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NeoStar
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Sydney
Jul 2002
time: 15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Look on the bright side, NS, you've given us something with which to fill in the dull bit of the week - by which I mean, Sunday to Friday.  |
We need more controversy! You're starting the scare me though with this synchronised swimming stuff... 
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Good grief, man, just stop watching it! Which state are you in? If you're in NSW, you can watch the Sydney club games on the ABC on Saturday arvo. They're good fun.
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Of course Im in NSW - how else would I be so influenced by l****? Im not far from Parra so it's everywhere!
Sydney club games, eh? Im might just have a look if the times are right...
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
It's only about $12 a week depending on which channels you want. You should be aware, though, that they do show a sh*tload of the L-word. |
Im working on it. Should have by the end of the year. 
Now back to Union - what are the margins going to be, Finbar?
EDIT - Oops, you posted them above
quote:
The Boks are getting the points start |
good'o
Last edited by NeoStar on 16-08-2002 at 05:44
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by NeoStar
Of course Im in NSW - how else would I be so influenced by l****? Im not far from Parra so it's everywhere! |
Well, you could've been in ... Queensland. Sorry. That's the lowest blow of all.
quote:
Sydney club games, eh? Im might just have a look if the times are right... |
ABC TV, Saturday arvo, around 3pm. Jimmy Maxwell calls the games. It's real club rugby. Some inspired stuff in amongst some real clangers.
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Im working on it. Should have by the end of the year. |
Your only problem might be cabling. Foxtel and Optus were forced to stop rolling out their cables by some of the local councils. If it ain't in your street, you won't get it unless you opt for satellite.
quote:
Now back to Union - what are the margins going to be, Finbar? |
I've been giving it a lot of thought. In between worrying about Boris getting his own surname wrong. There's a lot to take into account:
1. We haven't won at Jo'burg since 1963, and there have been a few Wallaby teams better than this one in that losing lot;
2. I'm not really sure how much altitude will be a factor now that the sports medicine people have been doing their analyses. The theory used to be that you went to the altitude venue a week prior to the game and trained to acclimatise yourself. Now the sports medicine people say you can't acclimatise for such an energetic game as rugby within a week. Now they say it's more important to overcome the jetlag, train under normal conditions - in this case, at Durban - then head for the altitude the day before;
3. A lot depends on the Boks' attitude. They might come out as they did against the ABs and play rugby. They might come out as they did against us the first time and give away penalties wholesale. If the former, it could be a high-scoring game. The latter, and it's advantage Wallabies.
All up ... I'd give the Boks 6 1/2 points start.
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NeoStar
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Sydney
Jul 2002
time: 15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Well, you could've been in ... Queensland. Sorry. That's the lowest blow of all.
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It may not be the lowest. I met a bloke from Tasmania once ... bloody hell. All he had was a vague idea of cricket.
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
ABC TV, Saturday arvo, around 3pm. Jimmy Maxwell calls the games. It's real club rugby. Some inspired stuff in amongst some real clangers.
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Your only problem might be cabling. Foxtel and Optus were forced to stop rolling out their cables by some of the local councils. If it ain't in your street, you won't get it unless you opt for satellite.
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Nah - thats why Im planning. My area has recently got Foxtel, they were stuffing all these bloody leaflets into the mailbox. 
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
2. I'm not really sure how much altitude will be a factor now that the sports medicine people have been doing their analyses. The theory used to be that you went to the altitude venue a week prior to the game and trained to acclimatise yourself. Now the sports medicine people say you can't acclimatise for such an energetic game as rugby within a week. Now they say it's more important to overcome the jetlag, train under normal conditions - in this case, at Durban - then head for the altitude the day before;
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I really dont count on it being that bad. The differences are suttle and though the other team is more used to it they get effected too. Some of the things sports medicine people come up with are absolute jokes, but jetlag is an issue. 
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
3. A lot depends on the Boks' attitude. They might come out as they did against the ABs and play rugby. They might come out as they did against us the first time and give away penalties wholesale. If the former, it could be a high-scoring game. The latter, and it's advantage Wallabies.
