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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Womyn are treated with great respect here. Just because there are more womyn partners up north doesn't mean they get more respect. It could be that they are attracted to the dirty politics up there. |
BULLSHIT! The reason there aren't as many womyn partners in the South is because the glass ceiling is lower. It is the worst kept secret is that the South treats womyn more like objects than any other part of the country does. Where are the best Womyn Studies Programs in universities? Yep the NorthEast (with Rutgers being #1... *inflates chest in show of pride*).
We allow womyn to be more equal up here, while the South is just learning how to do that. Why do you think more Northern womyn end up going to the major cities, like Atlanta, Dallas, Raleigh, etc, in the South (as opposed to the midsized or even small cities)?
You Southerners have a far, far way to go before you have womyn treated equally with men. The cities are, thankfully, very close to how things are in the North. |
Imran, you talk with the air of one who has garnered all their facts from anecdotes and supposition, with little experience in the place. Given what you've said earlier on this board in other posts, you have not spent any real time here in the South, so your baseless accusations (founded on biased speculation) should be treated as such.
Have you spent any time in the rural north? And I don't mean someplace like Concord, MA, a small town but one within 30 minutes of a population center of 3,000,000... I mean places like Glens Falls, NY, Elmira, NY, Torrington, CT? People there are just as racist and as misogynist as... well, people everywhere.
Things I've learned up North*:
... Prostitution should be considered distasteful, but not so that the sight of streetwalkers should be jarring. You know, I was 20 years old before I saw my first whore. In Darien, CT... one of the "nicer" places in a very crappy state. Once I knew what to look for I noticed they were everywhere. Well, not everywhere, but every city up north had it's whore district. I once had some guy knock on my hotel door and offer me his sister for sex! Fact is Imran, I never had anything like that happen to me in Gunthersville, AL. Or Griffin, GA. Or Orangeburg, SC. Or, ... but you get the idea.
... It's easier to abandon old factories than it is to fight the government to allow you to do what's needed to improve them. Hence Bridgeport, CT.
... Property and school taxes in NY are so high it is very, very common for retirees to have to split their paid-for houses up into separate apartments in order to pay them. I consider this to be an abomination and you can imagine my relish in telling the natives so. But the little sheep... I bet the problem still exists. Is likely worse, even. 
All these problem affect women, they are happening in your backyard, and all you care to concern yourself with is the plight of women law-partners in Clemson, SC? C'mon! 
* This is not to imply that the listed items never occur in the South (except for maybe the house thing... I have yet to see something like that down here!), but I will wager that they are far more prevelant (sp!) up North.
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Imran, Imran, Imran. Its just that Northern propaganda keeps infusing ideas into your head. There isn't enough TV shows based in the South to give people the correct idea. |
I know the correct idea, Apoc. Stop trying to pull this Northern propaganda ****. The fact is that in the South, womyn aren't treated with the same respect in the workplace, you can't change facts.
And you can't change the experiences my g/f has had dealing with Southern womyn (and I don't think any of them were from Atlanta). I'm sorry but using 'Southern graciousness' to get a job doesn't speak volumes of your society. |
Damn, Imran, you're just lighting my fuse today. Congratulations! 
Given that your evidence is anecdotal, allow me to counter-argue in the same manner:
I run 4 departments in my company with a total of 35-65 people under me (depending upon volume of work). Every single manager under me is female, except for one guy who is a homosexual male. One department is entirely female (just three people, but still). 40% of our field managers are female (a sample of 25). The owner of the company is female and we are projected to do $15mil in revenues and $2 mil in profits in FY 2002, so we know our ****.
The after-hours vet in the same building as us is formed of a partnership of 2 female vets and 2 male vets.
The cellular phone store in the same building is owned and operated by a woman.
The founder of the company that manages our corporate 401(k) plan is a woman. http://www.thetrust.com/history.htm
Plus I bet they all know how to spell "women".
Note that this is all taking place in Knoxville, Tennessee, a state without an income tax. Note too that Knoxville is a southern city, one in which it is impossible to find a subdivided home due to a crippling tax burden.
Anyway, you are truly speaking out of your ass on this one: please stop, as you're fouling up the room. 
Last edited by JohnT on 01-06-2002 at 10:39
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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You are Knoxville, John, a major city. And it is funny how you totally disregared Boris' post.
quote:
I work for an executive recruiter, and can tell "y'all" from first-hand experience that Imran is pretty on-the-mark. We have a great deal of Southern clients, some pretty huge ones, and I can't think of one of them that hasn't hired a white male. Several women came back from interviews and complained they felt condescended to while there. One of the biggest of them (a really big one, everyone knows), rejected a candidate due to his sexual orientation (after which I demanded to be taken off the search). |
Sorry, the South is known for keeping the glass ceiling lower on womyn. It's track record for hiring females to higher levels is abysmal. The Midwest isn't much better.
edit: Hell, look at some of your elected leaders. Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Newt Gingrich. And IIRC, Falwell, Robertson, and (Billy) Graham are all from down there.
