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Heresson
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of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:19
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Strasznie przepraszam. Cos mi sie pokickalo i przypadkiem skasowalem to co tu napisalem!
W sumie to i dobrze. Za dlugie to bylo.
Last edited by Heresson on 05-05-2002 at 15:40
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Bereta_Eder
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Oh, and the alternative was NOT Greece going to the eastern block.
Only a very naive and uninformed person would say that.
The alternative was Andreas Papandreou coming to power and Greece regaining a large amount of independence from international patrons something that scared some people very much.
Papandreou did become PM later on and the sky did not fall on anyone's head.
Don't confuse the Junta with the Civil War.
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Bereta_Eder
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And yet something else of also big importance.
You may remember a small island in eastern mediterenean called Cyprus.
You may know who invaded it. What you don't know is that the Junta has had a huge part of the responsibility for what happened to Cyprus.
To put it blantly, were it not for the Junta there would not be a devided Cyprus now.
As I said you know very little.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
Anyway, if atheistic revolution could win in Russia, catholic tzar could for sure. |
Who told you that they win easily? And did they really win?
Nothing strange. It’s insult for me to hear such compare. You really didn’t saw an ultra right Russian if you think so.
Who is this Katy?
quote:
hear it, oh communists of Apolyton! HEAR IT!!!! |
Yep HEAR it!!! 
And try to convince me that it isn’t true if you can of course.
quote:
I doubt that. Recently You had to get your youth drunk to force them to go to Tchechenia... |
Not recently. It was in first campaign, when just drafted conscripts were sending there (Mr. Yeltsin responsible for this). We received lessons I guess. During second war only professionals were sent there. This is one of the reasons why second campaign aside of first lasted only few months. The second reason is because local population didn't support terrorists like they do in first campaign.
quote:
Not quite. You have no real power perhaps except for some post-soviet states. |
Oh sure. 
Try to exclude us from UN Security Council then. Any nation, which can easily wipe out all life from this planet within few minutes, is very powerful and influential by definition.
And it will remain a part of Russian Federation FOREVER.
quote:
You just admit that through long Russian rule over Tchechenia, You were unable to teach them anything. |
Not at all. In times of SU there was no troubles in Chechnya. All troubles began when SU collapsed. Nationalistic, extremist and fascist’s regimes become very powerful only in times of great troubles. During its last years SU was in deep economical crisis and when it’s finally collapsed it brings a real economical disaster. Of course it’s much easier to blame people of different nationalities in all your troubles, that’s why all kinds of extremist arise in such times. That’s what happens there after disintegration of SU.
quote:
And hell what? Higher authorities cut off from his action. |
Never. NEVER.
In fact they did exactly the opposite. Maskhadov made a mobilization, declared Jihad against Russia and sent REINFORCEMENTS in Dagestan.
But, if even (only hypothetically) they did it, it doesn’t change anything. Try to imagine the situation: Russian defense minister launched an attack against Poland, Russian forces invade Poland territory, killed many Polish soldiers and then Russian president said: “look guys I don’t know who is this minister, I had no idea what’s my defense minister intended to do”. Do you realize that this is an absurd?
quote:
Rethinking it, I must change my views a bit though. I understand You partially, I must admit, as You may think that if You won't control it, You may be vulnerable to other attacks. Russian action in Tchechenia is partially reasonable. |
During all time of their “de facto” independence every day I saw on TV news about stolen people, not everyday but very frequently about bomb explosions on markets in various Russian cities. Today it’s ended. Yes, those bastards explode something in Chechnya almost every week, but today they have no power to project they terrorist’s actions any deeper into Russian territory. Every day they losing their power, they are doomed, their masters destroyed in Afghanistan. (Americans, thank you very, VERY MUCH), they lost almost all external support, (esp. after Hattab was eliminated, he was the major figure in connection between them and foreign extremist’s groups). As for local support it’s very, very weak, because under Mashadov’s rule all those Vahhabites and foreign mercenaries didn’t love local population very mach. Life in fundamentalist state of Taliban’s type (which Chechnya was for 3 years) isn’t very cool, I guess local people realize it now. That’s why many Chechen’s veterans of first war fought on our side in second campaign. Look for example on today’s head of Chechnya Kadyrov or on major of Grozny- Gantamirov.
