 |
Should Canada adopt a US-style senate
This poll is closed. |
| Yes |
   |
20 |
51.28% |
| No |
   |
19 |
48.72% |
| Total: |
39 voters |
100% |
|
| |
|
|
Asher
|
 |
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I know you get your jollies off being a rude imp to people, but it doesn't do much to make folks amenable to your position. |
You should download Denis Leary's "I'm an *******". It's an awesome song.
quote:
Maybe one of the reasons more Canadians don't support the Albertan right is that they are composed of people who share your dazzling social skills. |
Nah, I'm not like most Albertans. notyoueither is a better example. I'm a disgruntled "extremist" with a temper, there's a difference.
quote:
I will contend that there is no way the Canadian government is more corrupt than the United States Government, especially since much of the heart of U.S. corruption lies in the hallowed halls of the powerful Senate, which you don't have. Such stories of corruption are also commonplace here in the U.S. The difference is that Canada is corrupt towards the left, the U.S. towards the right. So choose your poison. |
By what stretch of the imagination do you think that having a regional-based Senate somehow encourages corruption instead of a first past the post system?  Perhaps you should stick to Opera Singing, da?
quote:
And frankly, the obnoxious little "Oooh I've lived in both countries so I know what's best!" argument is meaningless and only makes you look more like a condescending snot. |
Well, it's a far better position to be in than you. You've clearly demonstrated little to no knowledge of how Canada works, yet you've made contentions like there's no way Canada is more corrupt than the US, and a US style senate is a bad choice, etc.
You're talking out of your ass since you don't know any of the fundamental facts to even begin a debate. Which is why I've asked you to go away, it's just disrupting.
quote:
If you didn't want anyone but Canadians posting, you should have said so in the thread title or in your first post. |
I don't mind non-Canadians posting in here, assuming they know something about how the systems work (which several Americans who have posted here have demonstrated). You do not.
quote:
So suck eggs.  |
After you've had them up your ass? I'll pass.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
By what stretch of the imagination do you think that having a regional-based Senate somehow encourages corruption instead of a first past the post system? Perhaps you should stick to Opera Singing, da?
|
When did I ever assert this? Sure as heck didn't.
Perhaps the forms of corruption are different, but the regional-based Senate is rife with corruption. Just look at the campaign finance debate here. You can buy a Senate seat for $30 million, as John Corzine proved in NJ. Look at the massive amount of pork that comes out of DC in every bill for every Senator's constituencies, excluding the ones who need the most aid from the government--the urban and rural poor.
quote:
Well, it's a far better position to be in than you. |
Since when was equality of position necessary for debate? You elitist, you.
quote:
You've clearly demonstrated little to no knowledge of how Canada works, yet you've made contentions like there's no way Canada is more corrupt than the US, and a US style senate is a bad choice, etc. |
I explicitly stated in an earlier post I know jack squat about Canada's system, other than it appears to be parliamentary, and I assume it runs on a standard parliamentary structure. Nonetheless, nothing I've said has relied on such a knowledge. I'm merely pointing out what I do know, and that is that the U.S. Senate is certainly a haven of corruption, and I believe it to be as much so, if not more, as the Canadian government by the sheer volume of material and money that passes through the US Chamber as opposed to Canada's.
quote:
You're talking out of your ass since you don't know any of the fundamental facts to even begin a debate. Which is why I've asked you to go away, it's just disrupting. |
No, you've asked me to go away because you don't like my position and you don't want to face the fact that the Senate isn't an optimal way to go, either, it's just a new way to be corrupt. Maybe you'll like it because it will be corrupt more in your favor, but as I've said, I hope a better system could be devised.
quote:
After you've had them up your ass? I'll pass. |
So young and so b*tchy...claws in you, cat!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
While it is technically a democracy, it's still strictly rule of the majority.
If that's what you consider a true democracy, you're not technically wrong but I disagree with that philosophically.
But whatever, trample on the little people. There's not too many of them so they don't matter, at all...
It's pretty damn easy for people living in provinces that are on the receiving end of Ottawa's generosity continually to not see a problem with it, while others who are consistently on the end ignored by Ottawa see problems with it.
Voters in Alberta have been effectively marginalized by this setup, to the point where the Liberals don't even campaign here. Our interests, our needs, and our desires are simply not important. We're a minority. All Ottawa focuses on now is the majority. Good for you, bad for the country as a whole.
Someday you'll see that. |
reason why geographical minorities need protections also.