All up ... I'd give the Boks 6 1/2 points start. |
That sounds right. Don't count on the Boks doing anything stupid - as I mentioned earlier they are fighting to prevent a whitewash and SA pride has been dented enough recently.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:21
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quote:
Hopefully I will have some idea of what youre talking about after seeing a couple of games |
Then again knowing me you may not still
Yes Kronfeld is still with the Tigers – one full left season on his contract with an option for one more I believe. If his ankles hold up I’m sure he’ll take the option.
quote:
I remember you said there is no semi-final or final though. Its whoever finishes at the top of the table who wins in this case, right |
Yes – basically. Finbars summary was pretty accurate – we have no provincial sides involved but City/Town clubs. Having said that there are S12 similarities. The Premiership is twelve teams and technically has one relegation spot. However the team coming up into it must pass exhaustive critieria and last season did not do so – so the twelve this year are the same twelve as last year.
A League stage takes place between September and May of 22 games (each side home and away) and the team that tops the table at the end of that are ‘League Champions’ and ‘English Champion club’ (plus 2nd seed status for Europe). Once the final table standings are known a separate S12 style elimination tournament starts between the top 8 (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 them semis and a final) for a separate trophy. Most sides treat this as a tertiary competition – the only major benefit it carries is top seeding for the European cup next season (unless like this year the trophy is retained by another English club as the holders get protected top seed status). The sponsors originally saw it as the S12 style primary competition but English fans revolted en masse – as I have previously mentioned we hold greater store in the league stage (so for us brumbies would not have deserved a shot at the title for being so inconsistent).
Spread across the season are the European competitions – the cup (essentially the premier competition) and shield (where any Premiership team not qualifying for the cup takes part). The European cup has grown into being the top trophy for all UK clubs, not just English. As Tamerlin will tell you it has been in UK hands since 1998.
Our points system in the Premiership matches S12 I think – 4 for a win, 2 for a draw, a bonus point for four or more tries and a bonus point for losing by seven or less?
You know, I can almost feel Finbar falling asleep… 
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the Aussie line out is showing good signs. |
Oh that’s a classic. Has this truly looked that strong without Eales and Giffen?
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They certainly have a chance of victory IMO. |
Well quite – and a very good chance too. Lets not fall into this trap of swallowing the Aussie hype – an unconvincing win over the Boks at home and an admittedly well ground out but narrow as hell sneak against the ABs does not instantly suggest they can bury the Boks away does it? Be honest?
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I can't imagine when they're going to schedule it with the ABs touring at the end of the year. |
February is again mooted – and apparently the Tigers boys are really keen. After all with Kronfeld, Back, Moody and Corry to draw on there’s a pretty good chance they will disrupt the link between Marshall and Merhtens?
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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quote:
Tamerlin will tell you it has been in UK hands since 1998 |
That is a very low blow. Considering UK makes about three teams in four in the competition, there is nothing extraordinary here. Considering the non-UK non-French clubs are Italian, and they never managed to get past the preliminary phase, well... Toulouse and Brive won the cup the first years. Probably Toulouse or Biarritz will make something out of that cup this year.
Now if you believe the description of the English championship is boring, be careful. I could try to find out the current French championship formula and impose it unto you all. I could also show what it was like one year ago, two years ago and three years ago so you could enjoy the differences. Basically last year there was a first phase which led to a second phase which led to direct elimination matches. Which means lots of matches for the clubs, particularly when you add up the European cup and whatever cups/challenges the clubs decide to play. I no longer hear about the Challenge Yves-du-Manoir, renamed France Cup, but it may still be around to ensure our players play enough matches in a season to get hurt at the end.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Given that no Scottish or Welsh side have ever won it, and that the Irish have to organise into provinces (just like S12) simply to compete I think it's fair to say the two power houses taking part are England and France? And at the moment English clubs seem to have the upper hand. |
In terms of clubs yes, but I think that Ireland organization in provinces makes a lot of sense. Considering their country size and scattered population, how many city/town clubs would thay have? I think the provinces stuff fits Ireland perfectly and one cannot dismiss them.
