28-06-2002 09:00									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I only insult as a defensive mechanism

And you have been doing more than enough of that in this thread... I've received 8 complaints so far.

So if you continue with your "defensive mechanism"... which is against the rules here... You will be suspended

It is ok to disagree... it is not ok to call anybody that doesn't agree with you ignorant and stupid

	28-06-2002 09:00									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Not funny either. The Bible specifically refers to God as a He.

Actually, in Genesis, the original Hebrew refers to God as a "they," implying polytheism. The first books of the Bible were created at a time when the forefathers of Judaism were polytheistic.

	28-06-2002 09:00									#93
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Who are you to judge what love is??

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:01									#94
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To be honest I'm completely stunned about how many people believe in religion these days still.

How logical is it that there are hundreds of popular religions around the world? Only one of them can truly be right, so the odds aren't exactly in your favor.

How logical is it that a single man snapped his fingers and created the world as we know it? Who created that man?

None of it is logical, and requires faith. But why does everyone have so much faith in something no one has the slightest bit of proof of, but tons of "evidence" against it? Do you not want to displease your parents or something?

	28-06-2002 09:01									#95
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I was refering to Apocalypse

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:03									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Care to explain why?? So far you have only talked about problems with things which are not part of Christianity at all (or at least not as I practise it). Jon Mliler

Because if you set out certain rules like: the unicorn is always out of view, hiding behind the moon; and he hides underground when people come, then it couldn't be disproven. Christianity is already disproven because of the mythical powers, etc.

	28-06-2002 09:03									#97
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They're afraid of their own mortality, that's all. It's hard to accept the possibility of one ending completely with one's own death, and faith helps them believe that won't happen. Kind of arrogant, I think, but totally understandable.

	28-06-2002 09:03									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Who are you to judge what love is??

They can define lover however they think is correct, but it basically has to involve caring about something. Some are unable to do even that.

	28-06-2002 09:03									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Asher is right... oppresive male, etc... God is devoid of gender. Gender and sexuality is biological. God is not biological. And plus, it's just habit to refer to God as he. "It" doesn't sound right, and I won't say "God" all the time because I believe in pronouns.

You score brownie points with the ladies by referring to God as female.

	28-06-2002 09:03									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And you have been doing more than enough of that in this thread... I've received 8 complaints so far. So if you continue with your "defensive mechanism"... which is against the rules here... You will be suspended It is ok to disagree... it is not ok to call anybody that doesn't agree with you ignorant and stupid

Good show, Ming! That should do her!

	28-06-2002 09:05									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Asher To be honest I'm completely stunned about how many people believe in religion these days still. How logical is it that there are hundreds of popular religions around the world? Only one of them can truly be right, so the odds aren't exactly in your favor. How logical is it that a single man snapped his fingers and created the world as we know it? Who created that man? None of it is logical, and requires faith. But why does everyone have so much faith in something no one has the slightest bit of proof of, but tons of "evidence" against it? Do you not want to displease your parents or something?

Make a study of the religions. Those that seem to be logical to you look into more depth with. At onepoint you will have to sit down and expereince. There are many religions (including Christianity) which can be logical as far as our logic goes. And by expereicing Christ you can get evidence of Christianities validity.

Your post is so full of bad points I do not even know where to begin.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:05									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And you have been doing more than enough of that in this thread... I've received 8 complaints so far.

How many complaints did I rate? I got the angry smilies from you when I insulted everyone in a thread.

	28-06-2002 09:06									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse They can define lover however they think is correct, but it basically has to involve caring about something. Some are unable to do even that.

How do you know. if they are unable to do that now, that they were always unable to do that and will always be unable to do that.

You are not being very logical here.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:07									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Make a study of the religions. Those that seem to be logical to you look into more depth with. At onepoint you will have to sit down and expereince. There are many religions (including Christianity) which can be logical as far as our logic goes. And by expereicing Christ you can get evidence of Christianities validity. Your post is so full of bad points I do not even know where to begin. Jon Miller

Jon, everything is logical once you twist the hell out of it and install beliefs into people when they're children...

	28-06-2002 09:07									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And you have been doing more than enough of that in this thread... I've received 8 complaints so far. So if you continue with your "defensive mechanism"... which is against the rules here... You will be suspended It is ok to disagree... it is not ok to call anybody that doesn't agree with you ignorant and stupid

I'm sorry if people misinterpreted me. I did not personally call anybody stupid. I stated that "I believed" certain groups were ignorant because they believed in things that weren't true. But for the sake of civility I will refrain from further statements.

