27-05-2002 09:52									#1
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What is the desired result of the enforced race mixing going on in the US and Europe? I mean, if these policies continue indefinitely then wont the races eventually (a long time from now I know) blend to such an extent that the end result will be one race? How does this achieve diversity?

One could say that diversity is only a temporary phase we are going through until the "one race" situation is achieved. If this is the case, then why bother with enforced race mixing at all? We will end up as one race anyway right?

But...

I can see some positives in race mixing because:

quote: Hybridization of superior and dissimilar stocks is the secret of the creation of new and more vigorous strains. And this is true of plants, animals, and the human species. Hybridization augments vigor and increases fertility. Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America.

But are we taking care to mix superior and dissimilar stocks?No. Even so there are still advantages in race mixing.

quote: Race blending greatly contributes to the sudden appearance of new characteristics, and if such hybridization is the union of superior strains, then these new characteristics will also be superior traits.

So, race mixing is a good thing biologically, but culturally there are disadvantages.

quote: As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations. Even among inferior stocks, hybrids often are an improvement on their ancestors. Hybridization makes for species improvement because of the role of the dominant genes. Racial intermixture increases the likelihood of a larger number of the desirable dominants being present in the hybrid.

Are we moving too fast in our rush to blend the races? When you consider all the violence and discrimination that can be attributed to cultural differences and racial predjudice, its seems to me that we are. If race mixing is pursued at a more cautious pace, then perhaps we could have the best both biologically and socially.

	27-05-2002 09:54									#2
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You seem to be a bit too obsessed with races.

Why can't you just leave the issue be? Racism would be less of a problem if everyone didn't keep bringing the topic up and teaching their kids all about it.

	27-05-2002 09:58									#3
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From observation of the U.S., I believe that the low class is mixing to become one race. Whites, blacks, and hispanics all seem to be merging cultures and races into one low class culture. I see this as being a future problem in the U.S., as it carries with it the possibility for creating a race based poor "caste"

	27-05-2002 10:00									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You seem to be a bit too obsessed with races. Why can't you just leave the issue be? Racism would be less of a problem if everyone didn't keep bringing the topic up and teaching their kids all about it.

I dont think it would be though. Evolution has ingrained in us to instinctually mistrust those who look different.

I believe that many of the problems in US society come from racial predjudice and cultural differences, ignoring the problem wont make it go away.

I think the reason Im so interested in the topic of race is because I think its an important issue, and because its something that is seldom talked about openly and honestly.

	27-05-2002 10:09									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I believe that many of the problems in US society come from racial predjudice and cultural differences, ignoring the problem wont make it go away. I think the reason Im so interested in the topic of race is because I think its an important issue, and because its something that is seldom talked about openly and honestly.

Adding to the problem by thinking in racial terms all the time like you seem to won't make things better.

How can racial mixing possibly go too fast? If people were suficiently mixed in the US there wouldn't be any race problems.

You have this funny idea that there is a black culture in the US. There isn't one. You are mistaking the culture of poverty with a national background. Blacks with money have the same culture as Whites with money. The culture of money. The only real differences come in dealing with people that think in racial terms.

	27-05-2002 10:26									#6
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Rascism.

it stems, at least in part from evolution, or at least many supporting arguments can be found in that theory.

I am highly against both, i don't understand rascism but i think that racial quotas are easily the stupidest idea in a long time, far too many times people are passed up for the less qualified in order for the company to meet this stupid quota.

quote: You have this funny idea that there is a black culture in the US. There isn't one. You are mistaking the culture of poverty with a national background. Blacks with money have the same culture as Whites with money. The culture of money. The only real differences come in dealing with people that think in racial terms.

right on man.

	27-05-2002 10:26									#7
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Cal - predictions are that one race will indeed eventually form. I forget where I saw it, and by what medium, but some group did a great story on it, showing us what the future 'one race' man and woman would look like...it was a very interesting story.

