18-07-2002 02:02									#1
	SCENARIO: The United States Civil War Enter the AD-FREE zone

Here it is, finally up.
Trip's United States Civil War scenario v1.03 is now complete and ready for download.

Apolyton viewers, please go to the link here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=27319
to get the file, since I can host the large size on CFC's server.

The File is about 3 MB in size, so non-broadband users be patient.

PLEASE READ THE README.TXT FILE INCLUDED IN THE SCENARIO FOLDER.
It contains some valuable information, and if you skip it, you may be sorry later on, so spend 5 minutes and read the darn thing alright?

To install, just follow these directions:
Download the .ZIP, then go into your Civ 3\Text\ folder. Right-click on the file "Civilopedia.txt", then uncheck where it says "Read-Only". Then with an up-to-date version of WinZip (I have v8.0), extract the .ZIP into your Civ 3 folder. It will overwrite nothing except your 'Civilopedia.txt' and 'Pediaicons.text' files, which is no problem if you're not using modified versions of those files. If you are, make back-ups of them first. After you've extracted the .ZIP, then everything will be ready for you to play. Go into Civ 3, select 'scenarios', find the folder and .BIC, and you're set to play.

Right now the Civilopedia on all the units and techs is not functioning, do not try to open them up in the Civilopedia or your game will crash. I may add Civilopedia support later on, but that's for another version, another day.

Anyways, I think that's about it. Hope everyone enjoys the scenario! Send feedback to GuardianOfTime@hotmail.com, or PM me.

My next project will probably be a scenario about Napoleon. We'll see when I can get started on that.

'Til then...

Go here for the file: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=27319

New Version 1.04
The problem of the massive money shortage has been fixed. You will now make more cash.

Attachment: minimapdemoobj2.jpg
This has been downloaded 840 time(s).

Last edited by Trip on 24-07-2002 at 03:55

	18-07-2002 02:21									#2
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Very interesting project.

	18-07-2002 02:42									#3
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I canŽt wait to play this one Trip... although I think youŽll need some more variation to the units...
Maybe you should use Adv. Infantry and entrenched Inf like in the civ2 cilvilwarscenario?
Just a thought ...

And will you have to use research to get all of the present units or do you have them from the start?

Anyway keep working

Last edited by Fatwreck on 18-07-2002 at 02:48

	18-07-2002 02:48									#4
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I'll probably add some more units later. More 'veteran'-ish units. I'll probably add a rifled Artillery unit as well. But I need ideas. The Advanced Infantry and Entrenched Infantry are good examples. However, I don't think they really fit in this kind of scenario. Early units were Muskets, then later Rifled Muskets. The same with artiller: Smoothbore cannons to rifled ones. I'll try to come up with more ideas for units.

	18-07-2002 02:57									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Trip More 'veteran'-ish units.

One idea is to call your first riflemen Regular rifleman then (if this EVER becomes a possibility) trigger an event that makes all of these Regulars: Crack Troops
Or just create a unit that is called crack Troops and upgrade them the ordinary way...

And the early musket - later rifle muskets: Use it like that, no need to get technical...
And give the rifled ones a boost to defence rather than offence...

	18-07-2002 03:03									#6
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I'll certainly have to playtest everything first, but thanks for the suggestions, I will keep them in mind!

	18-07-2002 03:12									#7
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Anytime ... hope it wonŽt take to long...

	18-07-2002 03:15									#8
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BTW IIRC I donŽt think that ironclads were in use from the start, i think it was the confederates who came up with the idea and then the union used them as well...

	18-07-2002 03:31									#9
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I know, but I'm sure either could have built them at any time. Neither will start with them, and they're fairly expensive, so I doubt many will roam the seas for some time.

I wanted to make some kind of "Veteran" infantry unit for later in the war. It would represent: a shift from smoothbore muskets to rifled ones, as well as the increasing numbers of veteran troops. This would allow for both an increase of the attack and defense of the units (since half of the attacking during this era involved gaining the courage to run forward with a thousand guns aimed at you... veterans were more apt to do this than green troops).

I think I will make it a 9/12 for both sides... not sure what to call it yet. "Veterans" would work, except I don't want to have a popup saying "your Veteran Veterans have become elite".

	18-07-2002 04:23									#10
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I'm looking forward to playing this. I don't really know anything about the history of the period, but it seems like the perfect setting for a Civ3 scenario.

	18-07-2002 05:15									#11
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I'm looking forward to playing this. I don't really know anything about the history of the period, but it seems like the perfect setting for a Civ3 scenario.

I hope to make it so that you'll be impressed with it.
If you have any suggestions, then any and all are welcome.

	18-07-2002 06:02									#12
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I also posted on your thread at CivFanatics, but I just had a few more ideas:

1) Observation Ballon - A flying unit that can only do reconnaissance missions.

