18-05-2002 07:46									#1
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New Delhi dons warpaint for US envoy
Saurabh Shukla
(New Delhi, May 17)
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Home Minister LK Advani's expression of "deep disappointment" with the US in Parliament was matched by tough language to US Ambassador Robert Blackwill behind closed doors.
In meetings on Friday with National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra and Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh, Blackwill was told the US had failed to fulfil promises to restrain Pakistan from supporting terrorism. India, therefore, would take "appropriate action". A similar message was given to US Secretary of State Colin Powell when he spoke to Singh earlier.

Blackwill's assurances that the US saw the fight against Kashmir militancy as part of the global war on terrorism received a sceptical response.

India said Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf had done nothing concrete to rein in terrorists — despite US promises to the contrary. India showed evidence that cross-border terrorism had increased after Pakistan pledged to fight terror.

Blackwill's request for more time to get Pakistan to comply was rejected.

Blackwill expressed US President George W Bush's concerns about tensions escalating into a full-scale war. India, he was told, would not take rash decisions but as a sovereign country it reserved the right to act on its security needs. India was urged not to break diplomatic relations with Pakistan.

Following these exchanges, there was a ratcheting up of diplomatic activity in the city.

Blackwill and senior US embassy officials reviewed the situation late into the night and consulted with Washington. There was speculation that besides Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, expected in South Asia in the next fortnight, Powell may also fly here.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfr...02/detfro01.asp

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I hope they keep their nukes under control.

	18-05-2002 07:55									#2
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My Indian friends would tell you that getting Musharraf to restrain terror is equivalent to getting Arafat to restrain terror. Neither has any credibility. Actions do not match the rhetoric, etc.

Israel took action and ignored Bush. I fully expect India will too unless Powell can get real action out of Musharraf.

Hopefully, the EU will co-operate with the U.S. on this one.

Ned

	18-05-2002 08:15									#3
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both sides have been itching for a fight for a long time now. if war breaks out, I'm afraid the whole world will be drawn into it. at worst, they could use nuclear weapons on each other. at the least millions of people will be killed on either side.

	18-05-2002 08:27									#4
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Yea, i started working on a Civ2 scenario in which the whole world goes to war. Pakistan vs. India, Israel vs. Arabs, US vs. Iraq & Afganistan. Things are brewing and its looking bad. There will be major wars yet.

	18-05-2002 08:32									#5
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I think that India and Pakistan are the most likely nations to use nukes first and if that happens a world war is almost inevitable.

	18-05-2002 08:35									#6
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I hope they make that region glow in the dark.

	18-05-2002 08:36									#7
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Lincoln, i agree with you, unfortunately. I believe India and Pakistan are gonna get it on some day in the near future, no matter what. They might cool down, but they'll get it on again for sure. And about that nuke thing.. uh oh..
I hope i'm wrong. Hope the best, fear the worst.

	18-05-2002 08:46									#8
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quote: I think that India and Pakistan are the most likely nations to use nukes first and if that happens a world war is almost inevitable.

Erm, why? Would would the US jump into a India-Pakistan war, just because nukes are used? Why would Europe? Why would Russia?

	18-05-2002 08:50									#9
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Well let's just say that there would be international outrage. Who knows where that would lead. Then you have the Moslem thing involved etc.

	18-05-2002 08:58									#10
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I doubt the US would intervene militarily, and Europe certainly wouldn't, and Russia doesn't have the capability. China sorta does, but they have no reason to either.

Outrage, sure. World War 3, no.

	18-05-2002 09:03									#11
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I guess we will just have to wait and see. I hope someone can prevent them from blowing each other up anyway.

	18-05-2002 09:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I doubt the US would intervene militarily, and Europe certainly wouldn't, and Russia doesn't have the capability. China sorta does, but they have no reason to either. Outrage, sure. World War 3, no.

here's how I figure it. Pakistan is the most likely to throw the nukes into the equation first. They have less of everything as compared to India. They'll want to do as much damage to India as possible before India knows what happend.

Considering the Paki gov't has a hard enough time teaming the masses in peace time, you could see how rouge or non government militias will use this to their advantage to propegate the conflict even more to advance their own causes.

The US and pretty much rest of the world (west) will likely jump in to put a lid on Pakis at the request or maybe even please for help by India. The Arabs/Muslims could get really outraged by this and see it as an opportunity to declare all out war. Things are already tense. They could set off countless terracts all over the world only making the "war on terror" more legitimate and "GO"

Everything is related in the world. If nukes are invloved, you can be sure the major powers will step in if only to make sure that they aren't the next target in all the chaos.

	18-05-2002 09:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I doubt the US would intervene militarily, and Europe certainly wouldn't, and Russia doesn't have the capability. China sorta does, but they have no reason to either. Outrage, sure. World War 3, no.

