WITH rjm and yourself"! You're both being of tremendous help, and I can only thank you once more!
I really believe the points you submited and I changed are really worthwhile and should be enjoyable for most of the soon-to-be players!
And trust me, if I don't agree with something, then I won't make a change
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
I'm going to try some more this weekend. I too will probably get an enormous stack of heroes. It's a shame that you lose the scouts when you kill the village, but that just means I'll have to produce lots of them to do the dirty work for me. Can I get more than one per turn, or does the village only regenerate between turns? |
I decided to try this approach as well. I am playing Ramtops. I captured all the cities on route to the barbarian village and then built a road to it - actually to just short of it since the last section of road seems to get itself destroyed. I then sent a stream of scouts in that direction and despite sometimes failing to win with the 1st scout I am recruiting 1 hero per turn. After that, it's just a question of using enough heroes to capture the city you're targeting. As far as I can see, it will be straightforward to do the same thing with the other barb village and get 2 heroes per turn. Unless I'm missing something, this will provide a path to victory which requires no research, no white goods and no wonders. This seems to be a very uninteresting way to play a scenario that has so many complex features. I suggest that the barb village only reapears every 10 turns. This would mean that player has to think about how to use the hero.
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Also, rjm - what's a doo hickey when it's at home? Were you referring to that weird square at the bottom of the map by Klatch with nothing in it, but instantly kills units you send to attack it? The square where the Pyramid will appear in perhaps?
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A doo hickey? Well it's a bit like a cross between a widget and a thingamyjig except without the whatchamacallits at the end of the doo-dahs. The location was to the south and east of Kom so not the place where the pyramid appears, but not far away. I think it looked like an orange house with a pointy roof, but I looked through all the gifs and couldn't find anything like it. Perhaps it was a senior moment or a glitch in my video driver.
BTW Cyrion, is there a way of making these tiles where something will appear more visable? One of my Heroes walked into one in the north west part of the map and it's a real pain trying to remember exactly where it is.
And one more small message change. There are references to the great wall when a diplomatic exchange leads to a forced cease fire.
Sorry to keep suggesting changes, but I think you have a really good scenario here that could become great with a few tweaks.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I decided to try this approach as well. I am playing Ramtops. I captured all the cities on route to the barbarian village and then built a road to it - actually to just short of it since the last section of road seems to get itself destroyed. I then sent a stream of scouts in that direction and despite sometimes failing to win with the 1st scout I am recruiting 1 hero per turn. After that, it's just a question of using enough heroes to capture the city you're targeting. As far as I can see, it will be straightforward to do the same thing with the other barb village and get 2 heroes per turn. Unless I'm missing something, this will provide a path to victory which requires no research, no white goods and no wonders. This seems to be a very uninteresting way to play a scenario that has so many complex features. I suggest that the barb village only reapears every 10 turns. This would mean that player has to think about how to use the hero.
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Brilliant, rjm!
Would you believe it's something that was bothering me from the start?
And you just provided the easiest way to solve it (which I wasn't able to find on my own...)! So yes, that's what I'll do, so that the Barbarian heroes remain very useful, but in no way exclusive! The only question is how often the village would reappear, as I think 1 in 10 turns might be not enough... Maybe 1 in 8??
Anyway, I'll implement it at once in the game I'll play his week-end, and see what it brings!
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A doo hickey? Well it's a bit like a cross between a widget and a thingamyjig except without the whatchamacallits at the end of the doo-dahs.
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I had guessed so far (BTW, did you read Ray Bradbury's tale: "Doodad"?? it appears in a book called "the wizards of Odd" which features short fantasy novels, and it somehow reminds me of your answer...)
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The location was to the south and east of Kom so not the place where the pyramid appears, but not far away. I think it looked like an orange house with a pointy roof, but I looked through all the gifs and couldn't find anything like it. Perhaps it was a senior moment or a glitch in my video driver.
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Ok, I'll put it down as a senior moment... erh a video driver glitch, of course... (BTW, are you senior enough to have 1 of those moments ?? )
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BTW Cyrion, is there a way of making these tiles where something will appear more visable? One of my Heroes walked into one in the north west part of the map and it's a real pain trying to remember exactly where it is.