quote:
But still I think it has right to be independant if it wonts it. |
It’s can’t be a fully independent and you perfectly understand it. Chechnya is devastated, it has no economy. Without external support it’s unable to survive. If we leave it, there come others (Turkey or something.) During 3 years of their “de facto” independence they didn’t build a single hospital, a single school or created a single work place. Today we are building schools, (and already build a lot of them), building hospitals (and already build a lot of them), creating work places (and already build a lot of them).
quote:
My advice is to let it go free, shut the borders up and wait until they will calm down. |
Thanks a lot for this advice. We already tried this, instead of rebuilding economy they prefer to buy weapons and attack us again. You do not realize that Chechnya was not the only their goal, they wanted to create a much larger fundamentalist state, the Dagestan was the next step for them, but not the last in their plans. It’s good that all their plans remains only on maps, because people of Dagestan resisted their invasion.
quote:
But alternative is war, which means that then, You will be attacked for sure. |
The Alternative is peace. The Chechen people are tired of war, tired of extremists, fundamentalists and all kind of villains. They are rebuilding they republic now, the remaining tiny groups of bandits will be eliminated soon, because they lost support of locals. All is over or at least almost is over.
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Do You really don't know Mickiewicz? |
Well, I’m ready to show my ignorance.
I’m really don’t know about him. Who is he anyway? Some kind of linguist or historian?
quote:
Jedna Jaskolka wiosny nie czyni. Kilka tez.
Zreszta, i on mial wielka przewage. |
What happen with my Polish? I don’t understand a word.
I guess it’s some kind of Polish saying. Am I right?
Could you translate it on English?
quote:
No. Attack on Finland was attempt to reestablish Russian/Soviet rule in a land that belonged earlier |
Still it’s different wars. And perhaps it was an attempt to remove frontier from Leningrad, 
anyway it doesn’t changed the fact that SU attacked first and acted like aggressor and btw, was punished for this by exclusion from league of nations.
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Anyway, our f.l. spoke so good Russian that lady Putin "proposed" her office of president of Moscow |
Our f.l knows a lot of foreign languages too, 3 or more don’t remember, she was a teacher.
quote:
a ten kto z nami nie ??? ??? zagrac na nosie
Every one who disagreed with us, remember about this:
dla nas ??? i biblia i ryba(?)
Love and peace for like bible and food,
no mozemy dac i policja/polizac
But we can easily kick your asses,
Za narodowe Katmandu?
If you dare to do something, against our precious Katmandu. |
It’s a lyric of funny song from soundtrack of very popular Russian movie “Brat-2”. The song is called “Katmandu” I’ve typed it mostly for Saras, bcs I know he speaking on Russian freely. I wonder that you understood a lot of it.
quote:
(??? dziwny jezyk. Taki zepsuty polski, he he he) |
Konechno dziwny (divnyi?).
quote:
(sprobojcie jeszcze raz spalic nasza stolice to wam pokazemy, to ja wam moge zagwarantowac. |
It’s very precision translation. Think about it.
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Heresson
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of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:19
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"Who told you that they win easily? And did they really win?
They didn't win easily, but it was atheism,
something much much much more distanced from your tradition.
And they won. Comeback to cerkiew today is rather tactical.
"Nothing strange. It?s insult for me to hear such compare.
Why? You do fit defenitions...
"You really didn?t saw an ultra right Russian if you think so.
THERE ARE WORSE????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Who is this Katy?
Katyn is one of places where Polish military officers and
intelligents were killed by SU during the war;
Stalin was Transporting Poles from the lands he got by partaging
Poland with Hitler, and intellectuals and officers were killed.
Until recently, SU/Russia denied these facts. When Germans
took earlier belonging to SU lands during the war, they discovered
mass graves, announced it is Soviet thing (while Soviets claimed
it was German thing; Soviet and Polish experts had other views,
but those that disagreed with official version were dispppearing)
and asked Red Cross at the same time that Poland did to check it;
that was SU' official reason to breake diplomatic contacts with
real Polish gouverment and construct a one of their own.
"Yep HEAR it!!!
And try to convince me that it isn?t true if you can of course.
I agree that it is true and that's why I think a communists should have not supported
Soviet Union.
"Not recently. It was in first campaign, when just drafted conscripts were sending there (Mr. Yeltsin responsible for this). We received lessons I guess. During second war only professionals were sent there. This is one of the reasons why second campaign aside of first lasted only few months. The second reason is because local population didn't support terrorists like they do in first campaign.
A few years ago is recently for me. Still I protest against calling all Tchechenian fighters terrorists.
