26-04-2002 08:35									#61
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oh yea and nationalist

you are a SICK! (at least according to the communistwealth) in virginia that whole 15 yo thing would get you sent to jail on a statutory charge

	26-04-2002 08:37									#62
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 oh yea and nationalist you are a SICK! (at least according to the communistwealth) in virginia that whole 15 yo thing would get you sent to jail on a statutory charge

16 years old then. I don't care. My girlfriend is twenty. Beside, a 21 year old has to be pretty pathetic to have sex with a 15 year old.

	26-04-2002 08:41									#63
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 faded glory according to the date rape lectures at college i've you'd be getting castrated too if some of the more corporal punishment types ran the justice system

you cant link the drunken one night stand to rape. You just cant...especially in my case when you are both consenting 23-24 year old adults.

	26-04-2002 08:43									#64
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faded glory a girl under the influence of alcohol can't give consent

nationalist in some states the age of consent is 18 so 16 would still get you in trouble in california

	26-04-2002 08:47									#65
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 faded glory a girl under the influence of alcohol can't give consent nationalist in some states the age of consent is 18 so 16 would still get you in trouble in california

Age of consent is 18 in Cali!? That's the most liberal state in the Union! I figured that it would be 14 there or something. Anyway, no younger than 16. If you're older than 25 or so, no youger than 18 IMO.

	26-04-2002 08:50									#66
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hehe ok this is almost as sick as NAMBLA

all of this talk about age of consent makes me think of that winger song
she's only 17

	26-04-2002 09:00									#67
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 faded glory a girl under the influence of alcohol can't give consent

Neither can a man under the influence. If you're both toasted off your arses, then it's it would take a helluva lawyer to justify it as date rape.

	26-04-2002 09:06									#68
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winger sucks

	26-04-2002 09:21									#69
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loinburger

did you forget drunk women can't rape drunk men in the eyes of the court?

	26-04-2002 09:22									#70
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 loinburger did you forget drunk women can't rape drunk men in the eyes of the court?

Why do you ask, did I say that the man would have a case against the woman?

	26-04-2002 09:34									#71
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loinburger
it is a double standard but if two drunk people have sex and the girl regrets it then it is date rape

	26-04-2002 09:56									#72
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quote: it is a double standard but if two drunk people have sex and the girl regrets it then it is date rape

This is a very rare case (it's a myth that it happens often, basically).

	26-04-2002 10:55									#73
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rare case or not should it ever happen?

	26-04-2002 10:58									#74
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It hardly ever does happen.

And that case would get no serious play by a police officer, or would never result in conviction.

Even if a woman was really raped and she was drunk, it wouldn't result in conviction usually. The system is biased against women in that way.

	26-04-2002 12:11									#75
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My initial reaction to this NAMBLA thing was that they have exceed the limits of free speech. To me, it seems the same as having an Association of Rapists that wants to decriminalize rape.

But the discussion about age of consent has left me unsure.

If this association was saying the age of consent should be 15 instead of 16, would that be okay? Or what about a jurisdiction that has an age of consent of 18 and if these guys wanted the consent age dropped to 16?

Dropping it down to 8 is completely wacko, but I am not sure whether they should be banned for voicing their opinion.

	26-04-2002 12:27									#76
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The United States allows hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan to carry out whatever rallies they wish to have.

Same applies to pedophile advocate organizations, although I oppose the act of pedophilia.

	26-04-2002 14:11									#77
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What is the purpose of Nambla ? In what it is usefull for pedos ?
Nobody will one day legalize such BS !

	26-04-2002 14:39									#78
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse On the original subject, I think that the government should keep its nose out of free speech. Advocating a change in the law is and should remain legal. Advocating illegal acts is actually not legal where I'm from (nor is it in the States, IIRC); I would therefore hazard a guess that NAMBLA does not actually advocate performing illegal acts, since if they did then they would probably have been shut down by now.

It's a matter of degrees KH. One can say we should be able to smoke pot all you want to. I don't care. Usually I'm not for banning any group, but I'd loose no sleep over this one being banned or watched every minute of the day. Sorry if that disturbs anyone's sense of Constitutional justice. But when the choice comes down between the constitution and someone's child, which do you think is going to win.

	26-04-2002 14:44									#79
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior What is the purpose of Nambla ? In what it is usefull for pedos ? Nobody will one day legalize such BS !

I don't think most people are concerned that it will be legalized. They are concerned that the group provides a central place for these people (and i use that term sparingly) to meet and exchange ideas.

---------------------------------------

I would like to know one thing. What is the percentage of people that favor the legalization of pot that smokes it now regardless of it being illegal?

	26-04-2002 15:13									#80
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When you smoke pot you don't bother so much people.
Having sex (raping, molesting, ...) with a kid is another things.