Also the whole emphasis on chivalry. Chivalry also requires a certain way of acting for womyn, based on the Victorian model. Under a chivalric/victorian code, womyn that 'sleep around' are thought of as lesser than those who stay chaste. The whole idea of chivarly is an outdated, patriarical concept.
Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 01-06-2002 at 23:15
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Apocalypse
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Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:19
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On the issue of food, how can anyone in their right mind say that Northern food is better? We know how to use spices, its just that you weaklings can seem to handle much of them.
Now on for drinks, South is far better in this area. When you go to a resturant in the South, the refills will almost always be free. On my "vacations" up North, nearly every resturant wants money each time I get my glass filled. This is an injustice. They give you a drink first, with nothing really to do and it isn't hard to have already comsume most of it before the food gets there. Even with the small servings of food in the North (further ripping people off), I finish my drink long before I'm done eating. Now, how am I going to remove the horrible Northern food taste from my mouth? Buy a drink I would have gotten free in the South. What a shame.
On Chivalry. How is 'sleeping around' all that good? I'm not saying to be perfectly chaste (few in the South are), but it is best not to sleep with people unless they are really good looking or you care about them to a good extent. So many things can go wrong.
About people who were elected, the Southerns we disowned such as Gore and Clinton are loved up there. We still have many good civil rights guys like LBJ.
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:19
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You know, there is this diner on Boston Post Rd (or is it Connecticut Ave?) in Norwalk, CT that had just huge, delicious freakin' meals at relatively high prices. I didn't say the food was cheap, just good. Pizza was better up north, not to mention all the "ethnic" cuisines - Chinese, Greek, and Italian just to mention a few. My God, you'd just go to this nasty hole in the wall that'd you would never find in the bright, sterile suburbs of Atlanta and get the best freakin' chili dog you've ever eaten. The only food that routinely sucks in the north is Mexican... but I haven't been up there in 4 years so things could've changed.
Oh, and Friendly's restaurants. Those suck too.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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quote:
On my "vacations" up North, nearly every resturant wants money each time I get my glass filled. |
Which restaurants have you been to?
quote:
On Chivalry. How is 'sleeping around' all that good? I'm not saying to be perfectly chaste (few in the South are), but it is best not to sleep with people unless they are really good looking or you care about them to a good extent. So many things can go wrong. |
If men can 'sleep around' why can't women? Why can't they take control of their sexual freedoms? If they use protection, who cares?
Chivalry is basically (even if it isn't obvious on the face of it) something that keeps women down. Think about it. Chivalry is doing things for women that you wouldn't normally do for a man. I hold doors open for both genders. I carry bags for both genders. Why do we need a system where one gender must do things for the other gender?
Sometimes I ask my girlfriend to carry a bag or something, and she usually refuses. Why? Because she can do it herself. The idea of chivalry basically tells women they CAN'T do it themselves and need a man to help them (Same argument with Affirmative Action Quotas and blacks, basically). It is a system that promotes the idea that a woman needs man to do many things (maybe not intentionally, but it is there).
Another anecdote. One of my g/f's friends is from South Carolina, and she came up to Rutgers. She said she went to college to get her 'M.R.S.' (ie, find a husband). Apparently she has met a few others that also think this way, but they all come from the south. THIS is the byproduct of chivalry. The sooner it is gotten rid of, the better.
And yes, John is right, ethnic food is better in the North. Can't find a damn good pizza place anywhere down there .
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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quote:
Would they prefer it if I slammed the door in thier face? |
They would prefer it if you just let the door go then  .
quote:
Re MRS degrees: You're going to have to do better to prove that it is a result of Southern Culture. Unless of course, you are willing to tell me that women from the North never engage in such behavior |
There might be, but all the hundreds of Northern women I've met, I've never heard one saying they want their MRS. It might happen up here, but at a MUCH less clip than in the South. If it happens in the NE, it is much to rare to be significant.