There's a chance that China would team up with Pakistan against India. China and India have fought before and each still occupies territory claimed by the other. China and Pakistan have been doing a lot of military cooperation.

	18-05-2002 09:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Erm, why? Would would the US jump into a India-Pakistan war, just because nukes are used? Why would Europe? Why would Russia?

Prevent global warming? move engineers in place?

	18-05-2002 09:35									#15
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I put them both on Axis of Evil then. They have wom, and are threatning using them.

	18-05-2002 09:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Erm, why? Would would the US jump into a India-Pakistan war, just because nukes are used? Why would Europe? Why would Russia?

How about because some of our best forces are already in Pakistan?

I think it's quite possible that, in the event of a nuclear exchange, any carrier groups we have in the region will also be on the receiving end.

	18-05-2002 09:55									#17
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Saber rattling. I don't see India is in any shape to launch an attack right now.

	18-05-2002 12:59									#18
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Everyone:

The first power to initiate the use of nuclear weapons will be the real loser at the end of the day, IMHO.

I wouldn't be surprised if China would come in on Pakistan's side, should things go through the roof. China could take advantage of the confusion following a Pakistani first strike and wreak havoc in northern India. Well, provided they had the military power nearby ... how many troops does China have in Tibet?

Seems like I read somewhere that Pakistan came close to hitting an Indian city with a nuclear warhead in 1999.

If that part of the world does go up in flames, I don't think it'd lead to a world war in the "traditional" sense. It might lead to a war that devastates not on the subcontinent area, but the Middle East as well. Perhaps part of the Caucusus region as well?

Gatekeeper

	18-05-2002 14:24									#19
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quote: Originally posted by morb here's how I figure it. Pakistan is the most likely to throw the nukes into the equation first. They have less of everything as compared to India. They'll want to do as much damage to India as possible before India knows what happend.

If i'm not mistaken in every "mini-battle" between the two in the last year or so, India losed much more troops than Pakistan. Maybe India has more resources and manpower, but it seems that the the Pakistani soldiers are trained much better.

Or they're downplaying their casualty numbers. Typical for totalitarian Muslim states.

	18-05-2002 14:29									#20
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You've gotta blame India for failing to conclusively win its wars with Pakistan up to now. They have two or three times the military capacity and ten times the population. They should have been able to crush Pakistan without even thinking of nuclear weapons.

	18-05-2002 14:31									#21
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I would consider a war between India and Pakistan to be a world war, since WW1 was concentrated mainly in Europe, and WW2 in Europe and the Far East.

The casualty figures of an India Pakistan war would likely dwarf both those wars put together.

	18-05-2002 14:35									#22
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Doesn't make it a world war though

There's that nice "mad max" scenairo for Civ2, playing after 223 and all. Apparently, that one started when India and Pakistan started a nuclear war against each other, and then, big sensation, the UK joined on the side of India ... in order to help its former colony. Apart from the fact that today's Pakistan was a part of the same colony of India ( enough), the whole idea is silly, but what the heck. The world map had some nice changes

I'm afraid they'll nuke each other, and that will be it, for the military aspect. Noone but possibly China is going to join in, and the biggest problem won't be the dead down there but rather the environmental consequences.

	18-05-2002 14:58									#23
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Especially considering how close that region is to Australia

	18-05-2002 15:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Especially considering how close that region is to Australia

Check your map - Western Australia is about 3500 Km from the southern tip of India

	18-05-2002 15:58									#25
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Wind can move that radiation around, especially if both countries use their entire arsenal against each other.

	18-05-2002 16:00									#26
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quote: Doesn't make it a world war though

Well what does then?

	18-05-2002 16:27									#27
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UR is right, India doesn't have the capability to launch a (conventional) war at this stage, China could overrun the whole Manipur/Arunachal Pradesh region in a matter of weeks, Indian forces on the border are no match for them.

I think it's all sabre rattling btw

	18-05-2002 17:28									#28
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Should a war start, who will the US back? India has been a long time ally, but since sept.11th Bush has gotten very cozy with Musharaf.

	18-05-2002 17:34									#29
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Sorry I can't add anything serious.

In a Simpsons set about 30 years in the future, a load of ancient comedians are working on a project, when a decrepit Krusty comes up with this:

K: Whats the different between a pancake and Pakistan?

K: I don't know any pancakes that were nuked by India!



K: What? Too soon?

	18-05-2002 17:52									#30
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hi ,

anyone thought about a pact between Israel and India , .........
they allready do their missile drill's together ,.............
and , ahem , make their missile's land in the Med , a few yards from a US carrier , who did not saw them coming , ......

have a nice day