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Yes, there is, and there even was! (and don't worry, there will be)
Actually I moved the shield to hide the unit, which was maybe not such a brilliant idea... I'll put it back where you can see it
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And one more small message change. There are references to the great wall when a diplomatic exchange leads to a forced cease fire.
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Right, I'll change that! Thanks for spotting it!
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Sorry to keep suggesting changes, but I think you have a really good scenario here that could become great with a few tweaks.
RJM at Sleeper's |
My friend, I'm really glad you keep on suggesting changes (otherwise, I wouldn't need playtesters... , and I am immensely grateful for the feedback you and Duke of York (and the others before) provide!
And believe me, most of the time (if not always!), I fully agree with you! And as I said, if I don't agree, I don't change it...
And thanks for your kind words: I'm starting to believe I might be able to release something good!
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Despite the fact that I used to read a lot of Sci Fi, I've never really got on with Bradbury, although I've tried a few.
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I'm no Bradbury's fan either, but I just read this novel in a collection (which I bought because there is a novel by Pratchett too) and it features words such as "thingumabobs", "doodads", whatchamacallits", "hinkies", "formodaldafrays", "hootinannies" and "doohingies".
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Senior moment? Well there's another thread that reveals that along with quite a few other contributors to this site I was born in the golden year of 1947, so I'm certainly going to claim that I'm entitled to a senior moment.
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Ok, guess you're entitled
I actually just came back from a football (the real, european, one) game, and as my teammates are 10-15 years younger than me (which doesn't show too much on the field ), I'm quite glad I'm not the older one here
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I played some more turns in the current game yesterday; nothing much to report. I've established a lot of trade routes to A-M, but the stupid AI has let it drop to size 12 which makes it less rewarding than it was earlier in the game. It's still not bad though - one undemanded delivery typically pays all my running expenses for over a year.
The route to the second barb village is taking longer to establish (or perhaps I'm taking longer to play the turns with a larger kingdom to manage). And one of the cities on route survived an attack by 7 heroes. I've got another 5 lined up to have a second bite at it and I doubt that it will be able to survive that.
RJM at Sleeper's |
Sounds good Enjoy the game!
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Teach them a lesson? It's a computer for heaven's sake. It doesn't have any feelings. It won't even know that it's been taught a lesson. It won't remember that its been taught a lesson. It will play exactly the same way next time. And so I suspect will I. Like the Bourbons I can remember nothing and forget nothing. 
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I must admit that I like trying to teach the computer a lesson! And it doesn't learn, no prob: that will give me more opportunities to vent my frustration in the future
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But to return to the game for a moment. Because of the size of the map and the need to have enough units of the right type to make the next move, there are periods in the game that involve a lot of micro management and little action. It would be good if there were some form of activity or (perhaps) story line to keep the player's interest through these parts of the game. However, I can offer no suggestion.
Perhaps I should go and investigate that mysterious new island with its untold riches. But that would involve building a boat and diverting some of my army away from its next conquest.
Perhaps you could arrange for the librarian to give random updates on the state of play in much the same way as the game gives us lists of the richest, happiest, etc from time to time.
How about an oracle that can be visited in a similar way to the barbarian villages. The "attacking" unit is transported back to your capital and the oracle mutters a random and inpenetrable prediction (and gives you a bonus to your tech research). I suspect that you have little space left to attempt anything like that and I'm not sure such a thing exists anywhere on the disk. Oh well, back to the game.
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Now we are no longer talking about tweaking! I'll see if I can find something to keep the players interested in the middle part of the game, but I have no idea right now!
And as you correctly supposed, I have very little space left to do that: I might add 1-2 simple vents, but have no unit slot left!
What I can do is fool around with the historians and replace them all with the librarian, but that would give me very little in the way of creativity! (but it would allow me to say "Ook" a lot, which is not to be disdained ).
So it wouldn't bring much, except some more atmosphere, but I'll probably do something about it!
If anybody has another idea, please tell!!
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
there are periods in the game that involve a lot of micro management and little action. It would be good if there were some form of activity or (perhaps) story line to keep the player's interest through these parts of the game. However, I can offer no suggestion.
...
How about an oracle that can be visited in a similar way to the barbarian villages. The "attacking" unit is transported back to your capital and the oracle mutters a random and inpenetrable prediction (and gives you a bonus to your tech research). I suspect that you have little space left to attempt anything like that and I'm not sure such a thing exists anywhere on the disk. Oh well, back to the game.
