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moomin
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Moo Like In Moomin
Jul 2000
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
More cities than New Orleans hold Mardi Gras parades,
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Like three more in Louisiana? Any hamlet above the ten thousand inhabitants in the westen world has it's own gay parade these days.
I can't really believe you're serious arguing over this point.
quote:
and regardless I guarantee you I can find tenfold photographic and other evidence of lewd public heterosexual behavior, whether in the context of a parade or not.
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We can hardly keep anybody responsible for what private indviduals do, be they hetero or homo. You are only accountable for your own actions as an individual. This, of course, has nothing to do with what the groups you choose to belong to practice officially.
That homo paraders just can't seem to throw out the disgraceful elements after decades of parading is the reason people naturally assume homos to be more likely to be inflicting what should be their own private business on all and sundry.
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No, I wouldn't which is my point. But the group would be, um, heterosexuals? At least, they and you all claim to be. |
Pro primo, I can't recall ever taking the stand and declaring whatever my personal inclinations may be here on Poly. My, we are assumptive today, aren't we?
Pro secundo, even if I was a flaming hetero crusader, you still couldn't stick me with Jerry unless I was actually part of his congregation or at least chose to participate in some public event with him.
And for the record, I've chosen to drop out of demonstrations for things I belived in - against the former dictature in Chile, in fact - because I didn't want to legitimize the commies who where flying their murderous symbols in that train and whom the organizers wouldn't throw out.
Unless you want to be associated with those who've you've chosen to officially associate with - even in the name of tolerance - you should consider doing the same.
Or at least stop posting incredolous remarks to the effect you just can't understand why people imagine gays are generally less discreet than heteros.
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Faeelin
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Tau Ceti
Oct 2001
time: 05:21
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Wait. So we can only be accountable for ourselves, yet groups must be accountable for all members?
And, of course, your entire argument is based on parades. Based on this logic, I hate and abhor the civil rights movement, because the black panthers marched.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:21
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A few points
1. There is nothing "wrong" with homosexuality and the "natural" and "unnatural" comments amount to a bunch of hogwash
2. Public displays of affection are a separate issue and I think everyone has a different tolerance point of what they are comfortable with-- I don't see this as an "orientation" issue but merely one of good taste
3. I have found that my homosexual acquaintances are more likely to refer to their sexuality . I don't know if this is some sort of " bigot test" to gauge people's reaction, or just that the fact that being homosexual is more part of their identity ( being in a hetero dominated society), or just an attempt to let people know.
With some acquaintances it just seems that every discussion has to turn to sexuality. I avoid this group after a while just like I tend to avoid the guy that can only talk about his car or the one that only talks about his kids.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by moominparatrooper
Like three more in Louisiana? Any hamlet above the ten thousand inhabitants in the westen world has it's own gay parade these days.
I can't really believe you're serious arguing over this point. |
I can't believe you are seriously arguing it. I never contended there weren't more gay parades than Mardis Gras (but there are more than just Louisiana, too. Other major cities have them, especially in the South). But can you seriously say that inappropriate gay PDAs outnumber straight ones? Not even close.
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We can hardly keep anybody responsible for what private indviduals do, be they hetero or homo. You are only accountable for your own actions as an individual. This, of course, has nothing to do with what the groups you choose to belong to practice officially. |
The first point is valid and is where you should have stopped. The second sentence is confusing. What do you mean "officially?" I don't recall there being an official doctrine of homosexuality that I had to ascribe to... 
quote:
That homo paraders just can't seem to throw out the disgraceful elements after decades of parading is the reason people naturally assume homos to be more likely to be inflicting what should be their own private business on all and sundry. |
Homo paraders don't "throw them out" because it would be utter hypocrisy to tell a group they can't participate based upon whatever their particular style was. For the record, parade organizers follow the law, and as most municipalities have laws against acts of public lewdness and displaying of genitals, those are also the rules of the parades. Anyone who violates those rules is not sanctioned to do so. But is it possible to prevent those things from happening? No. People will do them, always, if just for shock value.