"Oh sure.
Try to exclude us from UN Security Council then. Any nation, which can easily wipe out all life from this planet within few minutes, is very powerful and influential by definition.
...leaving your country without economical help from the west, to die quickly.
"And it will remain a part of Russian Federation FOREVER.
and ever, and ever amd ever...
na na na
na na na na na
na na na
na na na na na
Why do You think it should?
Not at all. In times of SU there was no troubles in Chechnya. All troubles began when SU collapsed. Nationalistic, extremist and fascist?s regimes become very powerful only in times of great troubles. During its last years SU was in deep economical crisis and when it?s finally collapsed it brings a real economical disaster. Of course it?s much easier to blame people of different nationalities in all your troubles, that?s why all kinds of extremist arise in such times. That?s what happens there after disintegration of SU.
But why Tchechenians were the only part of Federation that insisted on their independance?
Didn't it have anything to do with what Stalin did to them?
And what's with fameous Soviet indoctrination? haven't they learned anything through years
in Soviet schools? Or kidnapping and terrorising were the things that they learned there?
"Never. NEVER.
In fact they did exactly the opposite. Maskhadov made a mobilization, declared Jihad against Russia and sent REINFORCEMENTS in Dagestan.
Only later.
"But, if even (only hypothetically) they did it, it doesn?t change anything. Try to imagine the situation: Russian defense minister launched an attack against Poland, Russian forces invade Poland territory, killed many Polish soldiers and then Russian president said: ?look guys I don?t know who is this minister, I had no idea what?s my defense minister intended to do?. Do you realize that this is an absurd?
It's not. I can easily imagine crazy -or drunk- Russian general.
Anyway I'd like that. Everyone would condemn You and start liking us...
During all time of their ?de facto? independence every day I saw on TV news about stolen people, not everyday but very frequently about bomb explosions on markets in various Russian cities. Today it?s ended. Yes, those bastards explode something in Chechnya almost every week, but today they have no power to project they terrorist?s actions any deeper into Russian territory. Every day they losing their power, they are doomed, their masters destroyed in Afghanistan. (Americans, thank you very, VERY MUCH), they lost almost all external support, (esp. after Hattab was eliminated, he was the major figure in connection between them and foreign extremist?s groups).
it's not sure is he is not alive.
As for local support it?s very, very weak, because under Mashadov?s rule all those Vahhabites and foreign mercenaries didn?t love local population very mach. Life in fundamentalist state of Taliban?s type (which Chechnya was for 3 years) isn?t very cool, I guess local people realize it now. That?s why many Chechen?s veterans of first war fought on our side in second campaign. Look for example on today?s head of Chechnya Kadyrov or on major of Grozny- Gantamirov.
And when they, civilised people, will be willing to make Tchechenia independant too,
what would You do?
It?s can?t be a fully independent and you perfectly understand it. Chechnya is devastated, it has no economy.
With help of Russians
Without external support it?s unable to survive. If we leave it, there come others (Turkey or something.) During 3 years of their ?de facto? independence they didn?t build a single hospital, a single school or created a single work place. Today we are building schools, (and already build a lot of them), building hospitals (and already build a lot of them), creating work places (and already build a lot of them).
I believe that in every post-communistic country there are too many hospitals.
Anyway if there were so poor, how were they supposed to build sth>?
Thanks a lot for this advice. We already tried this, instead of rebuilding economy they prefer to buy weapons and attack us again. You do not realize that Chechnya was not the only their goal, they wanted to create a much larger fundamentalist state, the Dagestan was the next step for them, but not the last in their plans. It?s good that all their plans remains only on maps, because people of Dagestan resisted their invasion.
walhamdu Allahi.
The Alternative is peace. The Chechen people are tired of war, tired of extremists, fundamentalists and all kind of villains. They are rebuilding they republic now, the remaining tiny groups of bandits will be eliminated soon, because they lost support of locals. All is over or at least almost is over.
Still I think it's Russian propaganda to bigger or smaller extent;
"poor people of X are troubled by Bad Guys no more and can come back to their peaceful work"
jest taki kawal, pewneie rosyjski.
Opowiada on o konflikcie radziecko-chi?skim w odleglych czasach.
Sowiecki komunikat radiowy;
"dzis nad ranem o godzinie piatej zbrodnicze sily chi?skie
zaatakowaly pracujacy spokojnie na polu kombajn radziecki.
