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Simon Darkshade
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Evil HQ, Adelaide, South Australia
May 2001
time: 14:21
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The most rampant, flaming heterosexuals I know are all the products of single-sex schooling. Of course, one is trying to help them unlearn such vexing addiction to breeding and copulation, but it is hard to undo the work of so many years. 
There are plenty of opportunities to mix with and see females at an all male school, provided it is not a boarding school inside the Arctic Circle or the like - outside of school hours, socials, sporting events, etc, etc. Ye just don't have them sitting in class distracting, nor around the schoolyard.
If this minor deprivation (and it is big stretch to call it even that) causes major psychological damage, then there was quite possibly something broken in the first place.
Many examples can be thrown back and forth about how they were good for some people, and not for others, and this is quite true - they are not for every boy. But neither are they bad for every boy. It comes down to the individual children, and those who know them best.
And for the ultimate lack of girl trouble, ye could always have them spayed now, in order to save bother later. Ye could get a lower rate due to their youth (even a group price if ye can get them all fixed at once); they'd have more years to forget the agonizing pain, callous betrayal and utter humiliation by those they trusted most; and best of all, ye would get a government medal for services to the gene pool. 
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Simon Darkshade
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Evil HQ, Adelaide, South Australia
May 2001
time: 14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
One thing I can say from my perspective is that, should a boy be homosexual, attending an all-boys school could end up being a nightmare of abuse for him. Considering that male homosexuals tend to find their earliest and closest friendships with girls, it might make them feel isolated and alone, and should the other boys suspect his proclivities, it could set him up for a really horrible time, perhaps even a dangerous one. Especially at a religiously-oriented school.
Otherwise, I think the arguments against all-boys schools are a little specious. I don't see any evidence they are any more harmful than co-ed education. |
1.) That is quite true in some circumstances, and one has read many accounts of such. There is definitely a climate of extreme homophobia, as well as general bigotry and right wing sentiment (which makes excellent working material for some  ). But it is not impossible - look at the British public school system that produced so many notable men of such a persuasion over the years. Stephen Fry has written some quite good stuff about it
But it is true that terms such as 'faggot' get bandied about as every second word as insults, but that is not a phenomenon limited to all-male schools from what one has observed.
Quite true that it can get horrible and even dangerous, as well. One can recall many fifth hand tales of old.
Haven't heard that bit about 'earliest and closest relationships with girls' before. Interesting notion, though by no means the rule.
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SuperSneak
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In the land of the one-eyed
Jun 2000
time: 21:21
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Well, this will probably let the air out of your balloon, but old Sneaky went to an all boys Catholic school and loved it.
We had plenty of interaction with the two all girl's schools and yes, the girls at local co-ed public schools favored our attentions more than their classmates', as we were "mysterious".
Contrary to Asher's paranoid generalizations, being in a traditionally paternal environment helped to teach those of us with half a brain some of the more classic concepts of being gentlemen. Plus, an environment without as much peer pressure greatly aided in teaching young men to be more open and honest about their feelings in class and on retreats, as there was no worry about feeling stupid in front of girls.
It may lead to slightly paternalistic worldviews, but it certainly didn't hurt my ability to interact with girls at all...I got more tail than a toilet seat and still had positive interactions with girls all the way through college. In fact, I'm a couple of credits away from a Women's Studies degree, but that is due more to the fact that it is a great place to meet girls than any intrinsic desire to immerse myself in their issues.
Bottom line, I think a parochial education is far better than the majority of public education, and the added boon of less distraction while hormones are running rampant is a major plus.
Sadly, my alma mater is now co-educational, so there is no all male option left in Portland.
I think certain kids might do better elsewhere--and if that is the case, you should send that kid elsewhere, but I do remember the family legacies at my school (multiple brothers) and it certainly gave those guys a slight additional leg up on the rest of us.
Send them!
Asher's violent complaints should be all the evidence you need...
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperSneak
Well, this will probably let the air out of your balloon, but old Sneaky went to an all boys Catholic school and loved it. |
And look how well it turned out for Sneak. 
quote:
Contrary to Asher's paranoid generalizations, being in a traditionally paternal environment helped to teach those of us with half a brain some of the more classic concepts of being gentlemen. |
Welcome to the 21st century, Sneak, and gender equality. Some of us are polite to everyone (in person ), not just a single sex. 
quote:
Plus, an environment without as much peer pressure greatly aided in teaching young men to be more open and honest about their feelings in class and on retreats, as there was no worry about feeling stupid in front of girls. |
Sneak, you're honestly trying to tell me that when it's ALL boys that teaches people to be more "open and honest about their feelings"? That's a crock.