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
By what stretch of the imagination do you think that having a regional-based Senate somehow encourages corruption instead of a first past the post system? |
Simple, in the American system one party tends to control the senate when another party controls the house. The only way to get things done is to "buy" votes. I'll support your bill if you support my bill. As a result, you get crazy legislation like the massive subsidies to farms. The majority of Americans are against these subsidies, but politicians from farm areas threaten to block other legislation if they don't get the subsidies. The same thing happens with dozens of other issues.
It could be argued that the American system creates too much power for the minority.
Your claim that the Liberals have complete power is false. They do not have full and unchecked power. Parliament's power is limited and checked by the Supreme Court of Canada. The 1982 Constitution gave the judicial arm extensive powers to control parliament.
You also seem to think that the majority is some type of homogeneous group. It is not. There are extensive divisions among people who voted for the Liberals and there are divisions within the Liberal Party, just as with any party.
Yoru example of election ads is ridiculous. Those types of ads appear in any type of elections. Just look at the ads that have been used in the States.
A true democracy is when decisions are made by representatives elected by the most votes.
What you are proposing will simply create barriers that prevent the will of the people from being exercised.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
When did I ever assert this? Sure as heck didn't.
Perhaps the forms of corruption are different, but the regional-based Senate is rife with corruption. Just look at the campaign finance debate here. You can buy a Senate seat for $30 million, as John Corzine proved in NJ. Look at the massive amount of pork that comes out of DC in every bill for every Senator's constituencies, excluding the ones who need the most aid from the government--the urban and rural poor. |
Boris, a regional based senate is not any more prone to corruption than the first past the post system.
I know corruption exists in all governments (69% of Canadians surveyed believe the Liberals are corrupt in power as of 2 months ago).
Switching to a regional senate won't encourage more corruption, so why don't you just drop that silly argument and be done with it? If that's not what you're arguing, why are you off ranting about US Senate corruption? 
quote:
Since when was equality of position necessary for debate? You elitist, you. |
I would love to see a debate between a first grade student and a professor of economics about, say, economics. Equality isn't necessary, right?
quote:
I explicitly stated in an earlier post I know jack squat about Canada's system |
Yet you feel the need to give input in how Canada's government should be run? If you're not doing that, you're threadjacking -- go away.
quote:
No, you've asked me to go away because you don't like my position and you don't want to face the fact that the Senate isn't an optimal way to go, either, it's just a new way to be corrupt. Maybe you'll like it because it will be corrupt more in your favor, but as I've said, I hope a better system could be devised. |
Your position is nonexistant, you're upset the US Senate is corrupt. ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE CORRUPT. Making the Canadian Senate regional will not increase corruption -- just GO AWAY DAMNIT. You're not even DEBATING THE TOPIC. Do you even know the topic?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Simple, in the American system one party tends to control the senate when another party controls the house. The only way to get things done is to "buy" votes. I'll support your bill if you support my bill. As a result, you get crazy legislation like the massive subsidies to farms. The majority of Americans are against these subsidies, but politicians from farm areas threaten to block other legislation if they don't get the subsidies. The same thing happens with dozens of other issues. |
This is complete bull, because I could write the same trite stuff but say that in order for the corporations to get their way they'd need to buy the votes of the left wing Liberal MPs under the current system. 
Very nice try though. A for effort.
quote:
Your claim that the Liberals have complete power is false. They do not have full and unchecked power. Parliament's power is limited and checked by the Supreme Court of Canada. The 1982 Constitution gave the judicial arm extensive powers to control parliament. |
The Liberals have shown a complete lack of respect for previous agreements with provinces, what's stopping them from doing it again? Who would stop them from ammending the constitution, even if they do it illegally?
quote:
You also seem to think that the majority is some type of homogeneous group. It is not. There are extensive divisions among people who voted for the Liberals and there are divisions within the Liberal Party, just as with any party. |
Not when King Jean tells you which way to vote. Failure to do so results in demotion in the party, which is pretty much political suicide.
quote:
Yoru example of election ads is ridiculous. Those types of ads appear in any type of elections. Just look at the ads that have been used in the States. |
Why hasn't the CRTC banned the use of such horribly blatant lies in advertisement? Should it not be illegal to spread blatant lies about the people running against you? Do you honestly think the Liberal government wouldn't use their power over the CRTC & Co to get the CA's ads pulled if they did the same thing?
quote:
A true democracy is when decisions are made by representatives elected by the most votes. |
A true democracy is where everyone votes on every matter. 
quote:
What you are proposing will simply create barriers that prevent the will of the people from being exercised. |
The Will of the people?
