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IS this a cause for celebration? (Time out:0 days after 12-06-2002, 18:36)
YAY! DOWN WITH THE DEATH PENALTY
NO! DOWN WITH HUMAN RIGHTS!!!
BANANA!
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civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:34
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Germany refuses to hand over evidence Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I heard somewhere that Germany has refused to hand over evidence because Mossoui (or however you spell it) faces the death penalty.

I think this is VERY good ! Ashcroft may be a fascist, but he's hopefully not dumb enough to lose something this important for him over something like this and will have the prosecutors drop the death penalty.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:37
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What? Who? Where?

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:39
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It was on NPR yesterday...on the "all things considered" program.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:39
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Moussaoui, is that #20?

Haven't heard about this, but today the American plans for invading the Netherlands made it into German headlines. I'm ready to protect my continent against anything that might come there.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:40 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Very biased stupid poll.

THIS IS VERY BAD. They must hand over the evidence because it could help the investigations.

Civman, your attitude is completely and utterly despicable.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:43
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quote:
Originally posted by civman2000
It was on NPR yesterday...on the "all things considered" program.


NPR? Bear in mind that I live in the backwaters of civilization (ie Sweden...)

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:44 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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I can't wait until we bomb Mars.



Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:44 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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National Public Radio, if I am not mistaken....

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:45
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hey, it's what i heard. I plan on leaving this debat now. I just wanted to bring this up for people to discuss...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:46 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Civman: Maybe you should make a more respectful poll next time. I refuse to vote in such a biased poll.

aaglo is offline aaglo
King
the contradiction is filled with holes...
Aug 2001
time: 07:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:46
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National Pubic Radio... now that's the channel I want to listen to

The germans just don't want to get blood on their hands, and no-one else would either.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:48 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Well Germany, will get a major diplomatic fracas then with the US... major mistake in my opinion.

And really nice to see Germany is hindering the prosecution of a terrorist.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by civman2000
hey, it's what i heard. I plan on leaving this debat now. I just wanted to bring this up for people to discuss...


I´ll leave to since noone can explain to me what **** we´re supposed to discuss...

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 18:57
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German authorities have no other option. It's a constitutional and ECHR issue, and under this pesky little thing called "rule of law"....

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 19:52
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Good for Germany.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:38
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Does anyone have more than just I heard this and down with death penality and blah blah?

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:43
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ks_germany_us_2

quote:
BERLIN (AP) - Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Tuesday that he expected the United States to accept limits on the evidence it can supply against Zacarias Moussaoui, who could face the death penalty for allegedly aiding the Sept. 11 attackers.


German justice authorities have received a request from the United States regarding information in the Moussaoui case, but point out that it is against German law to extradite suspects to countries with the death penalty or supply evidence that could incriminate someone facing execution.

At a news conference Tuesday, Schroeder rejected the idea that this policy undermines his pledge of "unrestricted solidarity" with the United States in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"It's exclusively to do with legal systems which are different," he said, adding he believed that Germany and the United States will soon find a "common position."

Outlawing the death penalty is a requirement for membership in the 15-member European Union ( news - web sites). The Council of Europe, which comprises 40 countries, also forbids the death penalty, even in wartime.

"Effectively combating terror must be in the foreground, but it's well understood in the United States that constitutional norms must be respected," Schroeder said.

According to a report in this week's edition of Der Spiegel weekly, Germany is refusing to hand over evidence proving Moussaoui received money from members of the terror cell believed to have plotted the attacks.

The cell was led by Mohamed Atta, one of the suicide pilots in the airliners that hit the World Trade Center in New York, and based in the northern city of Hamburg.

U.S. law enforcement officials have said Moussaoui received two money transfers from Ramzi Bin al-Shibh, Atta's roommate in Hamburg who wanted to take part in the hijackings, but was unable to secure a visa.

Moussaoui was arrested last summer at a flight school in Minnesota and is the only man currently charged in connection with the attacks. He is being held in custody in pending the opening of his trial.



Looks like the American response was a simple ok. Not exactly the brave earth shattering event that some of you guys had wanted.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:48 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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even the UK had said that he wouldnt give up anything or anybody if he was to face the death penalty

(a minor good point there)


the EU should vote for a common resolution on that matter.

nothing to the yankess unless they dont execute anyone.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Well Germany, will get a major diplomatic fracas then with the US... major mistake in my opinion.

And really nice to see Germany is hindering the prosecution of a terrorist.


suspected terrorist

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:56 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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suspected law offender

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
Warlord
Tryin' hard to chill in the city of Dis
Jul 2000
time: 22:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 21:59
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This particular case has very little to do with the debate over capital punishment. It has much more to do with respecting the law of other nations.

So hats off to Deutschland for upholding their constitution, and a pat on the back to the US for not making a scene of it.

It's quite unfortunate, however, that prosecutors will not have this evidence at their disposal because of this difference of opinion.

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
Warlord

Apr 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 22:08
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This is a terribly worded poll, by the way. I almost voted 'no' in protest at the phrasing.

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
King
NYC
Sep 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 22:35
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The fact that the suspected terrorist faces the DP in the US is none of Germany's business. They should stop sticking their nose into other countries' business instead of witholding evidence of terrorism.

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
Warlord
Tryin' hard to chill in the city of Dis
Jul 2000
time: 22:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 22:39
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Cali: It becomes their business when turning over evidence in some way violates the letter and/or spirit of their laws. The US cannot expect another nation to violate or ammend their legal code for our benefit.

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
King
NYC
Sep 2000
time: 00:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:06
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Well they should change their laws if they want to get serious about fighting terrorism IMO.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:06
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I'm convinced we're right about this. I say this without any intent to maintain or create a flame.

Please respect my position towards my country's attitudes in human rights affairs

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
Warlord

Apr 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Well they should change their laws if they want to get serious about fighting terrorism IMO.
Yes, they should take a lead from the UK and US and start passing Draconian laws!

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Well they should change their laws if they want to get serious about fighting terrorism IMO.


H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 12-06-2002 23:40
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i'm against the death penalty, but that doesn't mean i think germany should deny evidence. They have a duty to the truth, and any facts that may bring it out, one way or another should be presented.

Besides, the prosecutor may ask for the death penalty, but that doesn't mean he'll get it.

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 13-06-2002 01:26
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Our duty to human rights is a tad more important to us than our duty to your truth.

 
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