There are two ways to look at it - intermixing of races take the best characteristics from both (biologically) or intermixing of races makes the new race unpure...

i believe the former over the latter...

	27-05-2002 10:35									#8
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Ethelred-
Forcing races to mix will not stop anyone from thinking in racial terms. I believe we are ingrained to think in racial terms. We all think this way, whether we admit it or not.

quote: How can racial mixing possibly go too fast? If people were suficiently mixed in the US there wouldn't be any race problems.

What you are saying is that if the races in the US were indistinguishable from each other, there would be no racial problems. One race in other words. So if one race is your ideal, why are you in favor of race mixing on such a grand scale? It seems that you can see the social value of having a nation of people who are mostly of the same race and culture, yet you support race mixing on a grand scale.

quote: You have this funny idea that there is a black culture in the US. There isn't one. You are mistaking the culture of poverty with a national background. Blacks with money have the same culture as Whites with money. The culture of money. The only real differences come in dealing with people that think in racial terms.

So you think that as long as two people have the same amount of money they are of the same culture? This is obviously wrong.

	27-05-2002 10:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by orange Cal - predictions are that one race will indeed eventually form. I forget where I saw it, and by what medium, but some group did a great story on it, showing us what the future 'one race' man and woman would look like...it was a very interesting story. There are two ways to look at it - intermixing of races take the best characteristics from both (biologically) or intermixing of races makes the new race unpure... i believe the former over the latter...

So do I, but is the social cost of race mixing on a grand scale worth the biological advantage? I dont think so.

	27-05-2002 10:39									#10
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quote: If race mixing is pursued at a more cautious pace, then perhaps we could have the best both biologically and socially.

I have no idea of which fantasy world you live in, but there is no "enforced race mixing" going on in the US or Europe. I've got a secret for you: people of different ethnicities generally interbreed because they actually want to, and their business is neither yours nor the state's.

quote: Are we moving too fast in our rush to blend the races? When you consider all the violence and discrimination that can be attributed to cultural differences and racial predjudice, its seems to me that we are. If race mixing is pursued at a more cautious pace, then perhaps we could have the best both biologically and socially.

If culural/"racial" differences cause violence and discrimination, how can rapid "race mixing" possibly be bad?

	27-05-2002 10:43									#11
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i agree with ramo

	27-05-2002 10:47									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ethelred- Forcing races to mix will not stop anyone from thinking in racial terms. I believe we are ingrained to think in racial terms. We all think this way, whether we admit it or not.

What forcing? There is no forcing going on UNLESS you are calling anti-descrimination laws forcing. I don't think that way in those terms. People are individuals. I only think of people as groups when they band together.

quote: What you are saying is that if the races in the US were indistinguishable from each other, there would be no racial problems. One race in other words. So if one race is your ideal, why are you in favor of race mixing on such a grand scale?

That question shows you think in VERY racial terms. Its smacks of bigotry.

My ideal is for no to give a damn. In which case there would soon be only one race. Might take a dozen generations or less. Look at Brazil for a perfect example of a society without race due to mixing.

quote: It seems that you can see the social value of having a nation of people who are mostly of the same race and culture, yet you support race mixing on a grand scale.

I support a lack of bigotry. You seem to be a part of the problem.

quote: So you think that as long as two people have the same amount of money they are of the same culture? This is obviously wrong.

It wasn't what I said at all so no wonder its wrong. Not surprising that you would get all wrong. I said IN THE US that blacks have the same culture as the whites EXCEPT for money and the results of bigots. People like what you apear to be are the cause of the latter.

In Africa people do have different cultures. Those didn't survive slavery.

	27-05-2002 12:27									#13
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Cal,

What are you talking about?? There's no enforced race-mixing in terms of marriage, etc. People **** who they want ****.

You're getting a bit too wierded out by the whole race thing...

	27-05-2002 12:33									#14
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Ethelred hit the nail on the head.
'Nuff said.

	27-05-2002 12:58									#15
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screw diversity.