Please.
Was it the will of the people to put a $1.50 tax to go straight to the record companies on CD-Rs?
Or how about the $20/GB tax on digital audio players, also go to the record company?
Woo, the people love that. Go Liberals!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
Asher, these temper tantrums are really unbecoming of you. You'll get wrinkles really fast.
Yes, I know the topic. You're asserting the Senate will make things better. I do not believe they will.
quote:
Switching to a regional senate won't encourage more corruption, so why don't you just drop that silly argument |
So what if it won't encourage more? I don't believe it will encourage less, and you seem comfortable with that possibly being the case. If there is no change in corruption, why bother changing it? Wouldn't you rather find a better answer than breaking even on corruption?
(I bet way more than 69% of Americans think their government is corrupt, btw)
Yes, I know the Topic. It's should Canada adopt a U.S.-Style Senate. And I'm saying no, because I know the U.S.-style Senate and think it's a crock of horseshit. If you want a non-U.S. Style Senate, then that's different. But which is it you want?
And if you don't think I'm contributing, then just don't respond to me. That's far better than wasting your time and energy posting insulting, bitter threads that jack up your blood pressure and shave valuable moments off your life. Maybe you'll grow up someday and see that arguing with people doesn't necessitate becoming an angry, childish b!tch. In fact, that just makes your position look worse. Notice how you've chased away all the other pro-Senate posters with your behavior, as they likely don't want to be associated with it.
Chill out, relax, cut the caffeine. No wonder conservatives drop dead of strokes at 50 all the time.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
This is complete bull... |
You can call it bull, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The Liberals have shown a complete lack of respect for previous agreements with provinces, what's stopping them from doing it again? Who would stop them from ammending the constitution, even if they do it illegally?
|
Ever hear about a thing called rule of law? The courts have overturned unconstitutional laws on numerous occassions.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Not when King Jean tells you which way to vote. Failure to do so results in demotion in the party, which is pretty much political suicide.
|
This clearly indicates you have no idea about how leadership works. JC ability to stay in power is directly connected with his ability to bring together different viewpoints within the party. He is not a dictator.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Why hasn't the CRTC banned the use of such horribly blatant lies in advertisement? Should it not be illegal to spread blatant lies about the people running against you? Do you honestly think the Liberal government wouldn't use their power over the CRTC & Co to get the CA's ads pulled if they did the same thing?
|
It's called freedom of speech. If the Liberals are telling lies like you claim then it is up to the opposition to show that these are lies.
No Canadian political party would ever use the CRTC to silence another political party. Any attempt would be immediately blocked by the Supreme Court and any party that tried to do so would be kicked out of office.
When the Alberta Socreds tried to limit freedom of the press, they were blocked by the Supreme Court. Of course, the Albertans *****ed about how this was an example of the goddamn Easterners interfering in provincial rights.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Was it the will of the people to put a $1.50 tax to go straight to the record companies on CD-Rs?
Or how about the $20/GB tax on digital audio players, also go to the record company?
|
If they don't like it, they'll vote them out of power. Of course, that's assuming that there was alternative. Right now the Liberals suck, but alternative is even worse. That will change if the NDP can find an effective leader.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Yes, I know the topic. You're asserting the Senate will make things better. I do not believe they will. |
How would you know one way or another, you've said yourself you don't have a clue what Canada's like?
quote:
So what if it won't encourage more? I don't believe it will encourage less, and you seem comfortable with that possibly being the case. If there is no change in corruption, why bother changing it? Wouldn't you rather find a better answer than breaking even on corruption? |
The problem isn't with corruption, it's with having safeguards to prevent the tyranny of the majority. Tingkai and KrazyHorse think a democracy is strictly about having what the majority want happen. Which even then isn't even true, that's why we have a Bill of Rights type thing.
quote:
Yes, I know the Topic. It's should Canada adopt a U.S.-Style Senate. And I'm saying no, because I know the U.S.-style Senate and think it's a crock of horseshit. If you want a non-U.S. Style Senate, then that's different. But which is it you want? |
You're saying no, and you openly admit to not knowing anything about Canada or what Canada needs. All you know is the US Senate is corrupt (go figure) and therefore no one needs it. Do you know how really dumb that is? Really?
quote:
In fact, that just makes your position look worse. Notice how you've chased away all the other pro-Senate posters with your behavior, as they likely don't want to be associated with it. |
The position isn't viable for Canada anyway, most Canadians would never buy it. I'm not going to change the world by posting on Apolyton, that's not how the world works. I do this to blow off steam since we don't even get anyone listening to us when we do it IRL. Chretien would mumbles something and the Liberals would boo and the day would end.
quote:
Chill out, relax, cut the caffeine. No wonder conservatives drop dead of strokes at 50 all the time. |
Just get out of the thread. My thread, my rules.