Kombajn, po odpowiedzeniu ogniem, odlecial do Moskwy"
Well, I?m ready to show my ignorance.
I?m really don?t know about him. Who is he anyway? Some kind of linguist or historian?
He is said to be Polish greatest Poethe. He was borned in Zaosie near Nowogrodek,
which today belongs to Byelorussia, in year 1798 I think, attended Vilnius (polish at this time)
university, where he was arrested by Russians for Polish organisationing. His brother was some
officiel so he didn't get harsh punishment. Later he went to Moscow, where he made friends
(or was it later and elsewhere) with Puszkin. Later they argued a lot about Poland, as Puszkin
turned out to be Russian nationalist (I read his poems in very good translation, can judge it).
Mickiewicz later lived in Paris, where he was teaching Slavistics, and leading Tibune of the Peoples.
He is respondible that in our national epopea we say "Lithuania, my fatherland" - for him
Lithuania was a part of Poland.
I knew two Puszkin's poems by heart;
"Biesy"
Pedza chmury, wala chmury,
niewidomie ksiezyc mzy
Na snieg lotny proszac z gory
Metne niebo, metne mgly
Jade, jade w dal bezbrzezna,
dzyn-dzyn-dzyn dzwoneczka dzwiek,
Strasznie, strasznie w te noc sniezna!
Rosnie pustka, rosnie lek.
and so on.
"czy po ulicy chodze szumnej..."
Czy po ulicy chodze szumnej,
czy zwiedzm tlumny Bozy dom,
Czy wsrod mlodziezy bezrozumnej,
Zawsze oddaje sie mym snom.
I mowie; chyzo przemkna lata
I choc dookola tylu nas
Zejdziemy wszyscy w mrok ze swiata
I zawsze komus w droge czas
and so on.
What happen with my Polish? I don?t understand a word.
I guess it?s some kind of Polish saying. Am I right?
Could you translate it on English?
Yes. but I don't know what is English name for jaskolka,
a little bird that is said to come exactly when the spring
starts. It is black with white belly I guess, and with
specificly shaped tail.
this saying says that if one jaskolka shows up,
it doesn't mean that it's already spring.
Still it?s different wars. And perhaps it was an attempt to remove frontier from Leningrad,
anyway it doesn?t changed the fact that SU attacked first and acted like aggressor and btw, was punished for this by exclusion from league of nations.
SU acted like agressor when it comes to Poland too.
But I looked on it from other point too;
if Germans started their offensive not from bug line,
but from eastern border of Poland, they would have conquered
Moscow for sure. But that's not what Stalin ment. Otherwise he
wouldn't let Poland be conquered by Germans in any part,
and Ribbentrop-Molotow pact wouldn't have been signed.
Our f.l knows a lot of foreign languages too, 3 or more don?t remember, she was a teacher.
So her praise is even more valuable.
It?s a lyric of funny song from soundtrack of very popular Russian movie ?Brat-2?. The song is called ?Katmandu? I?ve typed it mostly for Saras, bcs I know he speaking on Russian freely. I wonder that you understood a lot of it.
I didn't understand it all that good. When a Slovakian says something,
or Byelorussian even, Poles can understand him almost fully. Russian not quite.
Konechno dziwny (divnyi?).
yes. strange.
It?s very precision translation. Think about it.
We won't burn it, then. We'll cover it with water!
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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Why do all Poles (well, a fair majority of them) think their country is the best in the world and has always been?
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Heresson
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of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:19
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Both You;
why do You say that here? I have not argued at greateness of Poland here. Perhaps You just took a quick look at the topic and at that Poland is discussed here, and not thinking too much, wrote those replies. I just argued over Polish-Russian relationships. I never thought
that my country is the best one and always been, and hardly any Pole would say that. Unlike many Israeli and German guysSome time ago I read what one Israeli girl said about her state, that it was built by grandpas, and made a might by parents. THAT was silly, as Israer exist both economically and politically only thanks to foreign help. When it comes to Germany, You are might and no-one denies that. Still, if complexes are shown by nationalism, You are far more complexed than we are, as political situation in eastern Germany shows.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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Well, that would be the more accurate yet inofficial explication. Wanna join the club?
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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I'm talking to Harrison... erm... Heresson, you trolltroll
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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I didn't get the last 2
and Dal - isn't there a chance that doesn't include IRC?