I'm hoping all of the human race will be come one race.

and people f*ck each other because they want to f*ck each other

	27-05-2002 13:40									#16
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quote: and people f*ck each other because they want to f*ck each other

Or maybe they are just horny and the other person is too.

I admit I feel uncomfortable when everyone around is another race. I don't claim to be perfect. I just try to work at it.

If only my sister-in-laws relatives were into computers like she is. Then I would more to talk about with them. I lost interest in football a long time ago.

	27-05-2002 13:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia ..enforced race mixing ...

What the hell is that?

	27-05-2002 13:53									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Anunikoba What the hell is that?

Miscegenation on da ole plantation.

	27-05-2002 16:30									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GP Cal, What are you talking about?? There's no enforced race-mixing in terms of marriage, etc. People **** who they want ****. You're getting a bit too wierded out by the whole race thing...

Im not talking in terms of individual relationships, Im talking about the immigration policy of the US govt since 1965, the year the immigration reform act came into force. One of the aims of the bill was to ensure a far greater amount of non-white immigrants into the US. This is race mixing enforced by the US govt.

	27-05-2002 16:41									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred What forcing? There is no forcing going on UNLESS you are calling anti-descrimination laws forcing. I don't think that way in those terms. People are individuals. I only think of people as groups when they band together.

I am referring the the immigration reform act of 1965.

quote: That question shows you think in VERY racial terms. Its smacks of bigotry.

The fact is that there are different races of humans on this planet, how is recognising this fact "bigotry"?

quote: My ideal is for no to give a damn. In which case there would soon be only one race. Might take a dozen generations or less. Look at Brazil for a perfect example of a society without race due to mixing.

As I said before, to a certain extent we are ingrained to think in racial terms, so no amount of social engineering will eliminate this.

If Brazil is your idea of a model society then I would hate to see what would happen to the US if you were in charge.

quote: I support a lack of bigotry. You seem to be a part of the problem.

Im no bigot. You seem to be resorting to name-calling here, Im sure you can do better than that.

	27-05-2002 16:47									#21
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The 1965 Immigration Reform Act did away with nationality quotas, and promoted family reunification. The effect was a dramatic rise in asian immigration, an opposite effect than what the proponents had envisioned.

It certainly did not enforce race mixing. It just removed 'national origin' barriers already in place.

	27-05-2002 16:48									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I have no idea of which fantasy world you live in, but there is no "enforced race mixing" going on in the US or Europe. I've got a secret for you: people of different ethnicities generally interbreed because they actually want to, and their business is neither yours nor the state's.

Im talking about immigration policies, not individual relationships.

quote: If culural/"racial" differences cause violence and discrimination, how can rapid "race mixing" possibly be bad?

Because even with current immigration policies, it would take a very long time for the races in the US to be sufficiently mixed as to be indistinguishable, and in the meantime society pays a high price because of violence and discrimination. We both seem to have the same ideal - one race. We just disagree on how to get there.

	27-05-2002 16:51									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The 1965 Immigration Reform Act did away with nationality quotas, and promoted family reunification. The effect was a dramatic rise in asian immigration, an opposite effect than what the proponents had envisioned. It certainly did not enforce race mixing. It just removed 'national origin' barriers already in place.

Its undeniable that the act increased non-white immigration to the US exponentially. This forces different races to live with each other doesnt it?

I am not against race mixing per-se, I just think it needs to be done more cautiously.

	27-05-2002 16:54									#24
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You might be thinking of the 1990 Act, which I think is a step in the wrong direction as it reintroduces certain origin quotas (diversity immigrants). It isn't a very large percentage though.

quote: 1990 Immigration Act amended the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which remains the basic law. The new law raised the total number of numerically limited immigrants entering the U.S. annually in FY 1992-94 to 700,000 (excluding refugees whose admission numbers are announced annually and some others not subject to limitation). The visas were distributed as follows: 465,000 for family immigrants; 55,000 for the spouses and children of aliens legalized under IRCA [Immigration and Control Act of 1986]; 140,000 for employment- based immigrants; 40,000 for nationals from "adversely affected" countries. Beginning in FY 1995 the number dropped from 700,000 to 675,000. These visas were distributed as follows: 480,000 for family immigrants; 140,000 for employment-based immigrants; 55,000 for "diversity immigrants." Under the latter category, the allotment of FY 1995 visa numbers for each region was as follows: Africa 20,200; Asia 6,837; Europe 24,549; North America (Bahamas) 8; South, Central, and Caribbean America 2,589; and Oceania 817.

