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Should Canada adopt a US-style senate
This poll is closed. |
| Yes |
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20 |
51.28% |
| No |
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19 |
48.72% |
| Total: |
39 voters |
100% |
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:20
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quote:
They only have more of a say in 1/3 of the branches, and in the branch that can only shoot down bills. |
Again, consider US-style compromises.
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And in this case, Ramo, regional minorities tend to be political minorities. Look up Canadian election results, you'll see some distinct trends... |
It's only certain political minorities - the political minorities that form the basis of certain provinces. A Senate won't protect members of the Canadian Communist party, for instance, from laws enacted by the Liberals.
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Because it's impossible to pass such a thing in Canada's current setup?
Again, the Liberals have full and complete control in Canada. They would NOT like anything which means they can't have their way with all provinces. |
Then why do you support a US-style Senate?
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markusf
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Christ Tingkai, just lay off.
I'm at a disadvantage because my home is in Canada. To go ANYWHERE in the US I don't get to use their state-subsidized colleges, I need to go as an out of state student, which costs a HELLUVA LOT MORE.
I would PREFER to go to school in the US, but this is where my home is so this is where I have to go to college to get a decent rate.
And I do have a job, Tingkai.
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What planet do you live on? The entire cost of your education in canada probably wouldn't even cover the cost of renting a place in the states for you to go to school.
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markusf
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's not that big a difference as most people will tell you.
UC Santa Cruz is $4300 US/year for California residents.
It's $10704 US/year for out of state residents.
My University is ~$3250 US/year for provincial residents. It is cheaper, but it's not nearly a big gap as people make it out to be.
Anyway, I'm really going out now. Have fun trolling. |
I am talking about cost of living. What is the cost of you buying food and renting a place for a year so you can go to school?
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The thing I hate are how Canadians are so complacent, because they don't know how much better they could have it.
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You're no better than Canadians who are apathetic. You whine that you don't like the current political system, you call Canada a shithole and your solution is to run away.
If you want to make Canada a better place then you will have to work at it. Whining and running away for get you nowhere.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Bullocks.
If you want to talk about changing the Canadian government, that's great. I'm all in favour of it, but don't expect people to automatically agree with you, particularly when your suggested solution creates more problems then it solves.
And when your solution to the problem is to run south of the border, why should anyone pay attention to you. You obviously don't give a sh!t about Canada. |
It's quite simple really.
I would care about Canada if it was a fair system. It's not, and that's definitely not going to change any time soon because it'd require Ontario and Quebec get off their high horse and realize that even though they make up most of the country, they're not the entire country.
They're going to continue acting like they're in their own little world and do whatever THEY want.
There's no point in even trying to change the system anymore. We've done that now for a long time and NOTHING has come from it. I don't have all my life to spend f*cking around with a nation full of people who don't want change.
So the obvious option is to move south where they have a system I agree with more.
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What's worse is your recent habit of insulting everyone who disagrees with you.
From your second post: "Piss off, you grubby Brit."
From your fourth post: "Whiner go home, you're not even Canadian" and "I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter, jackass."
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He didn't disagree with me, he was threadjacking and not even debating the topic. AND he's not even Canadian. So he didn't have any business doing that.
And the comment to KrazyHorse wasn't from one of his serious opinions, it was after he took a shot at me. Did you miss that part, ace? (You can quote this one, that was intended)
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
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Of course Chretien has strong support. What are the other options. The right wing is split. The NDP are picking a new leader.
Besides, compared to previous PMs, Chretien isn't doing much wrong. He hasn't done a lot of good either.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
That way it preserves the "one man one vote" ideology that KrazyHorse is in bed with. |
Ya go figure. Why is Krazyhouse so adament about this thing called democracy.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Ya go figure. Why is Krazyhouse so adament about this thing called democracy. |
While it is technically a democracy, it's still strictly rule of the majority.
If that's what you consider a true democracy, you're not technically wrong but I disagree with that philosophically.
But whatever, trample on the little people. There's not too many of them so they don't matter, at all...
It's pretty damn easy for people living in provinces that are on the receiving end of Ottawa's generosity continually to not see a problem with it, while others who are consistently on the end ignored by Ottawa see problems with it.
Voters in Alberta have been effectively marginalized by this setup, to the point where the Liberals don't even campaign here. Our interests, our needs, and our desires are simply not important. We're a minority. All Ottawa focuses on now is the majority. Good for you, bad for the country as a whole.