Perhaps you can come back after you do your research.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
You can call it bull, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens. |
It happens under all systems, it's bull that you're implying it happens more under a regional Senate.
quote:
Ever hear about a thing called rule of law? The courts have overturned unconstitutional laws on numerous occassions. |
Yeah, kinda like a bunch of the stuff that came with the NEP. It took a long time, but they got their taxgrab's worth after the Supreme Court struck down the Liberal's greedy little hands. The damage had already been done, though.
quote:
This clearly indicates you have no idea about how leadership works. JC ability to stay in power is directly connected with his ability to bring together different viewpoints within the party. He is not a dictator. |
OHHHHHHHHHH.
I see. See, the thing is, I see stuff all the time saying otherwise. People fear him in the party, because he determines if they're a cabinet minister or a backbencher. It's that simple. If they're a backbencher they can never become PM -- no one knows about them. And once they do become a cabinet minister and become too popular, Chretien FIRES them and demotes them back down to backbencher.
He's not a dictator, he's just an ******* who loves the spotlight and complete control.
quote:
It's called freedom of speech. If the Liberals are telling lies like you claim then it is up to the opposition to show that these are lies. |
The US has laws against false advertising -- we don't?
quote:
No Canadian political party would ever use the CRTC to silence another political party. Any attempt would be immediately blocked by the Supreme Court and any party that tried to do so would be kicked out of office. |
The CRTC should pull any ads that are false advertising. At least that's how it works for commercial companies, so why are Federal Government commercials exempt? Does it have anything to do with the Federal Government controlling the CRTC?
quote:
If they don't like it, they'll vote them out of power. |
No, they won't. They'll vote them constantly in power. Canada is full of sheep. 69% believe the government is corrupt yet they don't want to reform it or elect a new government. What does that tell you about the attitudes of Canadians?
Canadians will live with it and just order the CDs from the states, like I do. It doesn't change the fact that they're NOT doing it in the interest of the people, in fact the recording industry has bribed them into passing such a law (include your stupid rant about corruption here).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sorry, King Asher, but you don't get dictatorial control over who posts in your threads and who doesn't. |
I can call for it to be closed, why can't I ask people to leave?
quote:
You seem to be forgetting that this is a wonderful opportunity to educate the unenlightened masses such as I about how Canada works and perhaps get people to support your position. Why not do that instead of telling people to go "do the research?" You're pretending your posts here are a lot more intelligent and in-depth than they really are. Your hermiting is really hampering your ability to conduct productive debates and just turning you into an obnoxious boor. |
Because I'd rather not delve into the boring nature of Canada. The simple thing is for you to just not post in here if you don't know anything about the country in question. If you want to find out more, you're on the internet, there are thousands of websites on the matter.
quote:
If Canada is need of government reform, that's fine, but I'd advocate looking elsewhere than the Senate to achieve the protection of "minority rights" (although you clearly only want to protect a certain minorty's rights, that of Alberta). |
Another example are Saskatchewan and Manitoba who are getting the cold shoulder from Ottawa when it comes to helping the farmers, simply because they're smaller provinces. The second the Ontario Auto Industry is in trouble, though, the Federal Government swoops in and saves the day.
quote:
And what about the minority of Alberta? Who protects those in Alberta who like and support what is going on in Ottawa and aren't the right-wing nutjobs? Does Alberta have a governing system that insures minority rights within its framework? If not, advocating such a thing on a national scale seems rather hypocritical. |
What the hell, Boris? You're confusing provincial and federal governments.
There are essentially three regions in Alberta: Calgary, Edmonton, and Rural. All three are overwhelmingly rightwing (Edmonton has the odd Liberal but it's still mostly right wing).
There are tiny minorities in all regions that can never have their way (neo-fascists, communists, etc) because they're so tiny and their views so extreme.
