26-05-2002 23:55									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Why assume they would be a problem. As pathogens go, they are unlikely to be any worse than what is already on Earth.

Why would they even be able to feed off of us? Wouldn't the proteins etc. be different?

	26-05-2002 23:58									#32
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse US oceans?

i.e. any ocean on the planet Earth.

	26-05-2002 23:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Why would they even be able to feed off of us? Wouldn't the proteins etc. be different?

That was my point re compatability.

	27-05-2002 00:00									#34
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Sorry; read that later. Was catching up on this thread.

	27-05-2002 00:03									#35
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Whether or not they've "evolved" in humans (or other organisms for that matter) is not relevant with respect to their ability to cause disease in humans or in other animals. There are plenty of examples of microorganisms that are resonably non-virulent in their natural niche or host that are extremely virulent in another. Although the primary host of Ebola is not known, current efforts are looking at bats. In humans that are not the natural host for the virus, the fatality rate is around 40-50% depending on the clade (the viral equivilant of strain).

	27-05-2002 00:08									#36
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Spencer, we are fairly close, biochemically speaking, to a bat.

	27-05-2002 00:13									#37
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The chances of us being affected by Martian virii is akin to the chances of a PC being susceptable to the common cold.

	27-05-2002 00:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Firelad Just colonize it already!!! :doitnow: We are SOOO behind schedule. Just look at Space Oddysey...

ANOTHER ISRAELI!!!

	27-05-2002 00:17									#39
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*starts crying*

It's Mark Lipovsomething's new account.

	27-05-2002 00:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon i.e. any ocean on the planet Earth.

	27-05-2002 00:21									#41
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse US oceans?

Ah...crap. Freudian slip?

	27-05-2002 00:23									#42
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We caught you! Hah! No more crap from you about spreading peace and democracy. Naked territoral ambition is your obvious goal.

	27-05-2002 00:25									#43
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54-40 or...compromise?

	27-05-2002 00:30									#44
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I think we should divy up the oceans proportional to coastline length...

	27-05-2002 00:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin The chances of us being affected by Martian virii is akin to the chances of a PC being susceptable to the common cold.

In order for your analogy to make any sense at all a martian microorganism would have to have a totally different system of biochemistry than ours such that we might not recognize it as a living organism. Even so, what you are not appreciating is that at a basic level, an organisms ability to cause disease in (for example) a human is dependent upon its ability to enter the host and trigger a response. The rate of growth of the organism in the host and whether there are responses to the organism and level of protective responses are factors in the severity of the disease. Since I'm not a science fiction writer, but a cellular microbiologist I have to assume that martian organisms will be carbon-based and using energy generating mechanisms that are similar to those present on earth. Under these conditions martian microbes are a potential biological hazard.

	27-05-2002 00:39									#46
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Even so, what you are not appreciating is that at a basic level, an organisms ability to cause disease in (for example) a human is dependent upon its ability to enter the host and trigger a response.

Does Dutch Elm Disease affect humans? Do any plant destroying bacteria/virii affect humans in an adverse way? Surely most/all pathogens that affect humans have evolved with animals and in particular mammals and so the leap from species to species is not too extreme?

	27-05-2002 00:41									#47
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I would think that the most dangerous microorganisms from a foreign planet would be molds, or perhaps necrotizing bacteria; ones that actually use you as a food source by eating your flesh and aren't as dependent on some of the specifics.

	27-05-2002 00:42									#48
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I think we should divy up the oceans proportional to coastline length...

I think Naval capability makes more sense...


You English Quebecer, you.

	27-05-2002 00:46									#49
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quote: I think we should divy up the oceans proportional to coastline length...

You know full-well that a coastline is as long as you want it to be.

	27-05-2002 00:47									#50
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I'm all for shipping all Canadians to Mars, and then we Americans can have all of Canada to ourselves to exploit to the point of environmental destruction.

	27-05-2002 00:49									#51
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I just think you have problems with the following dataset

1. Canada 243,791 km (152,369 miles)
2. Russia 37,653 km (23,533 miles)
3. Australia 25,760 km (16,100 miles)
4. US 19,924 km (12,452 miles)

	27-05-2002 00:50									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin quote: I think we should divy up the oceans proportional to coastline length... You know full-well that a coastline is as long as you want it to be.

There are internationally recognized standards of what resolution you use.

	27-05-2002 00:51									#53
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Canada's coastline has, IIRC fractional dimension ~1.7 while US has ~1.3. If you want to use finer and finer scale, that's fine with me...

	27-05-2002 00:53									#54
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first, we have to find them there .

I think what we should be careful about is what bugs we bring there.

If true colonies would emerge, I think that tests performed by overpaid workers are a must.

	27-05-2002 00:53									#55
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Thats a tough one, I cant think of anything except fungi. Again its not required that the organism be a pathogen in its natural host in order to cause disease in humans. Plants themselves cause many diseases in humans including asthma. Its not impossible to postulate a released martian organism growing quite benignly in its new niche on earth but that triggered anaphalactic shock and death in an exposed population.

	27-05-2002 00:58									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Plants themselves cause many diseases in humans including asthma. Its not impossible to postulate a released martian organism growing quite benignly in its new niche on earth but that triggered anaphalactic shock and death in an exposed population.

But non-organic materials could do that. Martian dust could cause a variation of asbestosis. Its not the organism that is the problem if it is once removed.

Any diseases caused by indirect effects would not be contagious either. (?) A hayfever sufferer is not going to transmit hayfever to other people.

	27-05-2002 01:15									#57
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Martian dust wouldnt grow which would limit it our exposure. On the other hand a martian bug might grow here which increases our exposure and our risk. Whether any such martian organisms might cause a contagious disease is questionable, but its by no means impossible. Personally, I dont think its a small risk.

	27-05-2002 01:20									#58
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quote: You forgot that Mars isn't very flat. Enough water to cover the surface in a uniform 500 metres wouldn't cover 90% of Mars by the time it had all flowed downhill; more like 15%.

Well, they haven't even looked at the northern hemisphere yet, so even more water could be hiding.

But yes, I probably was over-reacting. The northern hemisphere is three miles lower than the southern, so all the water would flow north.

	27-05-2002 01:27									#59
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actually, if the earth was a perfect sphere it would be covered by 2000 meters of water ...

	27-05-2002 01:32									#60
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Found a nifty little program that lets you raise or lower the water level on Mars.

Download it here:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/marsview.htm

What's interesting is that there is a big, shallow, northern ocean, and a small, deep, southern ocean.