17-08-2002 14:00									#271
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Dudes, long time no speak.

40 gold on the Boks please!

I haven't caught up on the posts yet, but did notice Finbar's above summary. Caligasta betting on the Wallabies??? Finbar on the Boks??? What has happened to you guys?

Havak - managed to secure my ticket to the November NZ - England game yesterday. I've already begun to exercise my yelling chords...

	17-08-2002 14:04									#272
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btw - stick 50 of Mickeyj's gold on the boks. I'll inform him of his bet this afternoon. ;-)

	17-08-2002 15:40									#273
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'm thinking 1 000 000 Euros probably comes to more like 37.25 civ gold using current exchange rates.

All that for nothing !

	17-08-2002 17:42									#274
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Ah - The kiwis Caligastia and ravagon have realised their folly and turned to the side they secretly know rules world rugby

hahahaha...just for that I hope I lose my bet!

GO SPRINGBOKS!!!

	17-08-2002 17:54									#275
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YAWN Bloody hell, tis almost 11:00 over here - but Ive managed to stay awake!!!

Well the game is beginning - Caligastia, your backflip better not jinx this... Im logging off.

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR!!!

Australians all let us all ...... ah, stuff it

GO THE WALLABIES

	17-08-2002 20:14									#276
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Awesome, awesome game!!!

Springboks 33 d Wallabies 31

All Blacks win Tri-Nations!!!

The Wallabies get a taste of their own medicine by losing in the last minute. I really thought SA were done for after that last try by the Wallabies.

I thought it was a bit unfair that Sharpe was merely penalised for his punch while SA had a man sent off for the same thing in the second half. Also the red card at the end for the high tackle seemed a bit harsh.

SA let themselves down with a lack of discipline, but managed to scrape back at the last minute. Imagine what the margin would have been if they hadnt given away penalties and had men sent off.

	17-08-2002 22:44									#277
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Wow! Anyone who saw the game can post some more details of what happened?

	17-08-2002 23:12									#278
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Actually Caligastia I also thought Mr O'Brien was very wrong not to penalise Sharpe for blocking the tackler from Keifu just before the league boy took his try? I felt Skinstad was interfered with at the line out leading to their last try as well?

Still a cracking game to watch - I have never seen a side lose defensive shape the way the Boks did in the second half. And then the Wallabies did exactly the same in the closing seconds!

Still I have to give it to the Aussies - nobody punishes 14 men as well as them, I really thought they had done enough. And even my mate George Smith played better in the loose than I think I have ever seen him.

Roll on November I say!

	18-08-2002 01:46									#279
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I should have paid more attention to the stats...

This said, I never thought the Aussies could beat the Boks with enough points to win this Tri-Nations though I thought they would won this game.

	18-08-2002 06:05									#280
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We almost won ... almost...



The Game - as seen by NS

Thanks to several Springbok mistakes Australia managed to slot in three penalties. SA had the chance to draw with their own kicks - but none of them found the mark (Andre Pretorius was out just before). They then went on a scoring spree near the end of the 1st and the beginning of the 2nd. With a quarter of the game left it was 26 - 9 (and I was starting to get worried)

Note - Brent Russell is someone to look out for. Starting in his first test, he sparked a thrilling display from the Springbok backs, who ran in five tries against Australia's three.

The Wallabies then hit back hard with three tries in nine minutes. Flanker George Smith was brilliant at the breakdown, but the backs only started looking good when Mat Rogers came onto the field as a replacement. He was the only Australian three-quarter to be able to open up the Springbok defense.

When replacement hooker Brendon Cannon crashed over for a try with four minutes left -- taking the Wallabies into the lead for the first time since the 20th minute of the first half -- the Springboks looked beaten.

Typical late game Wallaby surge - they were on their way to winning but a missed conversion by Burke (for the last try) and a mistake near their own line with a minute or so left was the downfall. SA got their chance.

RULE IN RUGBY - the team attacking an opponents line (needing one try to win) before the hooter are odds on to win. Always. The Wallabies have done it themselves, so many times...

South Africa spent 20 minutes of the second half with just 14 men on the field, as De Wet Barry was sin-binned for a punch and then his center partner Marius Joubert was red-carded for his second high tackle of the match. This was a bit harsh - but note that a yellow card at the 71st minute is the same thing.

But the South Africans attacked relentlessly in a desperate attempt to avoid losing all their Tri-Nations matches for the first time in the competition and were rewarded when Greeff burst through the Australian defense to level the score.

Greeff, with the calm of Burke, slotted the conversion to secure victory and the crowd went crazy.



