28-06-2002 07:56									#1
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I got this idea from a picture posted by Lincoln in another thread where there is an athe...

but wait why trying to describe it, here:



I don't agree with that.

I believe that if an atheist has been a good person, and if (god forbid) there is a higher power, then he/she is going to heaven.

The fact that he did not believe in the existance of God is not relevant. What matters is that he had been a good person in his life.


Similarly, if a Christian, or better, a self-proclaimed Christian a person who thinks he's a Christian, has been a bastard in his life then he is going to hell.
It does not matter that he believed in the existance of God what matters is that he was a bad person in his life.


Is this enough simplistic?

What do you think?

	28-06-2002 08:00									#2
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Scared?

	28-06-2002 08:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Neither go to heaven.

So you are saying that God, if he exists, is not fair?

	28-06-2002 08:03									#4
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Exactly my views on religion: If a truly moral God exists, they won't care about specific beliefs so as long as I'm a good person i dont have to worry.

	28-06-2002 08:03									#5
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Right now in Catholicism both get in.

	28-06-2002 08:05									#6
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 So you are saying that God, if he exists, is not fair?

An atheist gets exactly what he expects to get after death, what's so unfair about it?

	28-06-2002 08:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc An atheist gets exactly what he expects to get after death, what's so unfair about it?

That God would give hell to a good person and heaven to a bad person based solely on wether they believed or not in His existance.


And also, apparently, the atheist does not get what he expects, but this is a secondary matter.

	28-06-2002 08:08									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc An atheist gets exactly what he expects to get after death, what's so unfair about it?

What does an atheist expect to get, exactly?

	28-06-2002 08:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 That God would give hell to a good person and heaven to a good person based solely on wether they believed or not in His existance.

You should try to read the Bible before trying to pass off your own beliefs as having some relation to Christianity.

	28-06-2002 08:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger What does an atheist expect to get, exactly?

Not to see God.

	28-06-2002 08:11									#11
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I also expect not to have to live in Hell. I expect to die...

	28-06-2002 08:11									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You should try to read the Bible before trying to pass off your own beliefs as having some relation to Christianity.

I think you should not be so dogmatic when talking about morality (or anything else for that matter)

There is a question.

Let your self free, and answer it

BTW, I am not trying to pass on anything as having relation with Christianity. I'm asking a question.

	28-06-2002 08:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Not to see God.

Fair enough. I've just heard people say that atheists "know" that they're bound for Hellfire and get exactly what they deserve etc. etc. Wanted to make sure that's not what you meant.

Edit: Hmm, apparently that is what you meant.

	28-06-2002 08:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I also expect not to have to live in Hell. I expect to die...

Hell is sepertion from God.

	28-06-2002 08:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I also expect not to have to live in Hell. I expect to die...

Well according to some beleifs (like mine) the options are die and heaven.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Hell is sepertion from God.

yes

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Hell is sepertion from God.

But it is also an afterlife, not an end to existence.

	28-06-2002 08:15									#18
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I was taught in the Mormon church, that no one goes to hell, except those who HAVE believed in the correct teachings (Mormon,of course) and THEN rejected those teachings AND rejected God will go to hell.

So, Atheists would not meet that criteria, unless they are former Mormons of high standing, wouldn't go to hell.

If an atheist WAS mormon they burn.

	28-06-2002 08:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Fair enough. I've just heard people say that atheists "know" that they're bound for Hellfire and get exactly what they deserve etc. etc.

CivNation was a laugh riot, wasn't he?

	28-06-2002 08:16									#20
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In many forms of christianity being 'good' will not get you to heaven.

Because no one is good. It is only by God's grace that you are saved. It is a free gift.

Jon Miller
(who thinks that it is possible for an atheist to go to heaven, but thinks that there will be more christians)

	28-06-2002 08:17									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse But it is also an afterlife, not an end to existence.

By my beleifs it is an end of existence.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc CivNation was a laugh riot, wasn't he?

Ditto for yourgoingtohell.com.

	28-06-2002 08:18									#23
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or I should say, existence ends (not that hell is an end of existence)

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:18									#24
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The question about what exactly is hell is a secondary matter.

The question is: is it fair that an atheist who has lived a compasionate life and has done many good deeds should not be rewarded for all this, simply because he did not believe in the existance of God.

	28-06-2002 08:20									#25
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BUt see all have sinned and deserve death. The atheist and the christian alike. There is no 'good' atheist just as there is no 'good' christian.

And I think that a great number of those who call themselves christians will not go to heaven, but I would not call them christians.

Christianity is not about deeds, it is about faith.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:20									#26
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quote: The question is: is it fair that an atheist who has lived a compasionate life and has done many good deeds should not be rewarded for all this, simply because he did not believe in the existance of God.

By my standards of "fair," no. However, God might have a different idea of what is "fair," and his concept of fairness trumps mine (since, sadly, I am not omnipotent).

	28-06-2002 08:20									#27
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I think it's hilarious that people believe in the Judio-Christian myth that is heaven. The afterlife is not going to be all clouds and pearly gates. It is incomprehensible to humans. That is why every human interpretation of it is wrong.... WRONG WRONG WRONG...

Just think about it logically. Prehistoric humans living 20,000 years BC had no knowledge of Jesus. Are they all in hell because they didn't accept him as their savior? What about deaf-mutes? Is Helen Keller in hell because she couldn't be taught about Jesus? And what about the spiritual Buddhists who are good to all living things... the ones who DON'T WORSHIP A SYSTEM OF GREED!!! I bet the Enron execs and Worldcom crooks go to church.... do they get into heaven? According to some protestants, if they repent right before they die, they do. No, I'm sorry.... God, or whatever power awaits us in death will judge us by our morals and who we are... NOT by whether or not we believed in some book that some evil immoral people wrote 2000 years ago to control the masses.

If God spoke to us in a loud booming voice, or had some method of direct communication, I would believe all this crap that these sicko zealots try to jam down my throat. God HAS NOT SPOKEN TO MAN BECAUSE HE IS BEYOND THIS WORLD... ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS EITHER GULLIBLE, STUPID, OR LYING.... You can't blame them though... its hard to be intellegent and objective when you get religion jammed down your throat at an early age. THATS WHY YOU DON'T PUSH RELIGION ON KIDS AT PUBLIC SCHOOLS, YOU KEEP IT OUT OF GOVERNMENT, AND YOU LET PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.

In closing, if you'd like to worship an invisible man who sees all, knows all, leaves no proof of his existence, sends you to burn for all eternity if you're bad or don't believe in Jesus, but still loves you, then be my guest... BUT DO IT IN YOUR OWN HOME OR PLACE OF WORSHIP.... KEEP IT OUT OF MY FACE, OUT OF MY SCHOOLS, AND OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT LIKE THE FOUNDING FATHERS WANTED!!!

	28-06-2002 08:22									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Hell is sepertion from God.

While you're still coscious. I don't expect to see anything.

	28-06-2002 08:22									#29
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Oh, I agree that heaven will not be clouds and pearly gates.

When did I ever say I thought that??

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 08:22									#30
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Oh, I agree that heaven will not be clouds and pearly gates.

When did I ever say I thought that??

Jon Miller