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XarXo
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of the "I agree"
Jul 2000
time: 05:19
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- LIST CLOSED -
Last updated in 17/X/02 at 13:57 CET
This thread should have posts showing interesting strategies/cheats that could appear with the new possibilities of PtW expansion.
RANKING OF LUCENT BRAINS
1.- 02+1/3 DrFell WINNER!!!!!
2.- 02+0/3 MJW
2.- 02+0/3 BigFurryMonster
2.- 02+0/3 ImmortalWombat
2.- 02+0/3 vulture
3.- 01+1/3 King of Rasslin
3.- 01+1/3 Oerdin
4.- 01+0/3 statusperfect
4.- 01+0/3 Nyl
4.- 01+0/3 Calc II
4.- 01+0/3 panag
4.- 01+0/3 notyoueither
4.- 01+0/3 hahntsak
4.- 01+0/3 starmouse
4.- 01+0/3 Lawrence of Arabia
5.- 00+0/3 Solver
CURRENT STRATEGIES IN THE THREAD
Please, write them as short as possible.
(The first is the last posted)
Diplomacy Spam by statusperfect
Diplomacy spam during turnless and simultaneous. Player A attacks player B. During the Attack player C & D send as many diplomacy requests as they can to player B.
King's Isle by Nyl
Playing Regicide or Mass Regicide, find a very small island and fill it with combat units plus your king(s). Unless someone is the Vikings, no one can touch your king until the late industrial age...
Reputation Killer by MJW
level: Deity - 2 humans, 14 AI
Make a deal with the other guy. Make in insane offer for peace. If he accepts He is down to one city. If says no you have just ruined his rep and he can not get anything for trades. Unless its for peace. Fix:Make peace in a way that you can talk about it.
Luxury Sharing++ by Calc II
in idea with the luxury sharing, You can do a resource sharing trick where your human ally in dire need of iron will be supplied by you, for around 2 turns or so. your partner switches all the production to knights, swordmen and other iron req. production and declare war on you. Trade is nulled and you get your iron back. Meanwhile you partner will be able to build swordmen and knights and when they are completed, you can sign treaty and repeat the process to build more.
War-Time Cure by MJW
This is pretty small cheat but you get out of a war-time by doing a "war" with a parther and geting peace.
Hidden nationality exploit by panag
hi ,
when a unit has "hidden nationality" and you are with that unit near an other AI , that civ can contact you , ....this exploit , bug or cheat from the AI is one that should be fixed , ...
have a nice day
"Teaming" as a general thing by BigFurryMonster
People who are often playing together, might starting to help each other in the following way: in game A, player 1 helps player 2 to win (at his own expense) and in game B vice versa. This can really upset other players playing in only one of the games.
Fake Civs by hahntsak
similar to the mutual 'battle training' area cheat mentioned earlier, in multiplayer, where 2 or more players know each other: fodder civilizations, possibly ran by a (robot) thatcould build conquerone flank and give stuff to the 'parent' state.
this is one of the oldest forms of multiplayer cheat. it works within the game as another player [sep node/internet acct]
example
charlie has his friends jake and ted whoop on some guy in germany and a bloke in london: ted and jake play civs in same theater charlie. in game chat is irrelevant as they can utilize 3rd party chat utility. they can contact each other quicker [sending screen shots of location], then form flanks, have brief 'wag the gog' wars to get leaders, and otherwise share their resources freely orflowingstraight to charlie's state. when other civs deal with any of them they get the raw deal from all of them especially when knownto be human and particularly when they are known to be that german and brit that they aim to cream. they form mutual defense and right of passage aggreements asap.
their nationalities could be same jake could be in the uk,ted in spain and contacted via email by charlie to whoop up on the guy nextdoor [for a personal grudge].
same method.
the fodder part comes when an ivading army comes in the weaker 2 give every city over to the stronger one and all cash too. the new combined nation fed off its fodder and the lesser states only retain their capitols.
these contain their only military.
but taking these cities out gives little payoff to the victor as the money washauledoff and as the gobbling state may lose a few it suddenly has huge increase and bigger purse.
this cheat has been used time and time again....
the idea of dummy accts to form a 'fallguy' player in a game is not new.
anybody got a robot or can make one? anybody evergonna admit it.
note a robot differes from AI in that some human is pulling its strings and the other human player don't know it, much less the AI states.
hey 2/3 PCs and 2/3 ISP accts and one person could pull it off as he'd apear as 2/3 different people. [at least in turn mode.