The "minority" in this case represents about 35% of Canada's popular vote, while the current majority Liberal government received only 40%. There's actually not that much difference between them. But right now, it's ENTIRELY what those 40% of the people wanted, and the 35% who wanted otherwise can be totally ignored. Do you think that's right, Boris?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
markusf
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sorry, King Asher, but you don't get dictatorial control over who posts in your threads and who doesn't.
|
LOL he only hears what he wants to hear. When you show him how absorb his arguements are he just gettings annoyed and calls you a DL
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I can call for it to be closed, why can't I ask people to leave? |
Because then any whiney thread-starter could just start booting people off of a thread who disagreed with his opinions. That would make the boards quite unenjoyable for everyone. In the real world, you have to learn to deal with people who disagree in a civil manner. That's a valuable skill you should practice.
quote:
Because I'd rather not delve into the boring nature of Canada. |
Wooo, thank you, but isn't that what the entire thread is about?
quote:
The simple thing is for you to just not post in here if you don't know anything about the country in question. If you want to find out more, you're on the internet, there are thousands of websites on the matter. |
No, the simple thing is for you to just not respond to posts you don't deem worthy of your superior knowledge and all that rubbish.
quote:
Another example are Saskatchewan and Manitoba who are getting the cold shoulder from Ottawa when it comes to helping the farmers, simply because they're smaller provinces. The second the Ontario Auto Industry is in trouble, though, the Federal Government swoops in and saves the day. |
Same thing happens in the U.S. Senate. The farmers and factory workers get massive aid bills to keep industries afloat that are doomed to die, but inner cities where federal support could lead to massive revitalization are pretty much left to their own devices.
quote:
What the hell, Boris? You're confusing provincial and federal governments. |
What the hell is the difference when one is talking the rights of the minority? Shouldn't the rights of a provincial minority also be protected against the provincial majority? What the hell is so special about a province that it gets to trample on a minority, but the federal government isn't? What do you think these are, U.S. States?
quote:
There are essentially three regions in Alberta: Calgary, Edmonton, and Rural. All three are overwhelmingly rightwing (Edmonton has the odd Liberal but it's still mostly right wing).
There are tiny minorities in all regions that can never have their way (neo-fascists, communists, etc) because they're so tiny and their views so extreme. |
I find it really hard to believe that within the borders of Alberta there exist only the right-wingers and then the extreme leftists. There's no center-left and center-right? Come on...this is where numbers help.
Are you saying that in Alberta, provincial elections have the result of a huge, 90% win for the right-winger, and then all that's left are commies and such?
And is Albertan provincial government structured in such a way that the ruling party makes all the rules and there's no check against their power other than the rule of law, which you don't seem to trust?
How small must the minority be for it to be safely ignored?
quote:
The "minority" in this case represents about 35% of Canada's popular vote, while the current majority Liberal government received only 40%. There's actually not that much difference between them. But right now, it's ENTIRELY what those 40% of the people wanted, and the 35% who wanted otherwise can be totally ignored. Do you think that's right, Boris? |
So I guess it comes down to whether or not you want a ruling system whereby there is no accountability (U.S.) or where it is pretty much absolute (Canada). I prefer accountability over "minority rights" in this instance, I suppose. That's because there is no accountability here, and the assertion of regional minority rights has caused more problems, IMO, than it has solved. It has been from the U.S. States who most benefit from regional minority rights where the U.S.'s most hateful, liberty-restricting and intolerant legislation has arisen. They are the engine of stagnation here.
If you want that, take it. Please. We can trade.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
markusf
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I call you a DL because your viewpoints and grammar are identical to blackice.
And I hear everything said here, it's just a simple matter that it's the same recycled trash that I've heard for 18 years from Central Canada, so it's nothing new to me. |
Your an idiot. Maybe ming can post end this and say that i am not a DL LOL
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Because then any whiney thread-starter could just start booting people off of a thread who disagreed with his opinions. That would make the boards quite unenjoyable for everyone. In the real world, you have to learn to deal with people who disagree in a civil manner. That's a valuable skill you should practice. |
Civilty is overrated and useless online.