RJM at Sleeper's |
About this "weak/uneventful" middle part of the game, here is what I could do:
Up to now, 2 techs trigger the appearance of Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, Great Pyramid of Tsort and Tezuman Temple.
What I could do is make these DD units appear at some definite times (instead of tech discovery) and give some hints about where they are via messages, so that a quest could be launched to find them, as their discovery (and sacking) brings a lot of money (would 5000 gold be correct?? )? And I could make it 4 times (once for each of the 4 units) which could "occupy" a few rounds... This is, if I can make some room in my events file, of course (should be doable...).
What do you think??
(and I would of course reuse the 2 techs somewhere else in my tree, as there are bl00dy nice descriptions I wrote for them )
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
About this "weak/uneventful" middle part of the game, here is what I could do:
Up to now, 2 techs trigger the appearance of Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, Great Pyramid of Tsort and Tezuman Temple.
What I could do is make these DD units appear at some definite times (instead of tech discovery) and give some hints about where they are via messages, so that a quest could be launched to find them, as their discovery (and sacking) brings a lot of money (would 5000 gold be correct?? )? And I could make it 4 times (once for each of the 4 units) which could "occupy" a few rounds... This is, if I can make some room in my events file, of course (should be doable...).
What do you think??
(and I would of course reuse the 2 techs somewhere else in my tree, as there are bl00dy nice descriptions I wrote for them ) |
This sounds like a good idea. I sacked one of them once, but I was disapointed with the result. I'd prefer a free tech (or a barbarian warrior) to lots of gold.
Another possibility that might help is being able magically to transport goods and units to another city (airlift). Distances are long and without railroads, it takes time to move around.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
This sounds like a good idea. I sacked one of them once, but I was disapointed with the result. I'd prefer a free tech (or a barbarian warrior) to lots of gold.
Another possibility that might help is being able magically to transport goods and units to another city (airlift). Distances are long and without railroads, it takes time to move around.
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There's no way I know to give you a free tech (I mean, except a specific one that you would then don't need to research?? that could be an idea...).
What do you think: upon sacking one of them places, you get heaps of gold + the National Hero tech (which has no less than 10 direct or indirect pre-requisites...)?
Maybe I could make 2 sets of techs (2 places giving 1 tech, and the 2 others the 2nd one), but what would then be the 2nd one?
Now about airlift: yes, I think I could easily allow for a replacement for Airport (what would it be? Teleportation pod??), which I could make buildable upon research (hey, I think I might now have 2 free tech slots too bad about the already written descriptions ), but REALLY expensive, as I wouldn't want too many of them!
Hey, wait, wasn't I looking for a tech you would get by discovering a place? Now, what if THE ONLY WAY to build teleportation or whatever was to pillage such a place? Sounds neat, doesn't it?? And I coul even make that tech untradable...
What do you all (and by all, I mean Case, Arthedan, Yaroslav and others too, not only rjm and Duke of yorkthink about all this?
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
There's no way I know to give you a free tech (I mean, except a specific one that you would then don't need to research?? that could be an idea...).
What do you think: upon sacking one of them places, you get heaps of gold + the National Hero tech (which has no less than 10 direct or indirect pre-requisites...)?
Maybe I could make 2 sets of techs (2 places giving 1 tech, and the 2 others the 2nd one), but what would then be the 2nd one?
Now about airlift: yes, I think I could easily allow for a replacement for Airport (what would it be? Teleportation pod??), which I could make buildable upon research (hey, I think I might now have 2 free tech slots too bad about the already written descriptions ), but REALLY expensive, as I wouldn't want too many of them!
Hey, wait, wasn't I looking for a tech you would get by discovering a place? Now, what if THE ONLY WAY to build teleportation or whatever was to pillage such a place? Sounds neat, doesn't it?? And I coul even make that tech untradable...
What do you all (and by all, I mean Case, Arthedan, Yaroslav and others too, not only rjm and Duke of yorkthink about all this? |
I like the idea of a tech that can only be obtained by sacking one of those places and teleportation sounds good. Alternatively, if you can't give a tech, can you give some beakers?
As far as words for the librarian (historian) are concerned, I'll get back to you if I can think of anything.
RJM at Sleeper's
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25-03-2004 12:55
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