The Pollutor by BigFurryMonster
A relatively small civ that cannot win anymore can seriously mess up things for other civs by allowing pollution to get out of hand.
They will suffer themselves, too, but they might just destroy the earth by this strategy.
Using AI for Obtain Advances by Lawrence of Arabia
Heres a trick I used in my SP game against the Babs.
Every nation in the world was fighting them and they were down to one city. I set my science to 0, and then contacted them to make peace. Since they were more advanced, I managed to get Rocketry and Fisson for Peace and 173 gpt. That same turn I attacked them. So I got the techs and I didn't have to pay for any of it.
Swapping Cities Reduces Unhappiness by star mouse
Exploit: When a city changes hands, the unhappiness generated by pop-rushing and drafting is halved. Two players could swap the same city three or four times to reduce rampant misery to a manageable level.
Fix: Have 1 unhappiness variable for each civ. When a city swaps back, the unhappiness for the original civ is restored, as if the civ never changed hands.
When adding unhappiness caused by drafting or pop-rushing, add 1 "unhappiness" to the variable for the current civ, and 1/2 "unhappiness" for all the others.
Mobilization for Wonders by Solver
(Removed)
Chat or No Chat: by King of Rasslin, DrFell & Oerdin
- About Chat (King of Rasslin) -
How about not being able to communicate with a player you haven't contacted yet? I think that would make expansionist more useful. Finding an ally early...
- Chat is an option (DrFell) -
There was an option for that in civ2 as well... not many people used it though as it's kinda fun to chat before meeting any players... and the players could still make contact over icq or something. Should still be an option though, I guess.
- Always Chat (Oerdin) -
I would be totally against this. What happens if a player has to go? How do you negoiate when the new start time will be? How do you remind the host to save the game? How would someone say "brb, I have a phone call"? Plus many people enjoy chating when it is not their turn.
In every good MP game the players must be able to communicate with each other...
Minimap Position by Immortal Wombat
Someone suggested a fix for that (ixnay maybe?). Each person's starting location shows up at the centre of their own mini-map. That way you have to do a fair amount of exploration before either you hit the poles, or a climate zone that you can describe.
Map Exploit by Oerdin
What do you folks think about allies, who haven't meet yet in the game, telling each other where their kingdoms are located on the map. That way they can explore their way to each other much fast, exchange maps, and jointly attack who ever is unlucky enough to be between them.
Worker Sharing by King of Rasslin
2 Civs go to "war" and share workers. If they are both industrious, it's like getting normal workers for free. The worst part is, I cannot see how they could fix this exploit 
Silent Invasion by Immortal Wombat
I don't know if this will work quite like this in Civ3, but I like it when I want to kick start a war on a far away continent that's hard to reach.
- Move units out of a fairly decent, well defended, city to the next square.
- Give a city to the AI in return for another city. This gives you a beachhead in their territories. (or if the AI is harsh, and you're desperate, some gold, or their map)
- Retake the city. 
Abandoning cities by DrFell
Ok, everyone wants our cities to be manageable when it's not our turn, to speed the game up in turn based mode. But, what if the 'abandon city' option were available at all times? Imagine you're being attacked in the early game by a large army. You have more cities, but he has lots of units and lots to gain by capturing your cities. What would I do in that situation? I'd wait until the last unit in every city fell, and abandon them one by one. This way he is gaining nothing (but free land) and in a 4-way that could mean he's behind all game, especially if he's on an island and can't transport those units anywhere else. Conquering would be worthless and the game would boil down to a few empires racing for wonders and down the tech tree.
To fix it? Just make it so that cities cannot be abandoned until the turn after you order them so.
Drafting/Pop rushing by DrFell
Very similar to abandon city, basically when the city gets attacked keep drafting(if it's allowed when it's not your turn) or pop rushing units. If you know you're going to lose the city, you might as well screw your opponent. The attacker inherits a size 1 city with huge unhappiness which will never be gotten rid of.
To fix it, prevent drafting except on your turn, and remove pop rushing inherited unhappiness.
Luxury Sharing by vulture
Not sure if this would work or not. If the duration of deals is negotiable, rather than fixed at 20 turns, then it might.
Civ A has a luxury (but only one source of it) that civ B wants. On Civ A's turn, he offers it to B. At the start of B's turn, the book-keeping is done, and B gets the happiness benefits. During B's turn he trades the luxury back to A. So on A's book-keeping phase, he has the luxury again. Rinse and repeat.
