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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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quote:
Let me remind you of several incidents
1. A bomb is put next to school. Explodes 10 minutes before it the end of school, luckily.
2. A small bomb in a milk carton placed near a kindergarten (iirc)
3. Two israeli teens are murdered while taking a walk in the territories.
4. Several teens in a school in the territories, playing basketball are all gunned down.
5. Teen is lured over the internet to meet with a palestinian woman and then slaughtered
6. Suicide bomb at a disco for young (below 18) teens.
7. Suicide bomber approaches a bus stop in which only children are standing. Begins talking to them, gathering them around, explodes.
8. Suicide bombers which get on buses around 7, when children go to school, and over 50% of people on the bus are children.
9. Terrorist enters civilian house, guns down mother. guns down naked little girl which walks out of bathroom.
10. Terrorist enters school, guns down children in dorms.
11. Terrorist enters civilian house, shoots everyone in thier beds, including children.
I'm sure there have been lots of incidents I forgot.
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Do you have sources for 1, 7 and 10?
2: Near? And source, please.
3 &4: Can you tell a teen from an adult on shooting distance?
5: That one is weird and twisted... Not defending that one.
6: First of: no one there was under 18? Second: Do you expect the Hamas to know the difference between a disco for 16-18 and 18-20?
8, 9 & 11: Seems pretty clear that the purpose was not to kill chlidren, just israelis in general. Again, Sharon carries the guilt for the death of these children.
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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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quote:
1. I doubt that even a third of what I post here is intelligence.
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So you could cut your posts with a third...
quote:
3. If an Israeli newspaper quotes a palestinian civilian or politician, you should trust it, unless you have an example of Israeli newspapers forging evidence.
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Ahh, yes, trustworthy as an israeli politician. There are roughly six billion people on this earth I'd trust more...
But you know what? If you give the name of a palestinian as a source, I might take it at face value. AFAIK, not a single post you have made does that...
quote:
4. You claims about not being able to substatiate said quotes applies equally to NYT and so on. And I do no accept the claim that NYT is "well known" etc, since just a month ago I read about a journalist in some major american newspaper (NYT or WT or WP) fabricating articles out of his arse. I see no difference between the liability of NYT and Haaretz or Jerusalem Post.
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Well, one minor difference: the NYT employs journalists who check things before they print them.
quote:
However, you are now minimizing your claims.
You have also claimed that Israeli newspapers bring quotes from arab speaking newspapers, which are obviously false, or misrepresented.
You must have an actual example of false quotes if you think so, or else, your opinion is unfounded and therefore I regard it as false.
Infact, I have also recently provided you with an Arabic -> English translator, which you could use to translate arabic newpapers and prove once and for all, that Israeli newspapers have a habbit of lying.
You can not automatically assume that the Israeli media is untrustworthy, just because you think so. You have to have some basis for it.
Other wise, you are infact inventing those claims, based on your prejudices.
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Sigh. As if I had time to do that... I trust the NYT. I have no reason to do otherwise. When it was revealed that they jumped the gun on the alleged chinese spy in Los alamos, they dutifully printed apologies and rectifications.
I did follow jewsih media for one week, checking out the stories.
The vast majority had no sources whatsoever, apart from 'IDF sources' or 'Israeli radio'. This is no better than hearsay.
A few stories were true, as they appeared in western media as well.
And a few had sources, that upon further checking appeared to be untrue. The 'die welt' fabrications were the worst oif that batch, as it consisted of a plain face lie as a headline story...
So it is back in your court. If you want to prove anything, quote a real source.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberGnu
So you could cut your posts with a third... |
You could ignore those parts, or ignore my threads and post completely.
quote:
Ahh, yes, trustworthy as an israeli politician. There are roughly six billion people on this earth I'd trust more... |
I don't care who you trust.
Unless you have actual reasons not to trust Israeli media, such as an example of lies, then you are judging according to prejudice.
quote:
But you know what? If you give the name of a palestinian as a source, I might take it at face value. AFAIK, not a single post you have made does that... |
Because I don't bother quoting the names, but usually bring a short review.
I'm not Haaretz.
quote:
Well, one minor difference: the NYT employs journalists who check things before they print them. |
I just told you about a journalist in a major american nespaper the name of which I forgot, who wrote articles out of his ass, and that's your reply?
If you are very very interested I could try and find that report again.
quote:
Sigh. As if I had time to do that... I trust the NYT. I have no reason to do otherwise. When it was revealed that they jumped the gun on the alleged chinese spy in Los alamos, they dutifully printed apologies and rectifications. |
What reason do you have to not trust the Israeli newspapers?
That's exactly what I'm asking.
quote:
I did follow jewsih media for one week, checking out the stories.
The vast majority had no sources whatsoever, apart from 'IDF sources' or 'Israeli radio'. This is no better than hearsay. |
IDF sources = US military sources.
Do you automatically disregard any NYT article about the war on terrorism, just because they quote US military and political sources?
quote:
A few stories were true, as they appeared in western media as well. |
correction - you should have said:
"A few stories I could verify myself, as they appeared in western media as well".
quote:
And a few had sources, that upon further checking appeared to be untrue. The 'die welt' fabrications were the worst oif that batch, as it consisted of a plain face lie as a headline story... |
Please repeat that for me.
As far as I can remember, you read a report in JP about an article in "die welt" which you later couldn't find.
As you yourself said - just because you don't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You could simply not notice it, and it is frequent that online versions of newspapers are not the same as the printed ones, or aren't free.
If you are going to claim that Israeli newspapers are not credible you need to find a based source for it, such as a report claiming otherwise.
For instance, if you find a report saying : "There are no palestinian school books which are anti-israeli" it would prove that the Israeli media is lying.
Furthermore, just because you think you can't trust JP, doesn't mean it's the same for the rest of the newspapers.
You yourself said there is a difference between NYT and the Sun. If you consider JP to be untrustworthy, read Haaretz or something.
quote:
So it is back in your court. If you want to prove anything, quote a real source. |
Not at all.
You still haven't given a viable example of an Israeli media lie which was done knowingly.
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28-06-2002 12:36
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