Unless for some reason both you and horsie (and obviously blackice) have issues with females it shouldn't be a problem. The vast majority of people find girls to be far easier to talk to and be open and honest about their feelings with.
If for some reason you need to put on a show for girls to get their attention (which is probably the case for you two), I can see why you felt relieved from the stress of not having to put up an act at school just so you can get laid.
Some of us don't worry about it, and just be ourselves and see where that takes us.
So which is the better environment for a child to go to school in? One which segregates the sexes like races were once, or one that promotes equality? One which exposes children to only working with one sex, or one which exposes children to working with both sexes?
It seems to me the only argument anyone that's put forth in favor of a unisex school is that it's less stress. And the only reason it'd add stress is if you've got some kind of pre-existing issues. 
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Simon Darkshade
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Evil HQ, Adelaide, South Australia
May 2001
time: 14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by drake
Some might prefer getting places in life by the good old boy system, but many prefer the old fashioned hard work thing.
Teaching kids at such a young age that they are inherently better than other kids is not the best life lesson if you ask me, but to each thier own. |
 Now that is a revolutionary outlook.
W...o.r.k? What other bolshy notions will you be coming up with next, drake my old mate? Ending capital punishment in schools? Giving the vote to the poor and to the peasants?
Surely not removing the institution of slavery on everyone who hasn't got a knighthood!!
It is not a substitute for hard work, but a force multiplier - it opens doors and opportunities that you still have to take advantage of yourself. The old school tie cannot do everything. (To start off with, it is just an elderly clothing accessory... )
Nor is it teaching some children that they are inherently better than others (even though some are ), merely that they have been given a great opportunity and a terrific starting position, but it is up to them to work it from there, and to earn it, in the Private Ryan sense.
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SuperSneak
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In the land of the one-eyed
Jun 2000
time: 21:21
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Asher, having attended both systems, I believe I speak from a position of experience unlike yourself. When you add up all the plusses and minuses, in the end, a single sex high school was a positive for me.
quote:
Sneak, you're honestly trying to tell me that when it's ALL boys that teaches people to be more "open and honest about their feelings"? That's a crock |
What you are failing to realize is that most teenage boys would rather not talk about their socialization issues (girls, home, peers, sports, class, et. al) in front of girls due to perceived weakness. Of course, we both know that girls will generally find this to be attractive, but your average teenage boy doesn't have that figured out yet.
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Unless for some reason both you and horsie (and obviously blackice) have issues with females it shouldn't be a problem. The vast majority of people find girls to be far easier to talk to and be open and honest about their feelings with. |
I guessed you missed the part about my intense studies on gender equality and women's issues? I have tons of credit hours in both topics and can probably run circles around you on that topic. Just because you're bi doesn't give you some divine birthright to claim superior knowledge of gender issues. I have a good deal more life experience than you do, namely, a very diverse upbringing that exposed me directly to many different cultures, races and genders. I am not saying that an all boy's school is the end all be all for everyone, merely that it has pros and cons for an individual. The cons you site (i.e. an inability to connect with women) are fallacious...it's just not the case. Nor is there an atmosphere of "we are better than women". More accurately, there is an atmosphere of "we can concentrate on specific areas better this way".
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If for some reason you need to put on a show for girls to get their attention (which is probably the case for you two), I can see why you felt relieved from the stress of not having to put up an act at school just so you can get laid. |
That's just ridiculous. To some extent you have to put on a show...it's called courtship, brainiac. I have no idea what this is in response to in the first place...are you trying to tell me that there is equal attention to women placed in both all boy's and co-ed schools? If you are, you are sadly mistaken. Our focus was academics, not fashion and dating. Your lack of focus in academics is glaringly obvious. While I learned to debate and support a thesis, you obviously were checking out asses and perusing the latest Old Navy catalogue.
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Some of us don't worry about it, and just be ourselves and see where that takes us. |
Sounds a bit like living life as a weather vane. Hope you get on track some day.
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So which is the better environment for a child to go to school in? One which segregates the sexes like races were once, or one that promotes equality? One which exposes children to only working with one sex, or one which exposes children to working with both sexes? |
There was no "segregation" in its classic sense. There was an acknowledgement that some boys would benefit from the environment. There was an acknowledgement that some parents desired a more traditional and stern atmosphere for their sons, one that included corporal punishment and toughness that most "gender equalitists" would cringe at. There was an acknowledgement that in order for a boy to become a man---yes, in the classic John Wayne sense---he had to have manly concerns and examples that are best presented in a male environment. Does that mean I don't respect women? No. Does that mean that I do not have an equal partnership in my marriage? No. Does that mean that I think women are different? YES! Emphatically. Women are different. Men are different. Gays, lesbians and bis are different, for a myriad of reasons, both social and biological. I shudder to think of a society that deals with these differences by trying to make everyone the same, because when we do that, we fail to embrace those differences.
