21-06-2002 22:24									#271
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And which would that be? And why does Roland know it?

	21-06-2002 22:31									#272
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Schmelzer. I 'bout got thrown out of a lady Praguer's house for having this last name. Had to explain that the family was American, not German.

Damn Germans can't keep your paws off others' territory.

I think Kaliningrad should go to Lithuania because of this. Renamed to New Vilnius.

	21-06-2002 22:33									#273
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Silly.

Now that you said that I say it should be repopulated and then there should be a referendum

	21-06-2002 22:42									#274
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Let the dead sleep, Ecthelion. Last time Germany had a city there, there was a calamity that would make Volgograders weep.

Let's just mark it up to bad German management.

	21-06-2002 22:44									#275
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As soon as any country in that region is a part of the EU (which will then have an East border similar to ours in '41 ), it won't matter anymore anyway.

They'd do anything to get support from us

	21-06-2002 22:52									#276
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Let's be clear. Germans can't bank for sh!t, Ecthelion. The Austrians will win hands down.

No anschluss this time. Unless y'all want to become part of Austria.

	21-06-2002 23:09									#277
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"This is one issue on which Russian democracy has failed to take hold: Russians still are not permitted to live where they wish, but are subjected to Soviet-style "propiska," or residence permit regulations."

Is this still true?

Where's Serb when you need him?

	22-06-2002 00:31									#278
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It's midsummer, another excuse for backward European peoples for binge drinking.

	22-06-2002 00:35									#279
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He's not European. He's Asian.

	22-06-2002 00:37									#280
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He's Russian IIRC. And he's of the drinking kind. So midsummer is a good excuse for him.

	23-06-2002 08:53									#281
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damn it all you krouts. OUT!!!

	23-06-2002 09:05									#282
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OK, first of all the former Konigsburg region has been completely wiped clean of any and all germans. They were either killed defending from the Soviet advance or EXPELLED to germany.

Secondly, it was ONLY the prussian lands that were incorporated into SU that had any connection with germany. Most of the cities in the west have native Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian, Baltic etc, populations there as they have had for many hundreds of years. Soon someone will come up and claim that Kiev was once a german city. You'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE besides the jews who speak anything resembling german in any part of the former SU, including the volga germans. I can bet that most of them don't even know they were once germans and have intermarried with so many russians that to call them germans would be a joke.

Lastly, the Kaliningrad region is now as Russian as borsh and pirogi (tho borsh is actually more of a ukrainian thing). It has nothing to do with Lithuania or anyone else. The reason Russia will not give it up even though its so vast, is because its situated so awkwardly for any kind of access to the world's shipping lanes. The baltic access gives Russia a "warm" water port in the European region. END.

Du bist ein schiesskopf.

	23-06-2002 09:15									#283
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "This is one issue on which Russian democracy has failed to take hold: Russians still are not permitted to live where they wish, but are subjected to Soviet-style "propiska," or residence permit regulations." Is this still true? Where's Serb when you need him?

yes, its true. but propiskas aren't as "impossible" to get as they were in the soviet times. today you just have to deal with a bunch of paperwork, in the soviet times it was more of a control of the population/political thing.

personally I wish they would do away with this thing. its really silly. on the other hand, this takes root with the time of the serfs not the soviets. that's simply how russians deal with residency status and it makes the census a burocratic operation.

I think the reason it still exists is because, A) everyone wants to move to Moscow, it officially has a population of 9 million based on the propiska's but in reality is closer to 12 or 13 million; B) its a way for the gov't burocrats to collect money.

	23-06-2002 09:22									#284
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Here's the Siberia journal that they did last year. Sometimes the pics are screwed up, so you might have to press Ctrl-R on some of them. Lots of really good articles and amazing pics. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...d/siberiadiary/ I laughed a long time when hearing about Surgut's "Five Minutes of America". http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...A46066-2001Sep5 Why doesn't Russia build a freeway/autobahn system? Guaranteed to raise the standard of living in the hinterlands substantially.

its simple. first of all, have you ever driven in michigan or canada? the winter months are brutal to asfault. the problem is one of upkeep. even after you build 7000 miles of ribbon, how do you upkeep it for more than a year? Russia simply doesn't have the money for that. nore is it the Russian way. in Russia things are built once and never touched again until they are either completely re-built or abandoned. you can see this "philosophy" in anything from building construction to military weapons/systems. that's why you can stick/bury a Kolashnikov in the sand, then pick it up and fire it like nothing happened. The aircraft are designed with super-heavy duty landing gear to permit landing on unpaved "air fields," etc.

on the other hand there is the trans-siberian RR. the kind of distances that separate cities in siberia are better traveled by RR or air than car or other personal vehicle. its a good 1 day's travel between civilization often times, with absolutely nothing but wilderness in between. just carrying enough fuel with you can be a problem.

	23-06-2002 16:34									#285
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oh yeah, one last thing about georgia vs armenia and azer. georgia should be in a better economic state than the other two simply because they haven't still recovered from a mutual distute that was an all out war for some 5 years. most of their industry is in disarray. if "peaceful" georgia is worse off economically than two countries which have been fighting a brutal war, than it really sais something about georgia's leadership...