Someday you'll see that.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
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Asher: You don't really care about minority opinion and the "little guy." You just want to rigged the system so that Alberta controls Canada and the right-wing can gain power through the back door. The funny thing is there is no guarantee that an elected senate would protect the interests of right-wing voters like yourself.
You complain about how the Albertans don't have a voice, but as I have told you many times before, the fault lies with the Albertans. The right wing is divided and fighting among itself. As long as it does, it won't get elected. When the right wing is united, they stand a good chance of being the governing power. That's what happened in the 80s.
No matter how much you whine, Canadians living in Alberta are not oppressed. Alberta is not being screwed. No one is stomping on people in Alberta.
What's really happening here is you're frustrated because you're a conservative and for most of your life the Liberals have controlled Ottawa. You've never really known a conservative federal govenrment. But if you want someone to blame for that, it is the conservative politicians who prefer to fight among themselves rather than working together to become a government.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
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You know what? It'd be great if you could stick with the arguments presented here instead of constructing your strawmen. Just once.
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher: You don't really care about minority opinion and the "little guy." You just want to rigged the system so that Alberta controls Canada and the right-wing can gain power through the back door. The funny thing is there is no guarantee that an elected senate would protect the interests of right-wing voters like yourself. |
I could say the same for you saying you don't really care about the concept of a democracy, you just want it rigged so that the majority and ONLY the majority have any say in how this country works.
And again, I've never said it would give the right wingers absolute power or even more power -- all I've said is it could prevent the Liberals from having absolute control over every branch of the government, seeing as NDP, CA, whathaveyou may outnumber Liberal seats in the Senate.
Why you think it's funny that there's no guarantee of protection of right wing interests is beyond me, since no one here has said any such thing.
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You complain about how the Albertans don't have a voice, but as I have told you many times before, the fault lies with the Albertans. The right wing is divided and fighting among itself. As long as it does, it won't get elected. When the right wing is united, they stand a good chance of being the governing power. That's what happened in the 80s. |
Again, you still don't understand my argument. Please read this carefully and thoroughly so we can stop it with this sidebar ****.
The majority governments in Canada have too much power. Whether that majority government is a PC party, a CA party, or a Liberal party -- I don't care. They're basically given full and complete control of the entire country the second they're in office. I think that's outrageous, it's too much power in too few hands. A true democracy shouldn't work like that, IMHO.
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No matter how much you whine, Canadians living in Alberta are not oppressed. Alberta is not being screwed. No one is stomping on people in Alberta. |
Right now, no.
But historically it has happened.
And there's simply no excuse for Chretien's use of Alberta in the recent federal election, with the running of ads showing the destruction of the General Hospital saying the CA wants to privatize healthcare. It's wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. And the thing is, the Liberals can get away with that ****. Why? Because they ARE the government. There's NO ONE above them and no one to stop them.
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What's really happening here is you're frustrated because you're a conservative and for most of your life the Liberals have controlled Ottawa. You've never really known a conservative federal govenrment. |
I remind you I have spent a good chunk of my life in the US, which by Canadian standards has always been a conservative government...
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But if you want someone to blame for that, it is the conservative politicians who prefer to fight among themselves rather than working together to become a government. |
Again, my beef is that majority governments have too much power. I don't care for how they obtained that power, my point is with the Canadian system whoever gets the most seats (even by a slim margin) in parliament, they have full, complete, and unchecked control over the entire nation -- even when only 40% of Canadians want them in office.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
But if moved to the U.S., he would indeed get what he wants, as the opposite is true here. The liberals are divided while a corrupt conservative oligarchy runs things. Yeah, it's great here, woohoo. |
What the hell are you talking about, Boris?
The US government is far less corrupt than the Canadian one. Just look around at Canadian news archives. You'll find fascinating stories about Chretien buying votes in Quebec, "accidental" transfers of billions of dollars into Quebec and BC, the complete and utter "loss" of $1B, the transfer of billions of public dollars into private accounts, the new advertisement scandal, the PM using his leverage to get things done for people in his riding (ie: calling up a bank manager), Chretien firing his most competent and well liked finance minister since the guy was going to run against Chretien in the next leadership race, etc.
You don't know much about Canadian politics, Boris, so just butt out. All governments suck, the idea is to find one that sucks less. You don't know how good you've got it. 
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17-06-2002 10:04
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