	26-04-2002 16:34									#81
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Just out of interest, are the people who say "ban NAMBLA", also saying the same thing for the KKK? Feel free to find some excuse that means the KKK can still exist while the other gets shut down if you want to.

	26-04-2002 16:41									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Just out of interest, are the people who say "ban NAMBLA", also saying the same thing for the KKK? Feel free to find some excuse that means the KKK can still exist while the other gets shut down if you want to.

If I was black or a Jew I probably would. But if I was black or a Jew then I would still want Nambla (and any group like it) banned.

	26-04-2002 17:11									#83
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My problem with Nambla is that it try not to help pedophil to live peacefully in society (helping them to 'fight' against their sexuality) but try to change society for pedophils only interest.

Last edited by ZoboZeWarrior on 26-04-2002 at 18:24

	26-04-2002 17:12									#84
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But as you're white you don't? Is it that you think you'd have a somewhat irrational hatred of the KKK as a minority, or that you only think things that affect you adversely should be put under scrutiny? Or something else..?

(Think you missed out a "not" after the first "is" there, Zobe)

	26-04-2002 17:17									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber If I was black or a Jew I probably would. But if I was black or a Jew then I would still want Nambla (and any group like it) banned.

So your point is that you advocate freedom speech and asociation until you, personally, are offended or threatened by it. Well, I see the proud legacy of the Enlightenment isn't going to waste here.

Paging Dr. Voltaire, paging Dr. Voltaire, you're needed for an emergency in Off Topic...

There is a difference between speech and action, period. Why is that so hard to grasp? Sure, you join a group that advocates something illegal (like man/boy love), and you invite government scrutiny. But until you act, you are protected by the First Amendment, and that's a good thing. Giving up First Amendment freedoms in the hopes of stopping pedophiles (who, as we all know, never even existed until a bunch of nutjobs formed an organization ) is trading serious liberty for illusory security.

Paging Dr. Franklin, paging Dr. Ben Franklin, please join Dr. Voltaire in Off-Topic...

	26-04-2002 18:24									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie (Think you missed out a "not" after the first "is" there, Zobe)

Yea... I hesitated between 'less ... than' and 'not .. but' articulation. I missed both !

I think that such organization r illegal in France.

	26-04-2002 20:20									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly So your point is that you advocate freedom speech and asociation until you, personally, are offended or threatened by it. Well, I see the proud legacy of the Enlightenment isn't going to waste here. Paging Dr. Voltaire, paging Dr. Voltaire, you're needed for an emergency in Off Topic... There is a difference between speech and action, period. Why is that so hard to grasp? Sure, you join a group that advocates something illegal (like man/boy love), and you invite government scrutiny. But until you act, you are protected by the First Amendment, and that's a good thing. Giving up First Amendment freedoms in the hopes of stopping pedophiles (who, as we all know, never even existed until a bunch of nutjobs formed an organization ) is trading serious liberty for illusory security. Paging Dr. Franklin, paging Dr. Ben Franklin, please join Dr. Voltaire in Off-Topic...

I don't think that the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Communist, nazies or the Pot Growers of america should be banned either. Just those people that advocate what this groups advocates. Is this plain enough for you Rufus? Do I need to get any clearer?

If you want to go further. You can say that I’m prejudiced against pedophiles. I’m all for the government suppressing every last one of them and whatever semblance of a group identity that they may have. Regardless if they are men, women, heterosexual or homosexual, black white or any color of the rainbow. Get rid of all of them.

I hope that clarifies my stand on the issue.

	26-04-2002 20:28									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I don't think that the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Communist, nazies or the Pot Growers of america should be banned either. Just those people that advocate what this groups advocates. Is this plain enough for you Rufus? Do I need to get any clearer?

I still have trouble understanding what you're position is.

How can you ban free speech of people who advocate what the groups advocate, and yet, allow free speech of the groups??

	26-04-2002 20:38									#89
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I still have trouble understanding what you're position is. How can you ban free speech of people who advocate what the groups advocate, and yet, allow free speech of the groups??

Because I'm picky about who I despise. And Pedophiles and any other human being that preys on children rank high on my list of people who are just a general waste of air. It's pretty damned easy to talk about rights when it's just an academic discussion, but can get real personal when vermine like Nambla decides to endulge themselves with an acutal living breathing chid.

"Oh they don't actually do it Sprayber they are just innocent lobbiest"

Those that believe that can continue to hide behind the constitution if they wish.

	26-04-2002 20:45									#90
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So then you despise pedophiles when they pratice their freedom of speech, but not act upon it.

But you do not despise Ku Klux Klan members when they pratice their freedom of speech, but do not act out any violence towards blacks??