18-07-2002 07:53									#151
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This road thing is rather bothering me .
I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable.
Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

	18-07-2002 07:56									#152
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Blake This road thing is rather bothering me . I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable. Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

Still, the AI might simply build roads everwhere because that's how the AI is programmed... not to react to the commerce bonus, but to the precense of roads in relation to cities. At least, that's how I think it is (easier and make more sense... why program the AI to do something more complicated if the issue will mostly likely never arise?).

	18-07-2002 08:01									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The patch looks impressive when listed and I can't wait to see it myself. There is one problem though. Does this mean I still can't see all 16 players in the diplomacy sreen? I didn't see that listed as fixed and I'm getting worried because it is a major bug.

You Shift-right click to bring up more than 8, why is that a major bug?

Or are you just being lazy?

	18-07-2002 08:03									#154
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Nathan, I too hope it is more complicated than mentioned here in a few lines, but isn't this provided with the random tag (as opposed to pure defense or offense)? If that random property is kept, units can shift from offensive to defensive in game, so fewer problems with offensive MIs will arise. As there have been a lot of complaints on the way the last patch implied that some AIs will never build MAs, I can only guess this should be an improvement.

Of course, you can't expect the AI to behave completely human like regarding the use of their units, but added complexity (when done right) can only mean on improvement, no?

DeepO

	18-07-2002 08:10									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Perhaps what Soren meant is that a unit can only have 1 AI strategy working at a time, not at all. That would allow switching between the two, but it can only have one at a time. Can any 'higher-ups' confirm my theory?

	18-07-2002 08:11									#156
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis yes, the Commercial trait was improved for this patch. and there are a bunch of AI improvements (most of which don't typically get mentioned in readme's as they are quite under the hood), including faster pathfinding and improved AI build priorities (i.e. more knights/cavalry/tanks).

What about the AI using bombard units offensively?

	18-07-2002 08:20									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 EVIL!!! Can we at least have an option to turn this on/off? If not... I'm might think twice about this patch.

Why would you want to have it on? It really slows down the turns. I was getting really annoyed with the wait so I turned it off. Then I started getting reallly annoyed not being able to backtrack a turn or two, or start the map from the beginning. Damned if you do, damned if you don't is the way it stands now..

	18-07-2002 08:24									#158
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm not bothered by AI road sprawl. Just the appearences of my own empire.

	18-07-2002 08:27									#159
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My big question for Mike is: does he still consider the Editor to be a "Work in Progress", or does he feel that, with this patch, it's now complete? I, for one, hope that the former is the case!
Don't get me wrong, judging from the readme, this editor looks like it's going to ROCK!! I just feel like there are still a few things missing!

For instance, as others here have pointed out, we definitely need SOME kind of event editor! I was also looking forward to pooled flags for improvements and Wonders. My other big hope was to be able to create building and government-specific units!! Last of all, I really had hoped for the removal of the hardcoding for Cultural victory and movement on Roads and Rail!
Anyway, that said, GREAT WORK FIRAXIS, you have just made the editor an Order of Magnitude better!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	18-07-2002 08:30									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Still, the AI might simply build roads everwhere because that's how the AI is programmed... not to react to the commerce bonus, but to the precense of roads in relation to cities. At least, that's how I think it is (easier and make more sense... why program the AI to do something more complicated if the issue will mostly likely never arise?).

That's not how I'm reading this change. It sounds to me like it will be the same sort of thing as the mining bonus. If you turn it off, no Worker will build a mine on the terrain selected.

It seems to me that they're trying to address the frequent complaints regarding the ugly railroads everywhere, but I don't think this is going to be a very effective way of dealing with that.

At least they're trying, I'll give them that! Still needs a bit of work though, by the sounds of it.

	18-07-2002 08:39									#161
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Willem That's not how I'm reading this change. It sounds to me like it will be the same sort of thing as the mining bonus. If you turn it off, no Worker will build a mine on the terrain selected. It seems to me that they're trying to address the frequent complaints regarding the ugly railroads everywhere, but I don't think this is going to be a very effective way of dealing with that. At least they're trying, I'll give them that! Still needs a bit of work though, by the sounds of it.

I know, I was only referring to a possible change making it so that roads don't provide a commerce bonus, but can still be built anywhere and provide extra movement.

	18-07-2002 08:50									#162
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I came in a bit late here so I hope this ain't a repeat.

Anyone know about how to assign diplomacy (like treaties, like/dislike) between civs in a scenario? Can this be done, or is it coming in the expansion?

Im not complaining, this patch is brilliant!

	18-07-2002 08:51									#163
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar I came in a bit late here so I hope this ain't a repeat. Anyone know about how to assign diplomacy (like treaties, like/dislike) between civs in a scenario? Can this be done, or is it coming in the expansion? Im not complaining, this patch is brilliant!

We don't know yet.

That's the thing everyone wants to know at this point. Hopefully we'll know very soon.

	18-07-2002 08:58									#164
	Set starting date? Full PM-box? Change here!

Firaxis,

Will we be able to specify a starting date and date incrementation rules?

	18-07-2002 08:59									#165
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Trust me to ask the most obvoius question

Its all cool though, if there are no such editors I guess you could give yourself a heap of money and pay your way to war!

	18-07-2002 09:01									#166
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On second thoughts, make that heaps and heaps of money. The AI breaks alliances every second turn!

	18-07-2002 09:02									#167
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I know this has been said, many times, many ways. Merry Chri.... I mean, Thanks for all the support, guys! Cool patch. Just give me a minute to finish my time machine here so I can go foward and get it.

	18-07-2002 09:03									#168
	Re: Set starting date? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer Firaxis, Will we be able to specify a starting date and date incrementation rules?