2) Something with gatling guns, probably primarily a defensive unit.

Also, I believe at the beginning of the war (and throughout the war) most troops used muzzle loading rifles that fired minie balls (no, I'm not trying to make a joke with that name, that's what they were called). Minie balls were slightly smaller than the diameter of the barrel of the rifle (most of which were about .50 cal I believe), with a hollow cone at the base of the bullet. When fired, the gas hit the hollow base and expanded it so the bullet would fit the rifled grooves. This coupled rifle accuaracy and range with high rates of fire, at least until breach loading rifles came into wider use.

Eventually the North developed the Sharpes rifle, which was a repeating rifle that held about 7 shots. Mostly cavalry carried this rifle, though they would often dismount to fight on foot.

A great source for information about the Civil War is www.thehistorynet.com. They have information about leaders, battles, the development of new weapon systems (such as the confederate sub who's name escapes me now), social changes brought about by the war, etc. I think they have an entire section of articles dedicated to the Civil War.

	18-07-2002 06:28									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ed O'War I also posted on your thread at CivFanatics, but I just had a few more ideas: 1) Observation Ballon - A flying unit that can only do reconnaissance missions. 2) Something with gatling guns, probably primarily a defensive unit. Also, I believe at the beginning of the war (and throughout the war) most troops used muzzle loading rifles that fired minie balls (no, I'm not trying to make a joke with that name, that's what they were called). Minie balls were slightly smaller than the diameter of the barrel of the rifle (most of which were about .50 cal I believe), with a hollow cone at the base of the bullet. When fired, the gas hit the hollow base and expanded it so the bullet would fit the rifled grooves. This coupled rifle accuaracy and range with high rates of fire, at least until breach loading rifles came into wider use. Eventually the North developed the Sharpes rifle, which was a repeating rifle that held about 7 shots. Mostly cavalry carried this rifle, though they would often dismount to fight on foot. A great source for information about the Civil War is www.thehistorynet.com. They have information about leaders, battles, the development of new weapon systems (such as the confederate sub who's name escapes me now), social changes brought about by the war, etc. I think they have an entire section of articles dedicated to the Civil War.

Is there a balloon graphic? I remember seeing one somewhere... but that's probably not for Civ 3.

The problem with adding endless units now becomes the availability of graphics, since I'm not exactly an animator.
The Gatling wouldn't be a bad idea... not sure how exactly to impliment it though. They didn't have that much significance in this conflict, so I don't want to make them too powerful, but if I make them weaker, then people will be compelled to just use regular infantry instead.

I just looked at a site about the Civil War yesterday, and a lot of what you said was included (including the "Minie Ball".. I thought it was something out of a Walt Disney movie ).

	18-07-2002 06:50									#14
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I don't know about a ballon unit, but pesoloco did a dirigible unit over at CivFanatics. It's not perfect, but would do as a stand in until something better comes along.

As for gatling guns, maybe you should just drop them. As you mention, they didn't play that big of a role, and they were probably weren't independently deployed anyways.

	18-07-2002 07:14									#15
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Trip, I think your map needs more forests...

I know units cost pop points, but this seems to favour the western part of the map too much, which wasn't the case in the civil war, was it?

or maybe i just can't see the map well enough...

sounds cool anyways

	18-07-2002 07:15									#16
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btw, have you heard of this mod someone made where all attack values were taken away and everything had bombard on, with lethal bombard?

on a zoomed in map like this, you could go the same way, more tactical than strategic.

just a thought...

	18-07-2002 07:17									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Captain Trip, I think your map needs more forests... I know units cost pop points, but this seems to favour the western part of the map too much, which wasn't the case in the civil war, was it? or maybe i just can't see the map well enough... sounds cool anyways

There's actually quite a lot of you look at it up close. The East has many more bonus resources as well, making the East much more important.

	18-07-2002 07:17									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Captain btw, have you heard of this mod someone made where all attack values were taken away and everything had bombard on, with lethal bombard? on a zoomed in map like this, you could go the same way, more tactical than strategic. just a thought...

I want this to be a more 'mainstream' scenario. I may try that for a more specialized version though.

	18-07-2002 07:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Captain btw, have you heard of this mod someone made where all attack values were taken away and everything had bombard on, with lethal bombard? on a zoomed in map like this, you could go the same way, more tactical than strategic. just a thought...

This is an interesting idea, especially for a modern scenario that uses almost all firearms instead of melee weapons. It would definitely change the way combat is dealt with.

