16-04-2004 12:18									#301
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Autumn 87 and Klatchian forces enter the city of Bonk thus bringing the whole of the civilized disk into the Kingdom of Klatch.

[Actually if you go for controlling 4 out of 5 capitals, the game would have ended a few turns earlier.]

I still find the distances between the Sto Plains and Ram Tops (and Uberwald) tediously large, but at least the increased offensive power of the land unit allows them to come to the aid of the out-of-range flying unit. Of course a sensible AI would pick them of with their own flying units, but fortunately the AI is not very good at the game.

In this game the orange meanines were a paper tiger. I'm not sure how much of this was due to you dumbing them down and how much due to taking out the things that generated them. It may be worth taking them back up again slightly.

The Civilopedia "game concepts" seems to have entries for the original game. Can you change this? Are you intending to?

I leafed through my Discworld Companion and found a few names, but when I checked you'd already used some of them. I think the following are unused, but I may be wrong.

Klatch - Nef
Ram Tops - Razorback, Slippery Hollow

plus the following that I can't remember which country they are close to - Bas Pelargic, Pandemonium, Crinix, Scrote, Hung Hung, Cutshade Forest, Brown Islands.

Here are a couple of Sto puns that (I think) aren't too mono cultural - Sto V'pipe, Sto Ned. Of course you could actually include my mythical Djellibelli. And Om should have a Pom-pom

I also wondered about changing the icons used for einsteins and elvises - say a miniature Rincewind for one and a lady of negotiable affection for the other. And something for tax men, but I can't think what for the moment.

On the subject of Omnian turtles, I get the impression that they cease to be the AI's first choice build at some point. Presumably after the discovery of another tech, but I'm not sure which one. Life gets a lot easier for Klatch when Omnia stops building turtles - I'm not sure what you can do about this, but it may be worth thinking about.

I think that's enough for one day - good luck!

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-04-2004 12:37									#302
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Turtles are always my first choice build!

Perhaps an A-M merchant instead of the tax collector.
And for the red and black people, then I don't know enough about Discworld to suggest suitable changes, but perhaps stages on the road to beggary to suggest spending too long in A-M? That's beggary by the way!

	16-04-2004 20:16									#303
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First of all, a few comments:

1) as you noticed, I didn't post any new version yesterday, because I spent my evening playing the scen . I am now in 30 (about), and have launched my attack against Uberwald! My witches are slaughtering their guards, and I'm eager to get the tech that will allow me to build airbases! I destroyed Leshp and Holy Wood already, so Esme Weatherwax is at hand! And I'm getting close to the end of the tech-tree

2) I decided not to make the new version yesterday as I will change quite a lot of (very minor) things, which is even more confirmed by your comments!

3) I made some tests, and it seems that the "Radio" tech is really needed for airports to work, so the change will be done in next version!

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers Autumn 87 and Klatchian forces enter the city of Bonk thus bringing the whole of the civilized disk into the Kingdom of Klatch. [Actually if you go for controlling 4 out of 5 capitals, the game would have ended a few turns earlier.]

Well done

quote: I still find the distances between the Sto Plains and Ram Tops (and Uberwald) tediously large, but at least the increased offensive power of the land unit allows them to come to the aid of the out-of-range flying unit. Of course a sensible AI would pick them of with their own flying units, but fortunately the AI is not very good at the game.

Yes, the distances are a bit too large, but (IMO) not enough so that I have the courage to redo the map and reimplement everything

And with airports and airbases, the situation would be slightly improved, I think.

BTW, what do you think about the new rate of appearance of Public Workers? In my game, I have few enough to take care of them and not build many cities, and enough to build roads and such, and when necessary "airbases" cities!

quote: In this game the orange meanines were a paper tiger. I'm not sure how much of this was due to you dumbing them down and how much due to taking out the things that generated them. It may be worth taking them back up again slightly.

They were weak in my game too, but I might know the game too well and be too prepared to react against them...

Anyway I am now playing with "strengthened" barbarians and nomads (Offense 5 instead of 4), and I'll probably end up re-increasing the rate of appearance of the monsters to their previous level, or close to that!

quote: The Civilopedia "game concepts" seems to have entries for the original game. Can you change this? Are you intending to?