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It seems to me the only argument anyone that's put forth in favor of a unisex school is that it's less stress. And the only reason it'd add stress is if you've got some kind of pre-existing issues. |
Not less stress, less distraction. My education was focused on a Christian, Catholic ideal. The motto of my school was "Age Quod Agis" which means "Men for others". I was being taught that to be a man meant to follow in Christ's path and to serve others in the male Catholic tradition.
I personally do not follow the Catholic faith anymore, chiefly due to its limited and backward relation to women. Surprise, surprise! But I did not sense that attitude in its theology or its educational system, more in its dogma.
In the process of going to this horribly archaic school, I managed to attend one of the most esteemed college prep instititutions in this country, one that has a remarkable academic record of achievement, as well as a very strong committment to the social causes that beset the world, not to mention an incredible and consistent placement of its students in the finest colleges and universities.
Last edited by SuperSneak on 07-08-2002 at 00:03
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperSneak
Asher, having attended both systems, I believe I speak from a position of experience unlike yourself. When you add up all the plusses and minuses, in the end, a single sex high school was a positive for me. |
You can't judge this based on a single person's experience. You'd be amazed how many gay porns take place in all boys schools, perhaps I should take that and apply it to everyone attending school like you did?
quote:
What you are failing to realize is that most teenage boys would rather not talk about their socialization issues (girls, home, peers, sports, class, et. al) in front of girls due to perceived weakness. Of course, we both know that girls will generally find this to be attractive, but your average teenage boy doesn't have that figured out yet. |
So you would actually suggest that boys will talk to boys about these problems because there's no girls around? You should read some of the books by William Pollack, he's a PhD in child psychology specializing in boys and has written a few books on the matter, and he'd strongly disagree with you.
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I guessed you missed the part about my intense studies on gender equality and women's issues? I have tons of credit hours in both topics and can probably run circles around you on that topic. Just because you're bi doesn't give you some divine birthright to claim superior knowledge of gender issues. I have a good deal more life experience than you do, namely, a very diverse upbringing that exposed me directly to many different cultures, races and genders. I am not saying that an all boy's school is the end all be all for everyone, merely that it has pros and cons for an individual. |
How does life experience or study on the issue change the fact that by separating boys and girls you're sending a message to the children that they are not equal? Surely in all of your indepth studies on the issue you wouldn't overlook something so patently obvious?
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The cons you site (i.e. an inability to connect with women) are fallacious...it's just not the case. |
Because for YOU it "didn't have any effect"? Must you be so naive to generalize everyone off of your shining success?
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That's just ridiculous. To some extent you have to put on a show...it's called courtship, brainiac. |
Not everybody has to resort to courtship. I've never, ever, done something like that because I personally find it degrading. I've had many people try it with me though.
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I have no idea what this is in response to in the first place...are you trying to tell me that there is equal attention to women placed in both all boy's and co-ed schools? If you are, you are sadly mistaken. Our focus was academics, not fashion and dating. Your lack of focus in academics is glaringly obvious. While I learned to debate and support a thesis, you obviously were checking out asses and perusing the latest Old Navy catalogue. |
What the hell are you talking about?
Aren't you the car salesman? 
Are you switching roles on me to try to make a point?
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There was no "segregation" in its classic sense. |
Um. Hello?
You're going to an all boys school and you're telling me there's no segregation?
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Does that mean I don't respect women? No. Does that mean that I do not have an equal partnership in my marriage? No. Does that mean that I think women are different? YES! Emphatically. Women are different. Men are different. Gays, lesbians and bis are different, for a myriad of reasons, both social and biological. I shudder to think of a society that deals with these differences by trying to make everyone the same, because when we do that, we fail to embrace those differences. |
So perhaps we should take it a step further and put all of the ethnic minorities in their own school as well, since they're different. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Kids wouldn't be affected negatively at all by segregating them into different groups by sex and ethnicity during school, right?
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Not less stress, less distraction. |
Hey, that's life for you. Women are in the workforce, they'll distract you. Women will be in school, they'll distract you to. Learn to deal with it. The best way to learn is through experience...
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06-08-2002 18:25
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