And no, Boris, I don't want you to leave because you don't agree with me, I want you to leave because you admit to not knowing anything about the country in question but you still want to keep talking about it. It'd be like me going into an Opera thread and constantly talking about rock music and refusing to leave.
quote:
Wooo, thank you, but isn't that what the entire thread is about? |
This thread is about reforming Canada's senate to suit Canada's need, not a history of Canada.
quote:
No, the simple thing is for you to just not respond to posts you don't deem worthy of your superior knowledge and all that rubbish. |
I feel a need to respond to misinformation, what can I say? Just stop posting it.
quote:
Same thing happens in the U.S. Senate. The farmers and factory workers get massive aid bills to keep industries afloat that are doomed to die, but inner cities where federal support could lead to massive revitalization are pretty much left to their own devices. |
Not quite, Boris, you've also got a population-based House as well as a President who is elected by the population who can veto it.
quote:
What the hell is the difference when one is talking the rights of the minority? |
Because we're talking about the Federal government vs. the Provincial government. Could you even give me an example where the provincial government can ignore the needs of a minority and still get elected?
quote:
Shouldn't the rights of a provincial minority also be protected against the provincial majority? What the hell is so special about a province that it gets to trample on a minority, but the federal government isn't? What do you think these are, U.S. States? |
Again, Boris, this doesn't actually apply here. In Alberta we don't need such a system, since the overwhelming majority are right wing anyway. In Quebec, with english and french speaking citizens, they may opt for something similar to a regional senate. I don't know much about Quebec so I'm not going to go into that though.
quote:
I find it really hard to believe that within the borders of Alberta there exist only the right-wingers and then the extreme leftists. There's no center-left and center-right? Come on...this is where numbers help. |
Actually, you'll find that by US standards Alberta is centrist. Most people here are centrist. It's Canada that's left wing.
Yes, there are center-lefts and other left wingers, but the vast vast majority of people are right or center-right. Dig up election results on google if you want.
quote:
Are you saying that in Alberta, provincial elections have the result of a huge, 90% win for the right-winger, and then all that's left are commies and such? |
No, Boris, use your brain a bit and think on that.
quote:
And is Albertan provincial government structured in such a way that the ruling party makes all the rules and there's no check against their power other than the rule of law, which you don't seem to trust? |
The Federal government acts as a check of power on the Alberta government. That's why they're always on our case about what we're doing with health care.
quote:
How small must the minority be for it to be safely ignored? |
Don't play the hard numbers game. I'm using relative numbers: 40% have complete control in Canada, 35% have zero control. That's not fair. We don't need to set definitive numbers for which groups need representation or not.
quote:
So I guess it comes down to whether or not you want a ruling system whereby there is no accountability (U.S.) or where it is pretty much absolute (Canada). |
If there's no accountability, how did Watergate happen?
quote:
I prefer accountability over "minority rights" in this instance, I suppose. |
What makes you think the Liberals are accountable? They've done so many stupid and illegal things over their history and nothing has come from it, at all. No one holds them accountable.
quote:
If you want that, take it. Please. We can trade. |
What a really stupid thing to say, since you openly confess to knowing nothing about Canada's system yet you're willing to swap?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
markusf
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by RedFred
I agree with your first point Boris, but I disagree on the point that each state has more autonomy than each province. |
Lol we got more trade barriers between provinices then we do with US.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tingkai
|
|
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:20
|
|
You're the one claiming they're getting the cold shoulder from Ottawa and yet Ottawa is putting together a welfare package for farmers.
If you knew anything about agriculture, you would know that the federal government used to hand out money to farmers left right and centre.
The Liberals have reduced this stupidity recognizing that it doesn't make sense to prop up farms that have being losing money for years.
What Ottawa is doing now with the latest hand outs is crazy. It's just going to excalate a subsidy war and the only winners will be farmers, particularly farm corporations, who can sit back and do nothing while the tax dollars roll in.
The auto industry, on the other hand, routinely makes a profit.
By the way, when was the last time Ottawa had to bail out the auto industry?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Asher
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:20
|
|
Look how happy Saskatchewan is with the "welfare" package, Tingkai!
http://www2.alberta.com/news/agricu...d=CP&id=1129398
quote:
REGINA (CP) - Saskatchewan Agriculture Minister Clay Serby accused the federal government of playing "divide and conquer" with an upcoming farm aid package that he says will require provincial governments to contribute 40 per cent.
"It's very unfair where you have the people who are most injured by the trade injury having to pay," Serby said Tuesday. "If this is what we get at the end of the day, this is a national government doing an effective job of segregating the west and the east and picking winners and losers, and at the end of the day Saskatchewan and Western Canada will be a loser."
Western provinces are seeking $1.3 billion in federal money to offset the effects of a United States farm bill.
Serby says it now appears the aid package, expected to be announced later this week, will total about $800 million and be cost-shared with the provinces 60-40.
"When you take a look at what Saskatchewan's future is and Western Canada's future, it is in agriculture, and we are sick and tired in Western Canada of picking up the ticket," he said. |
Why hasn't Canada been pressuring the US about farm subsidies?
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
18-06-2002 08:32
|