	18-07-2002 07:42									#20
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I like the gatlin gun idea. I believe it didn't have a major effect on the war because it came out towards the tail end. And I do know from my history that it was quite devestating, even in its low numbers. I don't know what your tech tree is like, but perhaps you can make this like one of the most 'advances' units that wouldn't be obtainable until well into the game, at a point when one side would most likely have almost won. just an idea...

Kman

	18-07-2002 08:07									#21
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Kman:
I haven't yet worked at all on the tech tree yet. I want to make sure that I get all the units I'm going to have out on the table and confirmed before I have to do something that will require a lot of redesign should things go sour for one reason or another. I will certainly consider the Gatling, once I get around to the more complicated facets of the scenario.

Another thing. A request to all people to review the current stats on all the units. I want them to be as balanced as possible, and I'm sure I'll be able to work out a few kinks between now and D-Hour if I have your guys' help.

	18-07-2002 08:39									#22
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quote: Another thing. A request to all people to review the current stats on all the units. I want them to be as balanced as possible, and I'm sure I'll be able to work out a few kinks between now and D-Hour if I have your guys' help.

I have a large interest in the civil war, and can't wait for this mod.

One thing I thought of while looking over your unit stats is that the map is very large as far as the land mass and I'm sure much of the country will be un-railroaded. To help facilitate troop movement, I think you should think about making all of the foot soldiers have at least two move points a turn (instaed of 1), your horsemen 4 movement points, and your artillery 1. One thing that I've found to be intesting is to make roads use 1/4 a movement point instead of 1/3, so that a unit with one move can move 4 spaces instead of 3. Just some ideas, I'll probably keep posting more as they come to me cause of my interest in this project, but please feel free to reject/accept them at will, I don't care. Oh you may want to change your naval movement accordingly if you like this idea.

Kman

	18-07-2002 08:47									#23
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Trip:

For the most part the stats seem pretty balanced. However, there are few things I would like to suggest:

1) I like how the Union artillery has a higher ROF than the Confederate artillery. I think this is appropriate. But I think the ROF for all of your artillery units might be a little high. You may want to consider dropping the ROF for each artillery by one point (they'll still be higher than the ROF for artillery in a standard game).

2) Ditto for the naval units with bombardment abilities: consider dropping the ROFs by one or two points.

3) Also, will all of the bombardment units have the Destroy Land Units and Destroy Sea Units abilities?

4) The Conscript infantry unit is redundant, IMO. You should consider flagging standard Riflemen as draftable: when they are drafted they will have Conscript experience level, giving them only two hit points, reflecting their lack of battle hardiness.

If you really want to keep the concept, consider calling it Irregulars or Militia instead, representing old men and young boys who haven't been drafted/recruited yet. As you mentioned before, it would be a little weird to get a message saying 'Your Conscript Conscripts has been promoted to Regular'.

5) An alternate name for 'Veteran' infantry might be 'Repeating Infantry', for repeating rifles.

6) I think Raiders is a good name for Confederate guerillas. Many of the guerilla outfits usually had 'raider' in their names anyways.

I think your scenario is shaping up very nicely. Keep up the great work!

	18-07-2002 08:49									#24
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Kman:

That's one of the things I was thinking about also.

I think I will accept that proposal, and decrease road movement to only 2x normal, so as not to give units the ability to march from Washington to Richmond in one turn.

	18-07-2002 08:58									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ed O'War 1) I like how the Union artillery has a higher ROF than the Confederate artillery. I think this is appropriate. But I think the ROF for all of your artillery units might be a little high. You may want to consider dropping the ROF for each artillery by one point (they'll still be higher than the ROF for artillery in a standard game).

I took the values from the blitz mod, so they're probably understandably greater than they ought to be. Updating.

quote: 2) Ditto for the naval units with bombardment abilities: consider dropping the ROFs by one or two points.

The same.

quote: 3) Also, will all of the bombardment units have the Destroy Land Units and Destroy Sea Units abilities?

In this era, there were no bombardment units capable of complete destruction of units, ala aircraft, so no, neither will be flagged.

quote: 4) The Conscript infantry unit is redundant, IMO. You should consider flagging standard Riflemen as draftable: when they are drafted they will have Conscript experience level, giving them only two hit points, reflecting their lack of battle hardiness.

That part slipped when I changed the values in lieu of the experience difference.

quote: If you really want to keep the concept, consider calling it Irregulars or Militia instead, representing old men and young boys who haven't been drafted/recruited yet. As you mentioned before, it would be a little weird to get a message saying 'Your Conscript Conscripts has been promoted to Regular'.

Hehe, you're right.
But I wish there was some way to 'run through' the ideal soldier population, then the soldier quality begins to decrease as the war goes on (especially in the South). Any suggestions? If not, I'll probably just eliminate the unit

quote: 5) An alternate name for 'Veteran' infantry might be 'Repeating Infantry', for repeating rifles.