Yes, I should change that, if I find them! Which text do you have in mind??

And I'll change the text about airlift, scrambling units and such too!

quote: Klatch - Nef Ram Tops - Razorback, Slippery Hollow

Good!

quote: plus the following that I can't remember which country they are close to - Bas Pelargic, Pandemonium, Crinix, Scrote, Hung Hung, Cutshade Forest, Brown Islands.

Bas Pelargic, Pandemonium, Hung Hung, Brown Islands: no, too far

Crinix: Klatch (actually an island north of Ephebe)

Scrote, Cutshade Forest: : sounds like RK

quote: Here are a couple of Sto puns that (I think) aren't too mono cultural - Sto V'pipe, Sto Ned. Of course you could actually include my mythical Djellibelli. And Om should have a Pom-pom

Like Sto Ned and Pom-pom

quote: I also wondered about changing the icons used for einsteins and elvises - say a miniature Rincewind for one and a lady of negotiable affection for the other. And something for tax men, but I can't think what for the moment.

Excellent idea! Provide them, please

quote: On the subject of Omnian turtles, I get the impression that they cease to be the AI's first choice build at some point. Presumably after the discovery of another tech, but I'm not sure which one. Life gets a lot easier for Klatch when Omnia stops building turtles - I'm not sure what you can do about this, but it may be worth thinking about.

Now that could be a problem! Do they stop to build them completely, or do they just slow their production?

I'll have to investigate this, as from the units stat they should not be stopping to build them...

	16-04-2004 20:22									#304
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Turtles are always my first choice build!

Can't say I'm surprised...

quote: Perhaps an A-M merchant instead of the tax collector. And for the red and black people, then I don't know enough about Discworld to suggest suitable changes, but perhaps stages on the road to beggary to suggest spending too long in A-M? That's beggary by the way!

would like that! could you help providing them

	16-04-2004 20:39									#305
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Only if I can draw them in MS Paint in 2 minutes!

	16-04-2004 20:53									#306
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2 minutes! wow, you're quick! If I had known that before, I would have asked for more graphics...

	17-04-2004 10:50									#307
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion First of all, a few comments: BTW, what do you think about the new rate of appearance of Public Workers? In my game, I have few enough to take care of them and not build many cities, and enough to build roads and such, and when necessary "airbases" cities!

The rate of appearance of public workers seems fairly good. It still takes quite a while to build roads between all Klatchian cities let alone irrigation, etc.

quote: Yes, I should change the game concepts, if I find them! Which text do you have in mind??

It wasn't the text so much as the listing of things that are not in the game - railroads for example.

quote: And I'll change the text about airlift, scrambling units and such too!

Good idea!

quote: Excellent idea! Provide them, please

If you can provide an illustration of Rincewind, I can convert it into a suitable icon - but I suspect you can do that as well. As fo LoNA, I don't have any copyright free pictures, but I'll see what I can come up with.

quote: Now that could be a problem! Do they stop to build turtles completely, or do they just slow their production?

I'm not sure - I'm afraid I've never actually switched players to see what is going on. I simply have the impression that at some point they stopped throwing turtles at me and started using another unit. It may be something to do with the shields required to build them.

quote: I'll have to investigate this, as from the units stat they should not be stopping to build them...

Good luck!

RJM at Sleeper's

	18-04-2004 23:53									#308
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Hi cyrion!

After I'm starting to get used to live in Madrid I'm playing SP civ2 games again. First of all, I like the scen A LOT.

I've played as Omnia: it wasn't too hard, I lost 2 cities, but I opened the way from my capital to Ank-Morph and I dumped caravan after caravan in the city (as duke o' york did). I've used the turttles a lot and I find them very powerful, specially for their defense bonus against flying and quick units.

However, I've also built some Quisitors, not only because I love the graphic , but also becasue as they move 2 are very good to explore the roads, so the DD units can't destroy my turtles.