I also think our French and your English clubs draw from a region somehow. Toulouse for instance draws players from quite far, and has supporters in the whole region (about all the cities around it excpet Colomiers I would bet), the Biarritz Olympique has been renamed to encompass the Pays Basque in its name, and indeed draws players and supporters from the whole pays basque and Landes. I am quite sure that all Leicester fans don't live in Leicester but in all Leicestershire?
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
You know, I can almost feel Finbar falling asleep… |
Quite the contrary. How I wish we had the player numbers and grassroots support to have such a competition here.
quote:
Oh that’s a classic. Has this truly looked that strong without Eales and Giffen? |
I let that one pass. Our lineout this season has ranged from utterly incompetent - witness Jeremy Paul, in the return game, throwing it over the back and straight to the All Black who wandered across for a try - to competent. Admittedly, Nathan Sharpe has given it some security recently, but it's still nowhere near the class it needs to be. In fact, we've had more consistent success pinching the oppo's throw, but that's only an indication of the sh*thouse standard of lineouts in general, and throwing-in in particular, in the SH at the moment.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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Time's running out to get the bets on, guys. There's been no real discussion about margins. I reported earlier that the sports betting organisations have the Boks with starts ranging from 4 1/2 to 12 1/2. I think I suggested a 6 1/2 points start for the Boks - allowing for the Wallaby's desire to win the game, that we haven't won at Jo'burg for 39 years, et al.
So, just to get something on the table, does anyone have any argument with a 6 1/2 points start for the Boks?
Last edited by finbar on 17-08-2002 at 06:45
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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quote:
Our lineout this season has ranged from utterly incompetent - witness Jeremy Paul, in the return game, throwing it over the back and straight to the All Black who wandered across for a try - to competent. Admittedly, Nathan Sharpe has given it some security recently, but it's still nowhere near the class it needs to be. In fact, we've had more consistent success pinching the oppo's throw, but that's only an indication of the sh*thouse standard of lineouts in general, and throwing-in in particular, in the SH at the moment. |
Funny, I remember Australia's lineouts against France as being good. I am not sure the sh*t is limited to SH. But then, remember the days where you couldn't lift apartner with an opponent who was only half a meter away, when 50% win on own lineouts was commonplace... Things go better overall now, don't they?
[edited- I forgot a few sentences before- think faster than type]
6 1/2 points margin? Against the ABs that was 7 1/2. Does that mean everyone on this forum agrees Wallabies are weaker than ABs  ?
Anyway I'll bet 15 on the boks.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Being totally serious here it is in fact amazing that you maintain the S12 at a high standard given the situation on these fronts |
You got it right recently when you said the Wallabies have punched above their weight for years. Bear in mind, though, that 3 S12 teams (including reserves, train-on squad, etc) totals only about 75 or 80 players. OTOH, it's yet another example of Australia excelling in sport way beyond a standard you would expect from such a small population. Who knows why?
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(okay I know Kiwis are born with a rugby ball under their arm but that isn’t the case in Aus)? |
Nuh. Australian Rules footy, usually.
quote:
Also trying to be fair throwing seems to be a hemisphere spanning problem in the lineout at the moment - though most of us do not need to sneak onto the pitch like the AB hooker – but it was certainly the gift to the All Blacks that made me smile at that one. |
Jeremy Paul has terrific potential as a hooker. He's very mobile, he's got good handling skills, he's strong - but his throwing and his temperament both suck!
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I’m sure you realise that it is an aspect of the game you must get absolutely right against us? |
That's the point I was making to NeoStar.
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I have to question the point of it given the timing – Crusaders will be knackered, Tigers will be conscious they don’t want injuries. |
I'd be surprised if it happened. Money or no money.
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I’ll put 20 on the Boks please. Remember you bet with your heart not your head – or is it vice versa? |
I don't know what you've been using thus far, but I think it's time for a swap!
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Apolyton Time is 00:21. |
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16-08-2002 05:38
Still... wouldn't have minded seeing Owen Finegan or Justin Harrison taking a few swings at him 
Actually, I should say consistent effort. In most matches we get it right about half the time.
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