13-06-2002 00:04									#1
	Which set of revolutionaries do you have the most respect for? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There have been many revolutions in history, some successful, some failed...which of these revolutions do you have the most respect for - as in the people who did them, the goals that they wished to accomplish, the means by which they accomplished their goals, the oppression they had to fight to accomplish their goals, etc.?

	13-06-2002 00:04									#2
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All of 'em.

	13-06-2002 00:06									#3
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None of 'em

	13-06-2002 00:08									#4
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Some of 'em.

	13-06-2002 00:09									#5
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I'm with chegitz.

	13-06-2002 00:11									#6
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Okay, having actually thought about the answer I'll have to say that the Khmer Rouge and Sendero Luminoso are not among those revolutionaries that I respect.

	13-06-2002 00:13									#7
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I think Gandi is definitely one of my top revolutionary-type people.

	13-06-2002 00:15									#8
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I know too many revolutionaries to be able to answer this in a quick way, and I don't feel like doing all the work to give it a fair answer and then defend my answers for the next three days.

	13-06-2002 00:15									#9
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Martin Luther King Jr., Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, Rosa Parks -- these revolutionaries I greatly admire.

The other revolutionaries I admire -- those American abolitionists who also believed that blacks and whites are equal.

	13-06-2002 00:17									#10
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The ones who overthrew a worse government than they created.
Any fit that description?

	13-06-2002 00:19									#11
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Why only the American ones, Mr Fun?

	13-06-2002 00:19									#12
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I like Rage Against The Machine

I think of them every time I see Chegitz Guevara's name.

	13-06-2002 00:26									#13
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Let's see.

First of all, democracy's always a pretty important thing. Democracy might be flawed, but it's the best we've invented so far. And revolutions are, by themselves, undemocratic. At basis of each of them is an armed mob, or at least an armed faction, willing to use those arms to achieve their agenda. Rule by cartridge box instead of ballot box.

So, one of the biggest qualifications for revolution is that it happens in a situation where aims of the supporters of revolution could have been achieved via other means. Revolution as a last resort, in other words. Popular support of the revolution is also important. Of course, even if the government is undemocratic, revolution can lead to something worse - evil pretender trying to dethrone good king, for example - and there are other things that mark a good revolution, such as minimum bloodshed and so on - but revolution as a last resort would be the dividing line.

Thus, among good revolutions, I'd have to count such revolutions as Velvet Revolution - non-violence, except from the part of the oppressor, naturally, counts as a plus - and assorted changes of power related to fall of Soviet Empire. Non-violent, mostly led to more or less democratic governments, and didn't exactly happen to the nicest bunch of people available. French Revolution was justifiable, although it's results werent. And on the other end of scale, we have military coups, especially ones which happened in democratic nations - though whether coup is much of a revolution is a different question.

	13-06-2002 00:27									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Why only the American ones, Mr Fun?

Just because I do not make an entire laundry list of all the revolutionaries and revolutions I admire, does not mean that I only admire American ones.

For instance, I also greatly admire the Haitian Revolution against slavery and French rule in early 19th century.



But the French Revolution in Europe was a failure that ended in a mindless blood-fest orgy.
It unleashed many new ideals though for other European leaders to strive for.
But the French Revolution in of itself, failed.

	13-06-2002 00:45									#15
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Even though the Haitian Revolution resulted in genocide? All the French were killed.

	13-06-2002 00:50									#16
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The Tolpuddle Martyrs.
The Diggers.
The Luddites.

	13-06-2002 01:29									#17
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the Haymarket Martyrs deserve an honorable mention as do the Communards and then you can't go without a good VIVA LA CNT.

On the other side its amazing how much respect Sun Yat Sen is undeservedly held in...

	13-06-2002 01:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies I think Gandi is definitely one of my top revolutionary-type people.

See my sig

	13-06-2002 01:59									#19
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Me...

	13-06-2002 02:02									#20
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John Brown

	13-06-2002 02:19									#21
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I´m with che (as usual...) Besides I´m to darn lazy to actually compile a list...

	13-06-2002 02:35									#22
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Stefu:

wonders if agreeing with Stefu so much is the ONLY reason he is an honorary Finn

	13-06-2002 02:40									#23
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Monteverdi - The only musical revolutioner who mastered the old style better than most of the others.

Oh, you mean political?
OK, then it is what Immortal Wombat said together with that the revolution had to be peaceful (at least from the side of the revolutioners). That's why I have deep respect for the peoples of Eastern Europe. And they mostly don't have "great names".

	13-06-2002 02:44									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I like Rage Against The Machine I think of them every time I see Chegitz Guevara's name.

so do i for some reason

	13-06-2002 02:47									#25
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Imran: in this particular thread stefu's contribution is up and away the best so far. Only nuts would disagree. Not that we aren't supplied with plenty of those here at Poly.

	13-06-2002 02:47									#26
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some of them.

Mussolini was a "revolutionary" too, you know. It's all in the way you look at it. He forcefully took power, and created a new regime that was very different from the previous one. I think this is a revolution.

	13-06-2002 02:49									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun The other revolutionaries I admire -- those American abolitionists who also believed that blacks and whites are equal. .... Just because I do not make an entire laundry list of all the revolutionaries and revolutions I admire, does not mean that I only admire American ones.

Then why bother with the adjective American before saying abolitionists?

That is what the Wombat was refering to, I think.

	13-06-2002 02:55									#28
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The Spanish National Confederation of Labour

	13-06-2002 03:02									#29
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Watt Tyler.

	13-06-2002 03:04									#30
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He was too gullible.