One minor, minor bug: The message to be readed after the Spell to destroy the portal is lost cause not enough fuel could be changed to something more colorful

	19-04-2004 14:11									#309
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Rather than start again, I just used my previous save game with the 3rd edition of the scenario. I hope that this didn't cause any problems.
I still couldn't get hold of any heroes, but this may be because of the above. However, I did get a message saying that Ramtop kingdoms had recruited a hero!
I wiped out all of Klatch's mainland cities, but they have founded a new city on an island between them and A-M. I also destroyed the Pyramid with a load of turtles, and have set my sights on Sto-Lat with even more turtles. Interestingly, I found that Al-Klatch's-capital-whatever-it-is-called was really easy to capture as it was only defended by 2 nomads or whatever the basic units are. The reason for this was that I had occupied all of the land tiles around it to starve them of both food and shields, and the AI had disbanded the super-defensive desert and kept the two basic units. Hopefully my starvation of A-M will have the same effect.
Is there any way that you can ensure the AI keeps the strong defenders and loses the other units in each capital?

	19-04-2004 20:39									#310
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Rather than start again, I just used my previous save game with the 3rd edition of the scenario. I hope that this didn't cause any problems. I still couldn't get hold of any heroes, but this may be because of the above.

Yes, that's why you didn't get them! Some of the changes will work, and other won't...

But you're right to wait before starting a new version, as I'll do much (minor) tweaking (text files mostly, and the few points notified in the previous posts) and release the next (hopefully last) version

quote: Is there any way that you can ensure the AI keeps the strong defenders and loses the other units in each capital?

Interesting tactics

And to answer your question: yes, there is a way (I think), and even an easy one: I'll just make all the super-defensive units NONE, and so remove any reason why they should be disbanded...

	20-04-2004 13:34									#311
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That is the simplest way to do it!
Then I may well have a more difficult challenge when taking capitals. Something more along the lines of rjm's losing zillions of flying carpets against enemy capitals.
I'm off on the quest for the City of Ee next though.
A-M beat me in building Death, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of the 3 horsemen, so I hope that they have been polished off by another civ. I'm researching portal closure at the moment, so will still need more time before I can destroy Ee, but a huge force of turtles should be enough to contain the hordes leaving the gateway. I haven't seen Hollywood yet.

	20-04-2004 21:00									#312
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quote: Originally posted by yaroslav Hi cyrion! After I'm starting to get used to live in Madrid I'm playing SP civ2 games again. First of all, I like the scen A LOT.

Thanks!

quote: One minor, minor bug: The message to be readed after the Spell to destroy the portal is lost cause not enough fuel could be changed to something more colorful

I fully agree! That's why I changed it even before your comment! You'll see in the next version!

	20-04-2004 21:07									#313
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First, bad news!

I'm not able to change the list that appear in the tool bar at the top, and namely the "airlift", "buil airbase" and such in the "orders" menu! For more detail about that, check my "Technical questions" thread!

By chance, it's not too bad, but I think it's a shame for the atmosphere...

And then, good news!

I think I got it for the "historian/librarian" interventions, I just need some help on a few of them!

Here is how it will go:

Common text:

The Librarian of Unseen University completes his epic history: 'Ook', or 'The Civilizations SPECIFIC on the Disc'

With SPECIFIC being replaced by, for the different categories:

WEALTHIEST : with the most bananas
MOST POWERFUL : with the largest cheek pads
MOST ADVANCED : with the most complete Library (if you can provide a better one, don't hesitate!)
HAPPIEST : with the best rubber ring
LARGEST : with the highest tree (if you can provide a better one, don't hesitate!)

What do you think??

And if you have a proposal to replace the adjective (puny, hopeless, mighty,...) used for the ratings, please shoot! Otherwise, I'll keep them as they are

	21-04-2004 11:01									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion Here is how it will go: Common text: The Librarian of Unseen University completes his epic history: 'Ook', or 'The Civilizations SPECIFIC on the Disc' With SPECIFIC being replaced by, for the different categories: WEALTHIEST : with the most bananas MOST POWERFUL : with the largest cheek pads MOST ADVANCED : with the most complete Library (if you can provide a better one, don't hesitate!) HAPPIEST : with the best rubber ring LARGEST : with the highest tree (if you can provide a better one, don't hesitate!) What do you think?? And if you have a proposal to replace the adjective (puny, hopeless, mighty,...) used for the ratings, please shoot! Otherwise, I'll keep them as they are

I think they're good - definitely add to the atmosphere.