	24-06-2002 03:30									#286
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" its simple. first of all, have you ever driven in michigan or canada? the winter months are brutal to asfault. the problem is one of upkeep. even after you build 7000 miles of ribbon, how do you upkeep it for more than a year? Russia simply doesn't have the money for that."

The Trans-Canada highway goes to about 55 degrees N, but admittedly this is where the weather is least harsh. Alaska has a partial highway system (Eastern 1/2), that I guess is bounded on the West by glaciers. Route 9 goes all the way to Prudhoe Bay (70 degrees North), but much isn't paved, so I guess it can be done in some situations. If the highway were to stay at about 50-55 degrees North, perhaps it could be done. Here's a funny page...

http://www.saabclub.com/238/alaska.htm

If it's not the Russian way, I can accept that, but I really wonder how Russia could develop any sort of flexible light industry and therefore a diversified economy in Siberia with such heavy reliance on rail.

I would suggest that integration of Siberia into the rest of Russia proper should be one of Russia's highest priorities. But I guess 7 days from Beijing to Moscow isn't so bad...

"its a good 1 day's travel between civilization often times, with absolutely nothing but wilderness in between. just carrying enough fuel with you can be a problem."

Well, you could always build gas stations, restaurants, and hotels along the way.

Last edited by DanS on 24-06-2002 at 03:52

	24-06-2002 03:56									#287
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Thanks for the explanation re residency permits.

" I think the reason it still exists is because, A) everyone wants to move to Moscow, it officially has a population of 9 million based on the propiska's but in reality is closer to 12 or 13 million; B) its a way for the gov't burocrats to collect money."

(B) makes sense, but why would anybody care if everybody moves to Moscow?

	24-06-2002 07:58									#288
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Thanks for the explanation re residency permits. " I think the reason it still exists is because, A) everyone wants to move to Moscow, it officially has a population of 9 million based on the propiska's but in reality is closer to 12 or 13 million; B) its a way for the gov't burocrats to collect money." (B) makes sense, but why would anybody care if everybody moves to Moscow?

this one is easier to answer so it goes first. Moscow is already over populated. some people are living in makeshift shaks on the outskirts of the city and many freeze to death on the strees every winter. basically russia isn't nearly as quick to respond to sudden population growth as places in the west. i think the gov't still does a lot of contract orders for buildings. burocrats will be burocrats and things take a while to develope.

	24-06-2002 08:35									#289
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quote: Originally posted by DanS " its simple. first of all, have you ever driven in michigan or canada? the winter months are brutal to asfault. the problem is one of upkeep. even after you build 7000 miles of ribbon, how do you upkeep it for more than a year? Russia simply doesn't have the money for that." The Trans-Canada highway goes to about 55 degrees N, but admittedly this is where the weather is least harsh. Alaska has a partial highway system (Eastern 1/2), that I guess is bounded on the West by glaciers. Route 9 goes all the way to Prudhoe Bay (70 degrees North), but much isn't paved, so I guess it can be done in some situations. If the highway were to stay at about 50-55 degrees North, perhaps it could be done. Here's a funny page... http://www.saabclub.com/238/alaska.htm If it's not the Russian way, I can accept that, but I really wonder how Russia could develop any sort of flexible light industry and therefore a diversified economy in Siberia with such heavy reliance on rail. I would suggest that integration of Siberia into the rest of Russia proper should be one of Russia's highest priorities. But I guess 7 days from Beijing to Moscow isn't so bad... "its a good 1 day's travel between civilization often times, with absolutely nothing but wilderness in between. just carrying enough fuel with you can be a problem." Well, you could always build gas stations, restaurants, and hotels along the way.

as the saying goes on sahalin, june is not yet summer, july is not anylonger summer. the siberian climate is much more harsh than you probably realise. Alaska and canada don't compare climatically I think to siberia. the earth there is really sandy in a lot of places and most of siberia is one gigantic swamp. building roads that will stand up to harsh punishment for longer than a couple of years is really quit expensive. I'm almost sure it will happen to some degree in the future though.

as far as "gas stations and resteraunts," i figured you would say something like that. its the american idealogy of service, and its the correct one. but it doesn't apply to siberia in the present. first you need a decent amount of traffic for those gas stations and restarunts to be viable in the middle of nowhere. you need to build housing and other amanities for the people who would man these service outposts to live and actually attract them there. at this point its a chicken and egg situation because i don't think that many people would actually travel that far on their own partely because they don't need to and partly because it would be an arduous journey. plus not that many people there have cars that are actually new/reliable enough to safely undertake such a journey. at this point such a concept is an unessesary luxury.

Its much more efficient to move by rail if on a budget, or by air if you need expediency. there are daily flights to novosebirsk from all over the world. same with vladivostok and many cities in between. siberia is not as isolated as you may think, in either the communications or transportation sense. so there.

	24-06-2002 13:43									#290
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also since you posted that one article about alaska, thought you might be interested in this C&D gem. its written by john phillips. that is unless you read it already.

I think iceland is a much better example of the kind of "highway" system russia will continue to have (and to a degree already has) in siberia.