	27-05-2002 17:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson You might be thinking of the 1990 Act, which I think is a step in the wrong direction as it reintroduces certain origin quotas (diversity immigrants). It isn't a very large percentage though.

The 1990 act is also a problem, but the 1965 act got things started on the wrong track.

http://www.campus.ccsd.k12.co.us/ss...ta2/65-pres.htm

quote: It ordered elimination of the national origins quota system in favor of a worldwide quota blind to national origin.

	27-05-2002 17:06									#26
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quote: One of the aims of the bill was to ensure a far greater amount of non-white immigrants into the US. This is race mixing enforced by the US govt.

quote: Its undeniable that the act increased non-white immigration to the US exponentially. This forces different races to live with each other doesnt it?

You switched your use of 'force'.

If they allowed 1 person of a seperate ethnicity to immigrate it would 'force' race mixing in the context of the second quote. I can't see how this has any bearing on the discussion as the only way to not 'force' race mixing would be to deport everyone not of one chosen race.

In the context of your first quote, no, the government is not forcing race mixing composition. The 1965 act decreased compositional standards on basis of race/ethnicity.

In any case, we had a diverse ethnic background before 1965. To live in the US was to accept racial/ethnic diversity that comes with it. To claim that the government is forcing race mixing through immigration is somewhat absurd. To claim that by removing national origin barriers they are promoting certain races over others is equally absurd.

	27-05-2002 17:13									#27
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It wasn't exactly blind to national origin. The number of immigrants from any particular nation were limited still. 20,000 was the number from eastern hemisphere nations, and higher for western.

I don't see how removing quotas based on national origin promoted race mixing? Unless of course the quotas removed were biased towards one 'prefered' race... In which case they most certainly should have been changed.

	27-05-2002 17:15									#28
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quote: For the first time in history, a person from an Asian or African nation received the same consideration as a person from France or Germany.

From your link. Seems much more fair to me.

	27-05-2002 17:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I am referring the the immigration reform act of 1965.

Which isn't what you claim it was. Prior to that the immigration laws were VERY discriminatory. Removing that discrimination is not forced racial mixing. Heck even if it was for the purpose that you made up it wouldn't be forced racial mixing.

Calling anti-discrimation laws forced mixing of races does not speak well of your tolerance for other races.

quote: The fact is that there are different races of humans on this planet, how is recognising this fact "bigotry"?

I recognize it. You fixate on it. That smacks of bigotry. You are thinking in racial terms not merely recognizing the humans have local variations in some genes to adapt to local conditions.

quote: As I said before, to a certain extent we are ingrained to think in racial terms, so no amount of social engineering will eliminate this.

Mixing the races will change it and humans are not merely the products of genetics. We can learn. Well most of us can learn. You are having a very hard time with this.

quote: If Brazil is your idea of a model society then I would hate to see what would happen to the US if you were in charge.

Still distorting I see. I was only talking about the racial situation. They don't have one. We can do the same and there is no reason to think we must have their incomptent government to do so.

quote: Im no bigot. You seem to be resorting to name-calling here, Im sure you can do better than that.

I can use other terms if you find that offensive. Racist applies quite well to people that think in racial terms in their interactions with others. Bigot is nicer though. Doesn't have the implied violence that racist does even if the other term is actually more accurate. You sound a touch racist even if you don't hate.

How about we invent a word. Racialist: one who can't stop thinking of people in terms of their race instead of treating them as people.

	27-05-2002 17:27									#30
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