Great question, that was one I wanted to ask but kept forgetting about.

*Adds it to his list of questions for Firaxis on Friday if they don't answer in here*

	18-07-2002 09:42									#169
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Blake This road thing is rather bothering me . I was hoping to set the road bonus to 0, and make all terrain types give 1 commerce, to cut back on the infinite road sprawl. If I understand right that'll make roads unbuildable. Or is the movement bonus an assignable bonus which counts as a bonus for allowing road construction?

If you set the construction bonus to 0 for roads, mines, or irrigation on a given tile, that effectively prevents the constructing of a road, mine, or irrigation on that tile.

Dan

	18-07-2002 09:49									#170
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, in the off-chance a Firaxian will answer my questions, I have a few important ones I'd like to ask:

- What editor diplomacy options are there?

- Is it possible to set certain tiles in ownership of a civ without a city being there? (for more realistic borders in scenarios)

- Any form at all of timer or events?

- Will there be a scenario set-up screen like there was in Civ 2 Gold?

- Is it possible to toggle the naming of Elite -> Leader units (currently) to something else, say, Veteran -> Elite?

- Is there an option to set a flat map?

- When you auto-fortify/auto-unfortify, is it for all units or just of one type?

- Is it possible to turn off culture-flipping? (especially for scenarios)

- What things are no longer hard-coded, i.e. "uncovered"?

- How can you set the starting date and date incrementation of turns?

- Will there be scenario objectives, ala "Objective cities" from Civ 2?

- Has the AI been improved to allow it to attack in stacks (rather than whenever it can get a unit to the front)?

- Has the AI been improved to allow the usage of (offensive) Artillery units better?

- Will there be the removal of the 100 turn limit on techs (for long scenarios)

If you don't answer now, I'll have them and more ready in 2 days.

[Edit]The list is growing, beware! [/Edit]

Last edited by Trip on 18-07-2002 at 12:43

	18-07-2002 10:14									#171
	Re: Re: 1.29f PATCH README Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Flinx I would have preferred if the diplomatic advisor reminded you that a deal has been in place for 20 turns and there was a option at that time to renegotiate or leave in place for another 5 turns, 10 turns or 20 turns (4 options). Sometimes you can loose a lot on renegotiations, so I don't want to automatically renegotiate a deal where I'm getting 110 gold/turn for my silks but I might want to renegotiate a deal where I am only getting 4 gold/turn for my spices.

I would hope the option to renegotiate would allow you to make a different deal this time if you so desired, or to ask them to keep the current deal.

	18-07-2002 10:37									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS If you set the construction bonus to 0 for roads, mines, or irrigation on a given tile, that effectively prevents the constructing of a road, mine, or irrigation on that tile. Dan

Thats really unfortunate. It could be especially annoying with things like mountains, which prehaps shouldn't give a commerce bonus, and also shouldn't allow wheeled units through (without a road, see my problem? ). It seems to me that this only reduces the flexibility the modmaker has

It's also odd, seems to suggest that the intended "primary" role of roads is the commerce bonus, rather than the movement bonus and resource transportation. It's actually silly .

	18-07-2002 12:19									#173
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Why does it seem they're avoiding answering any questions on the diplomacy in the editor?

Could it be they're waiting to surprise us, going to let us down gently or that they simply don't know themselves yet(ie; going to have a go at it today)?

I'm hoping for the first, but it will still be a great patch anyway.

Chris

	18-07-2002 12:27									#174
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Here's another question for the list

*Is it possible to convert save files to scenario files?

if so this would be an easy way (yet brutal) way to set Diplomacy as you coul play as each civ and set treaties that way.

Also I think that the editor is still being worked on for PTW as there is still a long wish list.

There is something else but I forgot :?

	18-07-2002 12:38									#175
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big news: dan is irish

patch: it's sad to say, but i care the most about fixes and changes of the gameplay, not the editor.... so far it looks great. there were no tweaks to the gameplay, especially ai to ai trading?

	18-07-2002 12:53									#176
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Fixes are good. I can't belive it took this many attempts to get the bloody SAM working!

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso big news: dan is irish patch: it's sad to say, but i care the most about fixes and changes of the gameplay, not the editor.... so far it looks great. there were no tweaks to the gameplay, especially ai to ai trading?

Dan IS Irish! I wonder if he follows Gaelic football? Its good, but aussie rules is better!

	18-07-2002 13:31									#177
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

* Editor: Fixed some bugs with players.

Umm how do you fix some bugs with players? And umm do you do referals?

	18-07-2002 16:49									#178
	Got spare money?

Great patch
But one question when we set starting locations can we speicfy which civ will start there ?

	18-07-2002 16:54									#179
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker Great patch But one question when we set starting locations can we speicfy which civ will start there ?

of course ! until now you could place starting locations, but couldn't allocate WHO starts WHERE (except with a 3rd party tool located in the apolyton files section)

now you can place either the starting cities locations or create the settlers at the appropriate spot (has same effect)

only 28 hours left....
*goingcrazywaiting*
*wrigglingnervouslyaroundinchair*

	18-07-2002 17:46									#180
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf only 28 hours left.... *goingcrazywaiting* *wrigglingnervouslyaroundinchair*

Eh, eh sabrewolf , you are too young to have spent some time in hospital, waiting for your wife delivering your baby, aren't you?

Well, you can count this as a good exercise for the future

And BTW, I was on the same hospital room with doctor, nurse and my wife, during borning of both of my children: I was almost as useless as during AI game turn, while you can see interesting things happening but you can't do much, if not reacting to some pop-up windows prompting!

Just to keep this barely on topic: interesting patch, my hat down to Firaxis's team to have add to it some nice feature.