17-06-2002 14:12									#181
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I didn't know Russia's GDP is that high....

	17-06-2002 23:26									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Roland I didn't know Russia's GDP is that high....

Well, at least we know their economy is growing then.

"how would you look at it?"

Sounds like Chicago, 1930s.

	18-06-2002 09:27									#185
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Vagabond: Ah, I see. When I look at him, I see somebody who is fiercely independent and who is competently reforming the Georgian system.

Fiercely independent?? Not quite appropriate characteristic for someone who is obsessed with converting his country into a Western pet state. The term "pet state" in relation to Georgia was used e.g. by Stratfor.com and by New York Times.

Interestingly enough, his foreign policy choice is highly personalized in contradiction with the "objective needs" of his country. Shevadnadze knows that he will always be well received in the West for his role in the late Soviet Union. Just the same as Gorby. On the other hand, he is disliked in Russia for the same reason. This is the reason for his bias. Only a new guy at the head of Georgia can break this vicious cycle and build a healthy relationship with Russia.

Notwithstanding, while looking through the CIA World Factbook, I was surprised at the fact that Georgia's GDP (PPP) per capita is 1.5 higher than in the neighboring Armenia and Azerbaijan... (does the CIA make favorable adjustments for pet states?? ). It is also higher than in Ukraine, and only less than 2 times lower than in Russia. Does this speak to Shevardnadze's competence??

	18-06-2002 09:36									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Saras And a swastika next to it, just to be consistent.

I don't see the red banner in this way. The Soviet history and the history of communist movements don't entirely reduce to Stalin's repressions.

	18-06-2002 09:40									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Saras What pisses me off is that Latvia and Estonia in fact do these things to some extent, but Lithuania is tainted as well, although none of these ever happened.

That's true. Lithuania is much better in this respect.

	18-06-2002 09:43									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Sort out the corruption, get some rule of law, dismantle the "krysha" system where you can't do any business without paying the "krysha", and you'll see wonderful results.

You seem to claim that you don't have the "krysha" system in Lithuania.

	18-06-2002 09:55									#189
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond The Soviet history and the history of communist movements don't entirely reduce to Stalin's repressions.

There's always Lenin's repressions.

	18-06-2002 11:24									#190
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond You seem to claim that you don't have the "krysha" system in Lithuania.

I don't claim, I proudly state it as a fact.

	18-06-2002 11:25									#191
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond I don't see the red banner in this way. The Soviet history and the history of communist movements don't entirely reduce to Stalin's repressions.

[stupid revisionist mode]Well, Hitler also created the VW Kaffer and built autobahns[/stupid revisionist mode]

	18-06-2002 11:40									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Saras I don't claim, I proudly state it as a fact.

Congratulations then.

BTW, according to the CIA World Factbook, it turns out that GDP (PPP) per capita in Russia is higher than in Lithuania! Then why is it a common belief that living standards in Lithuania are higher than in Russia?

	18-06-2002 11:47									#193
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Congratulations then. BTW, according to the CIA World Factbook, it turns out that GDP (PPP) per capita in Russia is higher than in Lithuania! Then why is it a common belief that living standards in Lithuania are higher than in Russia?

Yes, but most of that GDP is concentrated in Moscow while regions are in the sh!ts.

It might have changed, though - our 2001 GDP/cap is like 4000 EUR. What's Russia's?

And please, don't use CIA's econ stats - they're some of the crappiest.

	18-06-2002 12:05									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Yes, but most of that GDP is concentrated in Moscow while regions are in the sh!ts.

You are pretty much right here, Saras. Although some other big cities are not doing bad either.

quote: It might have changed, though - our 2001 GDP/cap is like 4000 EUR. What's Russia's?

Sorry for using CIA, but this is what I've got at hand right now.

GDP (PPP) per capita (2000 est.):

Lithuania $7,300
Russia $7,700

Well, this is PPP (purchase power parity). If counted in dollars at the exchange rate, yours would be about twice higher.

	18-06-2002 12:19									#195
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"Well, Hitler also created the VW Kaffer"

A VW coffee machine ?

"does the CIA make favorable adjustments for pet states??"

It's the "CIA fact book", right ? The connection is not the factbook of the CIA, but the book of "CIA facts".

About stats: I think Armenia is about equal with Georgia, and Russia roughly with Lithuania as far as GDP/capita goes. 7000 $ looks a bit much though....

	18-06-2002 12:34									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Roland It's the "CIA fact book", right ? The connection is not the factbook of the CIA, but the book of "CIA facts".