Fact is, if I was a woman (no jokes ) I'd NEVER apply to Law School to the South of Virginia. Yes, Atlanta, Miami, Knoxville are fairly progressive, but it just doesn't have a good reputation for treating women fairly. Just like I was advised not to go to Washington & Lee for undergrad because of the color of my skin, some areas aren't considered good places for some people.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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quote:
I've been to places that are in both the north and south from McDonalds and Applebees. The northern counterparts almost always require you to pay for the refills and the portions are usually smaller up north. |
Then you haven't been to too many. I agree in part, that on a whole, Northern food places have smaller portions. I also agree that there are more places that don't have free refills. However, with the refills, I'd say it is fifty-fifty, depending on where you go. I mean, ANY Applebees I've been to soda has always been free refills.
quote:
Men shouldn't sleep around either. Not every guy in the South is out to get some from just any woman. They can take control of their sexual freedoms. It just isn't a good idea to have that much sex with that many people. Protection doesn't always work either. |
Maybe you believe they shouldn't. But who are you to tell them that they can't do what they want. By sleeping around, I mean they are having casual sex, not that they are cheating, btw (if that caused any confusion). If they want to have casual sex, while they aren't dating anyone, I don't see how that hurts people.
However, you have to admit there is a double standard between a man and a woman if they have a lot of sex.
quote:
We hold the door open because it is grouped in with paying for dinners and all that. Women typically make less money, why should they then have to spend more? |
Are you trying to make my point .
Holding doors open is part of paying for dinners? Where did that idea ever come from? And some women do not make less than the man they are seeing, so do you still have to hold the door and pay for dinner? Chivalry says you do.
Anecdote alert: Me and my g/f always share the cost of dinner, hold doors open for each other (which means she sometimes holds the door open for me as well). I've treated her to dinner at times (birthday, etc), but she's done the same for me. I don't think it is the man's duty to pay for dinner and hold the door open for a woman. That is just behind the times these days (IMO).
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Apocalypse
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Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:19
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quote:
Then you haven't been to too many. |
Its not just those two places. Others include those A&W Root Beer places and Planet Hollywood. And another thing, the words soda and pop. Extremely annoying words. Soft drink and cola sound so much nicer.
quote:
I agree in part, that on a whole, Northern food places have smaller portions. I also agree that there are more places that don't have free refills. |
You're getting ripped off.
quote:
But who are you to tell them that they can't do what they want. By sleeping around, I mean they are having casual sex, not that they are cheating, btw (if that caused any confusion). If they want to have casual sex, while they aren't dating anyone, I don't see how that hurts people. |
It can hurt themselves, and I was even talking about if it is between a boyfriend and girlfriend if its on the first or second date. Its just like telling people not to put salt in their eye. We don't use any force to keep them from doing it, but we look down upon those who do.
quote:
Holding doors open is part of paying for dinners? Where did that idea ever come from? And some women do not make less than the man they are seeing, so do you still have to hold the door and pay for dinner? Chivalry says you do. |
If the woman makes more then it is even more important to hold the door open, because there is probably someone richer who would. Southern girls like guys who are nice to them. They aren't superficial. This is how I got in a very close relationship.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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quote:
Oh you brought up a name I detest. |
Same here .
quote:
Its not just those two places. Others include those A&W Root Beer places and Planet Hollywood. And another thing, the words soda and pop. Extremely annoying words. Soft drink and cola sound so much nicer. |
Yes, I know it wasn't those two places, but I'm saying that it is 50-50 for free refills up here.
quote:
You're getting ripped off. |
We get ripped off (compared to the South) everywhere up here . You just have to pick where to get ripped off less. And, like said, ethnic food (except Mexican) is much better up here.
quote:
It can hurt themselves, and I was even talking about if it is between a boyfriend and girlfriend if its on the first or second date. Its just like telling people not to put salt in their eye. We don't use any force to keep them from doing it, but we look down upon those who do. |
We shouldn't!! If they hurt themselves, so what? It is a part of growing up. Just because a b/f and g/f have sex on the first date doesn't mean they are horrible people. It doesn't mean they've done anything wrong!! (are you getting that this has happened to me ). How can we dictate to them that they shouldn't have casual sex 'to protect them from getting hurt'. I don't think we should. Why? Because I don't think that it will hurt them to have sex before marriage.
quote:
If the woman makes more then it is even more important to hold the door open, because there is probably someone richer who would. Southern girls like guys who are nice to them. They aren't superficial. This is how I got in a very close relationship. |
Tell you are joking? You just described superficiality and said they aren't superficial  . If you don't like a guy because he didn't hold the door open, you are being very, very superficial. Being nice is a totally different thing entirely.
And if the woman makes more it is more important to hold the door because there is someone richer that would?! God, you have some really ****ed up views. Are you saying that Southern women go for the richer guys who hold doors open?
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01-06-2002 07:03
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