Could you please clarify the rules for me so that I do not make such an error in the future. Which statement would be against the rules?

"If you(directed at a member) believe 2+2=5 then you are stupid"

"People who believe 2+2=5 are stupid"

If they are both against the rules, can I replace "stupid" with "wrong"?

	28-06-2002 09:08									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov They're afraid of their own mortality, that's all. It's hard to accept the possibility of one ending completely with one's own death, and faith helps them believe that won't happen. Kind of arrogant, I think, but totally understandable.

I would be completely fine with the end of my own existence.

I believe in Christ becuase that is what I have been led to beleive based upon reason and expereince.

It just happens that Christianity has an afterlife, I would be fine believing in Christianity without the afterlife (with the belief that God would not want his ruined creation to live forever with him or something like that)

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:09									#107
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I will take it that my points are so brilliant and irrefutable that no one dares comment. Thank you.

	28-06-2002 09:09									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse They can define lover however they think is correct, but it basically has to involve caring about something. Some are unable to do even that.

Now if only I had a Bible with an index that could point me to some scriptures where it talks about disabilities. Anyone up for it?

	28-06-2002 09:10									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I believe in Christ becuase that is what I have been led to beleive based upon reason and expereince.

Explain this to me.

What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV.

Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

	28-06-2002 09:10									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I will take it that my points are so brilliant and irrefutable that no one dares comment. Thank you.

They are, I love you (in a plutonic, non-sexual kind of way)

	28-06-2002 09:10									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Jon, everything is logical once you twist the hell out of it and install beliefs into people when they're children...

No, you can look at things with reason and come up with what is logical and what is not. Yes, we do have faulty logic at times (man does) but that is all you have to deal with.

And I think that many things that my parents and pastors say are illogical.

Yes, beliefs are put into children, but people have the freedom to change and grow as they grow older. Or do you not beleive in free will.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:11									#112
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Jon Miller:

My experience is that most people are more afraid of their mortality than they dare admit or even acknowledge to themselves. Think about oblivion for a bit while you're lying in bed at night. It doesn't make for light bedtime thinking, I promise you.

	28-06-2002 09:12									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller No, you can look at things with reason and come up with what is logical and what is not. Yes, we do have faulty logic at times (man does) but that is all you have to deal with. And I think that many things that my parents and pastors say are illogical. Yes, beliefs are put into children, but people have the freedom to change and grow as they grow older. Or do you not beleive in free will. Jon Miller

(cough) suicide bombers (cough) 9-11 (cough)...

never underestimate the power of ignorance...

	28-06-2002 09:12									#114
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Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

	28-06-2002 09:12									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I'm sorry if people misinterpreted me. I did not personally call anybody stupid. I stated that "I believed" certain groups were ignorant because they believed in things that weren't true. But for the sake of civility I will refrain from further statements. Could you please clarify the rules for me so that I do not make such an error in the future. Which statement would be against the rules? "If you(directed at a member) believe 2+2=5 then you are stupid" "People who believe 2+2=5 are stupid" If they are both against the rules, can I replace "stupid" with "wrong"?

I think there was NO room for misinterpretation in your statement against people that believe in religion. And while you didn't target a specific member, you just slammed a decent percentage of the members here.
(obvious from the number of complaints I received in such short order) And, you will refrain from such statements because you will be suspended if you don't.

Again... since you don't seem to understand.

It is ok to disagree... It is ok to say something is illogical... It is ok to say that there is no proof so you don't believe... It is ok to say people are wrong.

It is NOT ok to insult them. Is that clear enough of for you.

	28-06-2002 09:13									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Explain this to me. What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV. Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

I haven't met him, but I will someday. I do KNOW him, however.

	28-06-2002 09:13									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Explain this to me. What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV. Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

I have expereinced him in my life and know others that do so also. My belief in Christianity is logical as far as my logic takes me.

While I admit that there are other beliefs that are also logical, that fact that mine is is enough to make it reasonable to believe in the manner that I do. Beyond there it is expereince, faith, and other intagible things.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:13									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller How do you know. if they are unable to do that now, that they were always unable to do that and will always be unable to do that. You are not being very logical here.

Just because someone loved something in the past does not make up for not be able to love in the present. I myself have not loved anything or anyone for years. I want to, but I am unable to for reasons beyond my control.

	28-06-2002 09:14									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

But is there any evidence that he did not exist??

And there is evidence of his existence, the Bible.

Jon Miller

	28-06-2002 09:14									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

There is a huge amount of evidence he existed, including many reports by Romans around that time. There just isn't reliable evidence that he did anything mericulous.