Obviously, takes a bit or micro-management, but if it works the net result is that at the start of each player's turn they have access to the luxury and get the happiness benefits. So 2 civs get the benefits from a single luxury resource.
This would only work in turn-based multiplayer, and might not even then (the book-keeping of happiness may happen in a different way to what I am imagining here).
Leader wars & variants by vulture
It seems to me that the best way to run these is for each side to agree to create a certain number of cheap cannon fodder units to be killed by the ally. Archers, with 20 cost, 1 defence, would seem to be ideal. Just stick them in a big stack in a designated kill zone and ley your friend attack them with whatever he wants to. A stack of 50, if attacked entirely by elites, will generate on average 3 great leaders (4 if you have the heroic epic, or whichever wonder it is that increases the odds of leader production). If you only have veterans to start with then you get a lower return of course. But 3 leaders are worth more than the 1000 shields required to build your 50 target archers in the first place, so on average both sides make a profit. As long as you have swordsmen or better for your attacking units, you won't take very many casualties from your elite force either.
A variant is to trade techs or whatever else to someone for them to produce a certain number of target archers for you to kill. This is a bit more of a gamble - they gain a tech at the cost of however many shields worth of archers you agree on, and you gain perhaps a 50% chance of a great leader, or a 50% chance of nothing in return.
Privateers Disc by notyoueither
If you turn 'Show Team Color Disc' on, you can see the owner of units with Hidden Nationality (like Privateers). No real problem in SP, but would be an issue in MP. Oh, and they misspelled 'colour' 
Common cities
Some human civs create some cities with wonders. When a civ is in war, the others offer the cities to improve the battle/money of this empire during the war. After this, the empire returns the cities.
The solution could be that Alliances admit share (with an option list) the "Big" Wonders effects (when is possible, probably they aren't in the same continent) another civ. This is better because an AI can ask them as a part of an alliance.
Building Pact
A minor human civ offers to a major one to build the roads in a far area, in exchange of alliances/money/knowledges. Useful when you are the big one and everybody is in war with you.
Leader Wars
Two human players make a fake war to create Leader units. They create a "training area" with some units that fight. The idea is generate 2/3 leaders and finish the "war".
Leaders make possible to finish wonders like Forbidden Palace and build Armies (and armies allow to build small wonders like Heroic Epic). So... An amaizing strategy. 
False Time Credit
Create a lot useless units (explorers for example) and you obtain more time credit.
If the time avaible is for using each unit in each moment, this strategy doesn't have any effect.
Internet Connection Attack
Using the IP of a joined player, attack the other connection by PING bombaring, this will disconnect a player in crucial moments.
Fix: Must have a Firewall, or active the one that is included in Windows XP.
(this "strategy"/"cheat" is nasty, I know)
Last edited by XarXo on 31-10-2002 at 20:28
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Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
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Keep ideas like this coming. We'd rather address them now rather than later.
Jeff
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XarXo
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of the "I agree"
Jul 2000
time: 05:19
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Yes, "Building Pact" can't be seen as a cheat. I believe that I missed the thread title. It should be: "Interesting Strategies".
EDIT: Check the first post for a list of the thread strategies.
Last edited by XarXo on 29-05-2002 at 01:36
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PhoenixPhlame73
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San Antonio, Texas
Apr 2002
time: 23:19
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If there is any sort of win/loss/draw record, you can bet it will be abused by people who create a game with 15 humans and one comp.....
The backstabbers will likely be one of teh biggest annoyances, especially if the relation ship is as posted earlier, a communist nation defending a creating infrastructre for a democratic 100% tech nation, the communist nation could simply decide to take out the democratic one. I think that there should be some method to make diplomatic agreements more binding besides just not having the computer like you as much.
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vulture
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Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:19
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Leader wars - and variants
It seems to me that the best way to run these is for each side to agree to create a certain number of cheap cannon fodder units to be killed by the ally. Archers, with 20 cost, 1 defence, would seem to be ideal. Just stick them in a big stack in a designated kill zone and ley your friend attack them with whatever he wants to. A stack of 50, if attacked entirely by elites, will generate on average 3 great leaders (4 if you have the heroic epic, or whichever wonder it is that increases the odds of leader production). If you only have veterans to start with then you get a lower return of course. But 3 leaders are worth more than the 1000 shields required to build your 50 target archers in the first place, so on average both sides make a profit. As long as you have swordsmen or better for your attacking units, you won't take very many casualties from your elite force either.