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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This is not a chatroom.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:19
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quote:
They didn't win easily... |
If you remember this is exactly what I've said. That any conversion ended as religious war.
quote:
Why? You do fit defenitions... |
Sometimes you fit a difinitions for "Russofob" (don't know the proper word). So, what? I didn't use this term.
quote:
THERE ARE WORSE????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
SURE.
Real ultra right bloody patriots will even talk to you so long. If I was one of them, then you was insuled hundreds of times. And there was a real festival of greatness of Mother Russia long ago.
(Yeh, Yeh I know sometimes I pumpin my Russian chest to loud. Nothing can do about it)
quote:
Katyn is one of places where Polish military officers and intelligents were killed by SU during the war; |
Ah, that's what you mean. Sorry, I didn't understood you, Katy is the girl's name.
quote:
Still I protest against calling all Tchechenian fighters terrorists. |
Whatever you want.
But, in Russian courts "terrorism" is the most common charge for their crimes.
quote:
...leaving your country without economical help from the west, to die quickly. |
Not a chance. We are perhaps the only country in the world who can surrvive in full isolation. If you do this, then we'll create another "Soviet Union" and perhaps swe'll start to kick western asses again.
quote:
Why do You think it should? |
Because of the "Constitution of Russian Federation".
quote:
But why Tchechenians were the only part of Federation that insisted on their independance? |
Who told you that they are the only ones?
There was others too. For example, Tatarstan (btw, Desndances of Mongols, the capital is Kazan. Could you imagine those guys said that they were an independant state and lost their soverignety when Russians crushed the 'Golden Horde"aboy five hundred years ago ) and Buriatiya declared their independance too. Very rediculus claims, considerind that both of them deep in Russian territory and surronded by other Russian territories. But there were no wars of course. In those republics there was no such war-mongering people like Dudaev. Who wanted to become the "man in charge" by any cost.
quote:
Didn't it have anything to do with what Stalin did to them? |
Again, from all nationalities of SU, Russians suffered the most. But, we didn't nuked Georgia after collapse of the SU only because Stalin was the Georgian.
Not later, almost at the same time. It was well planed and well prepared invasion. The only thing that didn't expected is that local population will resist their invasion. Before Russian army arrived they were stoped by locals. That was their mistake, they thought that local people will hrlp them, not starting to fight against them.
quote:
It's not. I can easily imagine crazy -or drunk- Russian general. |
Pease, don't pretend that you didn't understood. I wanted to said that such decision as an attack against other country is the decision of not general's level. It is the decision of 'head of the state' level. Without head of the state's permision none general never make this.
quote:
it's not sure is he is not alive. |
Why it's not sure?
His dead body was shown on TV news. It was pretty clear that it's him and that he is dead.
quote:
And when they, civilised people, will be willing to make Tchechenia independant too, what would You do? |
It's a very hard question.
If we let them go now, all willians from all around the world will say: "Look Russia is weak now, we can easily torn another piece of it through terror, kidnaping and explosions of buildings in their cities."
Not a chance, we striked back and will always strike back.
quote:
With help of Russians |
And with help of themselves too.
quote:
I believe that in every post-communistic country there are too many hospitals. |
Itsn't a post-communistic country. And there was war.
quote:
Anyway if there were so poor, how were they supposed to build sth>? |
They didn't build anything during the years of their "de facto" independance.
We are rebuilding Chechnya now. WE ARE. Everything what is build there is build on Russian money and with Russian help.
It's not funny. Extremism is the REAL threat to humanity.
quote:
Still I think it's Russian propaganda to bigger or smaller extent; "poor people of X are troubled by Bad Guys no more and can come back to their peaceful work" |
You never lived in fundamentalist state then.(Gladly me too) Life in such state isn't so cool as they expected. Look how people of Afghanistan celabrated the fall of Taliban's regime.
quote:
Yes. but I don't know what is English name for jaskolka, |
Don't know the English name too. The Russian name for this bird is trisaguska.
quote:
this saying says that if one jaskolka shows up, it doesn't mean that it's already spring. |
This is exactly the same meaning that I expected. So, you don't deny that Suvorov was pretty good strategist? (IMHO genius strategist) He is the greatest of many, but not the only one.
quote:
if Germans started their offensive not from bug line, but from eastern border of Poland, they would have conquered Moscow for sure. |
Perhaps. I guess this was the Stalin's motive.
quote:
We won't burn it, then. We'll cover it with water! |
*Schwarzeneger acsent* Even don't think about it.
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04-05-2002 03:43
Then return to home and do something for this.
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