RJM at Sleeper's

	22-04-2004 00:17									#315
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Nice texts

	22-04-2004 13:12									#316
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That's fine. The ratings should stay as they are though - we wouldn't want to scare off ordinary civvers just on the lookout for a great scenario. Maybe you could explain the bananas, etc. somewhere in a text file, just so that people don't get too confused if (like me), they're unfamiliar with the Discworld. One of my friends offered to lend me his favourite novel a few weeks ago, but then left for San Francisco on holiday a fortnight ago. Lucky bugger.
Afriad that I didn't get any more played last night, but am happy with everything so far. I just want to get the portal closed to ensure that that works properly, and then maybe play a few turns with Uberwald, if no-one else has done this yet.

	23-04-2004 03:09									#317
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OK, thanks to all for the comments!

I just put the text as decribed above!

And I found a graphic for the Landing Tower (Airbase).

OK, here is how I see the scen development: next week I'll put in the last modifications (yeah, I know, I was supposed to do it this week...), following your comments/observations up to that point in time, and then we'll test it for 1 more week before (hopefully) releasing our work!

	23-04-2004 13:39									#318
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YOUR work!

	26-04-2004 14:26									#319
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For the replacments for puny, hopeless, mighty, etc.

Top Banana
Bananarific
Bananalicious
Banana
Ripe Banana
Bruised Banana
Banana-less

Something like that.

	26-04-2004 15:59									#320
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Someone should make a poll of this.

Maybe have bananas instead of just banana. Just because it means crazy...

	26-04-2004 20:36									#321
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quote: Originally posted by Patashu For the replacments for puny, hopeless, mighty, etc. Top Banana Bananarific Bananalicious Banana Ripe Banana Bruised Banana Banana-less Something like that.

What do you all think: should I leave the (actually useless IMO) original "historian" qualification (puny, hopeless and such) for clarity's sake, or use this bananalicious classification?

	26-04-2004 20:55									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion What do you all think: should I leave the (actually useless IMO) original "historian" qualification (puny, hopeless and such) for clarity's sake, or use this bananalicious classification?

Just use the bananalicious one.

	27-04-2004 13:05									#323
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If the Discword historian you mentioned is obsessed with bananas, then yes - it'd fit in really well.

	27-04-2004 17:24									#324
	Inflate your Upload Space

The Librarian of Unseen University was a human who got turned into an Orang-Utan by a weird magical effect! This might explain the "rubber ring", "highest tree" and so on allusions as well

He actually likes it, as having 4 long prehensile members is really practical to swing along the shelves, and resisted all attempts to turn him back into human form!

So, yes, I guess you can say he is a bit obsessed with bananas...

	27-04-2004 23:24									#325
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It's one of the funniest characters of all the book, second only to the luggage

	27-04-2004 23:25									#326
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BTW, I'm gonna play the scen this weekend... Do you want me to test a speficic civ?

	28-04-2004 10:54									#327
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion The Librarian of Unseen University was a human who got turned into an Orang-Utan by a weird magical effect! This might explain the "rubber ring", "highest tree" and so on allusions as well He actually likes it, as having 4 long prehensile members is really practical to swing along the shelves, and resisted all attempts to turn him back into human form! So, yes, I guess you can say he is a bit obsessed with bananas...

However his conversation is somewhat limited.

Ook

RJM at Sleeper's

	28-04-2004 11:56									#328
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quote: Originally posted by yaroslav BTW, I'm gonna play the scen this weekend... Do you want me to test a speficic civ?

No, play any civ you want! I'll probably try Ankh-Morpork myself!

BTW: I hope to send you the new (last?) version (correcting the few points mentionned in the posts above) before this week-end: I'll work on it Friday afternoon! So check your mail box before you start playing

quote: However his conversation is somewhat limited. Ook

	28-04-2004 13:06									#329
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Oh no, and after all the good work I've done to try to keep the conversation sensible, focused on the scenario, and away from silly Pratchett jokes (that I don't understand).

If anyone fancies giving Uberwald a try, I'm not sure if any of us have attempted them yet. I was going to have a go, but RL has intervened, and I don't know if I'll be able to play any civ at all until next week!

	29-04-2004 01:05									#330
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I'll play Uberwald