A variant is to trade techs or whatever else to someone for them to produce a certain number of target archers for you to kill. This is a bit more of a gamble - they gain a tech at the cost of however many shields worth of archers you agree on, and you gain perhaps a 50% chance of a great leader, or a 50% chance of nothing in return.
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vulture
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Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:19
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LUXURY SHARING
Not sure if this would work or not. If the duration of deals is negotiable, rather than fixed at 20 turns, then it might.
Civ A has a luxury (but only one source of it) that civ B wants. On Civ A's turn, he offers it to B. At the start of B's turn, the book-keeping is done, and B gets the happiness benefits. During B's turn he trades the luxury back to A. So on A's book-keeping phase, he has the luxury again. Rinse and repeat.
Obviously, takes a bit or micro-management, but if it works the net result is that at the start of each player's turn they have access to the luxury and get the happiness benefits. So 2 civs get the benefits from a single luxury resource.
This would only work in turn-based multiplayer, and might not even then (the book-keeping of happiness may happen in a different way to what I am imagining here).
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:19
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To Jeff: when dealing with those issues, please don't try to make them all impossible... we *will* have to rely on players' fairness, too. However, I think MP modes must include a lock teams options, having pre-set teams that allies can't declare war on each other.
I think it's obvious that allies will share all of the resources and luxuries, but it's worrying, to me. Imagine a game with 3 allies on one side. All three try to perform a good land-grab right until the middle of the Middle Ages, so that they have many luxuries. Considering there are only 8 luxury resources, those 3 civs will probably have control of all, thus trading, and 20 happy faces for EACH city - very little unhappiness problems and lots of WLT*D, no?
Hell, I've played an SP game on a O shaped continent with just one middle size island being away from it - and there I controlled six luxuries in the Middle Ages, just due to lots of place to colonize. And had lots of celebrations, obviously.
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DrFell
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Here is what I put in my (similar) thread:
1 - Abandoning cities
Ok, everyone wants our cities to be manageable when it's not our turn, to speed the game up in turn based mode. But, what if the 'abandon city' option were available at all times? Imagine you're being attacked in the early game by a large army. You have more cities, but he has lots of units and lots to gain by capturing your cities. What would I do in that situation? I'd wait until the last unit in every city fell, and abandon them one by one. This way he is gaining nothing (but free land) and in a 4-way that could mean he's behind all game, especially if he's on an island and can't transport those units anywhere else. Conquering would be worthless and the game would boil down to a few empires racing for wonders and down the tech tree.
To fix it? Just make it so that cities cannot be abandoned until the turn after you order them so.
2 - Drafting/Pop rushing
Very similar to abandon city, basically when the city gets attacked keep drafting(if it's allowed when it's not your turn) or pop rushing units. If you know you're going to lose the city, you might as well screw your opponent. The attacker inherits a size 1 city with huge unhappiness which will never be gotten rid of.
To fix it, prevent drafting except on your turn, and remove pop rushing inherited unhappiness.
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DrFell
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quote:
Originally posted by Cesa
One has to be really good friends with someone to pull this of. What if your opponent simply refuses to give the city back to you?? I wouldn't risk it. I've never played MP (in Civ2 or SMAC that is), do people really dare to use this kind of advanced diplomacy? |
Well, unless the city was for some reason a long way from your core cities, it would be really easy for you to take it back. Most wonder cities will be located in your productive core. And when you swap cities round it becomes undefended. So I wouldn't be afraid of that kind of betrayal. Unless the city was coastal and he had a couple ships full of pikemen or whatever just off your coastline.
In civ2, I never used to do the city/wonder swap and most people considered it a cheat, although officially there was nothing stopping you from doing it.
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DrFell
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Hehe, I forgot about that. But I'd exact a campaign of revenge against such a backstabbing ally anyway. Normally though, the only allies I would give cities to would be my parter in a team game - where alliances are set from the beginning. This BTW is the only state of the game where 'alliance locking' would be beneficial. Anyone who pulls a stunt like that in a team/tribe game would end up getting a worse reputation in the game as a whole anyway (I've never heard of it happening when civ2 tribes were still being played, although one guy quit halfway through a tribe game, he got booted out the tribe etc.), so I wouldn't be too worried.
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28-05-2002 19:16
backstabbing
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