But to organize a parade whose origins comes from promoting tolerance and acceptance of something seen by society as abnormal and then say to a group within the parade "you either act normal or get lost" is ludicrous, anyway.
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Pro primo, I can't recall ever taking the stand and declaring whatever my personal inclinations may be here on Poly. My, we are assumptive today, aren't we? |
There is a certain point where we can make logical assumptions based on continuing behavior. Given your attitudes on this subject, any other assumption would be illogical. Don't play semantic games.
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Pro secundo, even if I was a flaming hetero crusader, you still couldn't stick me with Jerry unless I was actually part of his congregation or at least chose to participate in some public event with him. |
Nope. You yourself it's not a problem to judge someone based on the acts of a minority of their groups. Since you have given a rationale justifying stereotypes (which astounds me), then obviously stereotypes of whatever nature are just fine. You seem to want gays to actively refute any connection to their "extreme" elements in order to avoid your stereotyping them. I'm saying nobody should have to do that. It's your fault for making the stereotype, as it is narrow ignorance.
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And for the record, I've chosen to drop out of demonstrations for things I belived in - against the former dictature in Chile, in fact - because I didn't want to legitimize the commies who where flying their murderous symbols in that train and whom the organizers wouldn't throw out. |
Well, good for you. But that is an obvious point wherein the point of view of those groups was, in your opinion, harmful to others. How can you possibly equate that to some guy walking down 5th avenue in buttless leather chaps?
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Unless you want to be associated with those who've you've chosen to officially associate with - even in the name of tolerance - you should consider doing the same. |
No, because it's your fault for making the association into a stereotype of my behavior. As was said here earlier, take each individual on their own merit. Anyhting else is ignorant bigotry.
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Or at least stop posting incredolous remarks to the effect you just can't understand why people imagine gays are generally less discreet than heteros. |
I am incredulous because it isn't true. But it seems more attention is paid to gays because it is less common and more "shocking" to those who aren't used to it. So you're a dupe of media hyperbole, fine. But now I'm also incredulous how someone like yourself can so blithely rationalize prejudice like you have here. It's so blatantly bigoted I can't believe it's been said.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Likewise, it's nice to have the technology such that we can "cure" people of being heterosexual now.
We can "cure" sex entirely, and whenever somebody wants a baby they can go to a special kind of clinic and get it grown in a testtube. 
(BTW, Ned, do we have some kind of population problem so that you must make EVERYONE reproduce? I thought the world was overpopulated enough as it is, myself) |
Asher, I'm not Chinese, but I obey. I have only one kid. She just graduated, magna *** laude, from Carleton. I am a very proud father.
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Jon Miller
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for every china
there is a canada
or north dakota
pollution is also a problem of social systems (namely capitalism)
not population
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Pollution is not a problem of capitalism, Jon, it's a problem of scale and a modern world. Hellllllllllllooooooooo.
And just so you know, Jon, I'm not talking about just living space. The main problems are food and pollution. |
neither food nor space are any issue at all
pollution doesnt have to be
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Pollution is not a problem of capitalism, Jon, it's a problem of scale and a modern world. Hellllllllllllooooooooo.
And just so you know, Jon, I'm not talking about just living space. The main problems are food and pollution. |
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
You seem to think that the arbitrary delineation of national borders somehow makes overpopulation in one part of the world not apply to those regions where there is sparse population...interesting. |
If China and other nations really cared about their people they could feed them fine
yes, I did not worry about national borders in my statement
that is because immegration should be open (as long as you treat your new nation as your nation)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
You seem to think that the arbitrary delineation of national borders somehow makes overpopulation in one part of the world not apply to those regions where there is sparse population...interesting. |
If China and other nations really cared about their people they could feed them fine
yes, I did not worry about national borders in my statement
that is because immegration should be open (as long as you treat your new nation as your nation)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
You've been watching too much Mr. Rogers, Jon. |
food and space are not issues
if you look at the numbers there is more than enough space for everyone
and there is more than enough food (the US could easily feed the world, many of our farmers get paid not to produce food, many other places are similar)
the pollution problem is bigger, but it can be adressed by dismantling the corporations
Jon Miller
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23-07-2002 22:24
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