Hmmm, a possibility. It doesn't strike me as 'brilliant' material, but it's the best suggestion so far.

quote: 6) I think Raiders is a good name for Confederate guerillas. Many of the guerilla outfits usually had 'raider' in their names anyways.

Great, one down!

quote: I think your scenario is shaping up very nicely. Keep up the great work!

Much of it due to your help. Danke.

	18-07-2002 09:00									#26
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quote: 5) An alternate name for 'Veteran' infantry might be 'Repeating Infantry', for repeating rifles.

I remember reading somewhere that the soldiers who used the repeating carbines were usually mounted, and came in towards the end of the war when the repeating fire arm was introduced (never widely used, like the gatlin gun). These mounted troops usually only saw combat in skirmishes, or small shoot outs if you will, with confederates (who did not have repeaters). So you may want to call them skirmishers, perhaps? Though when i say that my mind always conjures a picture of hellenistic or Roman guy hurling a javalin...maybe thats not so good of a name....

	18-07-2002 09:12									#27
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quote: Any suggestions? If not, I'll probably just eliminate the unit

NOOO! The militia unit is a great idea. It can be like a conscript, but for those who don't want to conscript and make there citizens mad. Ive played around with the idea quite successfully:

You give it lower attack and deffence values than regular troops, say 2 less attack, 1 less defense.
You can edit its hit points and give it a bonus of -1, therefore having the hit points of a conscript. These units cannot be drafted, but instead are much cheaper to build, at least one shield cheaper if not two. This simulates "volunteers", the cost of them being the cost to equip them.

	18-07-2002 09:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Trip In this era, there were no bombardment units capable of complete destruction of units, ala aircraft, so no, neither will be flagged.

Generally I agree with this. However, consider giving land artillery (at least heavier artillery) the ability to kill and units. Why? Artillery in this age was fired in a direct role (rather than called in in an indirect fire support role). This combined with canister shot at close range could literally devastate concentrated formations of infantry (Pickett's Charge?). However, now that I mention this I remembered that the artillery units are going to have ranges of 2 or 3 spaces...hmmmm, I guess I need to think on this more.

quote: Hehe, you're right. But I wish there was some way to 'run through' the ideal soldier population, then the soldier quality begins to decrease as the war goes on (especially in the South). Any suggestions? If not, I'll probably just eliminate the unit

I like the idea of 'running through the ideal soldier population'. One way to implement this is to make it so that Conderate Riflemen cannot be drafted, but Union Riflemen can be drafted (the North had more ideal soldier age males). The South can only draft Irregulars/Militia units (or build them relatively cheaply), representing all the war cripples, old men and young boys. The South can still build regular Riflemen, but the relative disparity in production/economic power will make this a more expensive option for the South, and they won't be able to get the Riflemen on the cheap by drafting them. As a stop gap, you can use the musketman to represent Southern militia units until you find a better unit graphic.

quote: Hmmm, a possibility. It doesn't strike me as 'brilliant' material, but it's the best suggestion so far.

Yeah, it didn't strike me as being brilliant either. I'll keep thinking on this one, maybe I can come up with something better. Maybe I'll do a little reading up on The History Net tomorrow.

quote: Much of it due to your help. Danke.

Bitte! I'm glad to be of service. I'll definitely be checking in on your two civil war threads on a regular basis.

	18-07-2002 09:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman I remember reading somewhere that the soldiers who used the repeating carbines were usually mounted, and came in towards the end of the war when the repeating fire arm was introduced (never widely used, like the gatlin gun). These mounted troops usually only saw combat in skirmishes, or small shoot outs if you will, with confederates (who did not have repeaters). So you may want to call them skirmishers, perhaps? Though when i say that my mind always conjures a picture of hellenistic or Roman guy hurling a javalin...maybe thats not so good of a name....

I think you're generally right, that cavalry tended to use the repeating rifles. However, I thought the Union cavalry at Gettysburg were armed with repeaters. Of course, I could be completely off on this. Perhaps 'Repeating Infantry' can be a late technology unit representing the wide production and distribution of the advanced repreating rifle. If the South had managed to fight on past 1865, most probably they would have faced more and more Union line infantry units that had been issued repeaters in place of the muzzle loading rifles (not withstanding traditional military opposition to implementing new technologies/tactics).

	18-07-2002 09:30									#30
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Alright, I've merged the idea of a militia/conscripts/volunteers/whatever into the idea that Ed came up with. Take a look at the updated stats for more info. It may take some playtesting though in order to get the # of shields VS combat stats so that the AI produces more 'real' infantry than the weaker ones. That's what you guys are for.

If anyone comes up with a better name for "Advanced Infantry" that's somewhat accurate (), then feel free to share.