LOL

quote: About stats: I think Armenia is about equal with Georgia,

Extracts from the CIA book of facts:

Armenia $3,000
Georgia $4,600
Ukraine $3,850

quote: and Russia roughly with Lithuania as far as GDP/capita goes. 7000 $ looks a bit much though....

It's because it's PPP (purchase power parity). It would be lower in dollars at the current exchange rate.

	18-06-2002 12:47									#197
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I know, but I think I remember PPPs more in the 4-5000 $ range. But the worldbank has 7000-8000 $ as well... (maybe I just underestimated US inflation? )

	18-06-2002 14:51									#198
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Here we go, another Roland Stenish thread...

	18-06-2002 15:12									#199
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Maybe I'll check eurostat for the baltic states.

	18-06-2002 16:05									#200
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--"You are pretty much right here, Saras. Although some other big cities are not doing bad either."

Novosibirsk and Nizny Novgorod, isn't it?

	18-06-2002 18:37									#201
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CIA's information are silly. They always are.
For example, You can find their info about population of
Yemen, ending with n635 people or so. How did they count them so exactly if there was no measurement in
last 15 years? By satelite?

	18-06-2002 19:10									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson CIA's information are silly. They always are. For example, You can find their info about population of Yemen, ending with n635 people or so. How did they count them so exactly if there was no measurement in last 15 years? By satelite?

They probably were paying people to count Yemenese from satelite photos instead of investigating Al Qaida pre-9-11.

	18-06-2002 21:14									#203
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Russia sure has the best selection of lunatics - Victor Alksnis and Anatoly Chehoyev suggested to denounce the returning of Vilnius to Lithuania in 1939 to bully Lithuania into a visa-free regime with Kaliningrad. Makes me wanna beat the living **** out of that 1991 August "putchist" bastard Alksnis, kill him and eat his bones.

	18-06-2002 21:25									#204
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I just read an interview of this slimebag (Alksnis) where he says that the deaths of 14 people at the Vilnius TV tower and TV station in January 1991 was a "a political provocation of separatist circles of Latvia and Lithuania, i.e. of Lithuanian Sayudis and People’s Front of Latvia. Namely they were interested in bloody compromising of the Soviet Army and of the Soviet Union’s law-enforcement bodies, while showing that the evil empire (as the West used to call the Soviet Union) was annihilating peaceful people".

He's a member of the Rusian Duma now.

	19-06-2002 01:10									#205
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So, there are some good people in the Duma, after all

[/troll]

I have no info on that. But the stubbornness of the EU on the oblast is unexplainably stupid. Together with Germany's resettlement fund program of Ethnic Germans in Kaliningrad, this sounds a bit rotten.

	19-06-2002 02:58									#206
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The Post is having a human interest series on central Asia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...ntralasiadiary/

About a year ago, one of the authors did an interesting and very popular series on Siberia. Basically they travel through the country on a shoestring and give social commentary.

Of course, this is written for a U.S. audience that is not familiar with Central Asia at all. But U.S. audiences are pretty much always interested in economic and civil conditions...

Last edited by DanS on 19-06-2002 at 03:14

	19-06-2002 03:16									#207
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Yeah. "A Handsome Soviet City". I'm beginning to like this newspaper .

	19-06-2002 05:37									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Russia sure has the best selection of lunatics - Victor Alksnis and Anatoly Chehoyev suggested to denounce the returning of Vilnius to Lithuania in 1939 to bully Lithuania into a visa-free regime with Kaliningrad. Makes me wanna beat the living **** out of that 1991 August "putchist" bastard Alksnis, kill him and eat his bones.

So, Saras, would you recognize that Lithuania gained something from being a part of the Soviet Union? And this "something" just happens to be your capital.

Unthankful Lithuanians! We returned them their capital, and yet they only badmouth the poor old Soviet Union.

As for Kaliningrad, Russia should press the EU as tough as necessary. The EU stance on this issue is completely unacceptable.

	19-06-2002 11:39									#209
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond So, Saras, would you recognize that Lithuania gained something from being a part of the Soviet Union? And this "something" just happens to be your capital. Unthankful Lithuanians! We returned them their capital, and yet they only badmouth the poor old Soviet Union. [QUOTE] [QUOTE]As for Kaliningrad, Russia should press the EU as tough as necessary. The EU stance on this issue is completely unacceptable.

The visa regime? Uncacceptable? Chevo eshche? Kakao s chaem?

	19-06-2002 12:18									#210
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"Together with Germany's resettlement fund program of Ethnic Germans in Kaliningrad"

What program is that supposed to be ?

"The EU stance on this issue is completely unacceptable."

Take a ship.