I was gutted - but the game was one of the best. Pity about the result, to be honest though the Springbok really deserved it.

This is why rugby at the top level can be the best international game fullstop!!!

Australia could almost won though. The boys put on the fireworks too late...

	18-08-2002 06:08									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog 40 gold on the Boks please!

I'll include your bet in the equation, AD, and Mickeyj's. I assume, of course, that had the bet not won, Mickeyj would have refused to pay up and charged you with theft.

	18-08-2002 06:33									#282
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After AndyDog's and Mickeyk's late bets, the Bank A/c read:

academia 92
Andydog 153-40 = 113
Caligastia 37-10 = 27
finbar 130-30 = 100
Havak 46-20 = 26
LDiCesares 104-15 = 89
Mickeyj 121-50 = 71
NeoStar 134-20 = 114
ravagon 114-20 = 94
Tamerlin 69-20 = 49

The updated pool stood at 225 Civ Gold.

The bets were placed as follows:

Boks

Andydog 40
finbar 30
Havak 20
LDiCesares 15
Mickeyj 50

Wallabies

Caligastia 10
NeoStar 20
ravagon 20
Tamerlin 20

And, with the Boks winning, the successful punters have collected as follows (rounded up or down if need be, and including your original stake):

Andydog 58
finbar 43.5
Havak 29
LDiCesares 22
Mickeyj 72.5

Thus our Bank A/c at the end of the Tri-Nations series (and, effectively, the SH international season) stands as follows:

academia 92
Andydog 171
Caligastia 27
finbar 143.5
Havak 55
LDiCesares 111
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 94
Tamerlin 49

Now, the interesting question is, what do we do with our fortunes? Those of us who have accumulated them! Do we invest them in some sort of gilt-edged security - I hear there's a t'riffic US telco called WorldCom that's booming, apparently - until the NH international season starts? Or do those of us who feel the urge punt on the NH club season?

	18-08-2002 07:48									#283
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And even my mate George Smith played better in the loose than I think I have ever seen him.

He's had a couple of very good Tri-Nations matches. Best on field in the Brisbane game. He's coming along very nicely, IMHO, learning all the time.

quote: Roll on November I say!

It's going to be a fascinating series of encounters.

It's hard to believe this is the same Boks team that struggled against the Pumas. Sure, they're now more experienced, but it's like they have an on-off switch. Their first 15 minutes last night resembled their first match against us - silly penalties, no cohesion. Then - pow! Then, in the last 20 minutes, the switch was turned off again.

It's to their credit that they pulled it off last night without Pretorius. While Russell is a very promising, very dangerous player, it was fairly evident that - via inexperience and enthusiasm - only he knew what was going on when he had ball in hand. His backs ran with him in hope.

Still, they're a very young, very inexperienced team, who will only - with the right guidance - get better and better. And thank God, because world rugby needs a strong Boks outfit. Without the mindless aggro and biffo, I have to say. Because, apart from anything else, they've proved they don't need it. They're a much, much better team without it.

As for the Wallabies - they worry me. Progress has been made through this season, but problems are continually exposed. Our big strong backs, basis of our attacking game, were caught out again last night by the Bok mosquito fleet who turned the defenders inside out. Sure, those wee Boks are going to worry a lot of defences, but our backs were exposed too often throughout the season. I fear we have too many eggs in the big, strong backs basket, and it's about time Matt Rogers started a game instead of coming on during the game when the side is looking for inspiration.

At least the Wallaby discipline was better last night, even taking the Nathan Sharpe punch into account. He was definitely of the view - as were others around him - that he'd been eye-gouged.

	18-08-2002 08:03									#284
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Awesome, awesome game!!!

I think the closeness - and the last 15 minutes in particular - made it so. Over all, I thought it was a scrappy match punctuated by some great rugby, and the Boks deserved to win because they played more good rugby than we did.

quote: The Wallabies get a taste of their own medicine by losing in the last minute.

I don't really have a problem with losing that way. It was bound to happen sometime. The stats on those sorts of finishes must now read something like 4 or 5:2 in the Wallabies' favour. That's going back as far as the Rob Andrew folly of a few years ago.

quote: I thought it was a bit unfair that Sharpe was merely penalised for his punch while SA had a man sent off for the same thing in the second half.

The Sharpe incident was interesting. It was evident that Sharpe - and others around him - were complaining about eye-gouging. I couldn't quite pick up what Paddy O'Brien was saying, but he could have been acknowledging the provocation. Which isn't a defence anyway.

quote: Also the red card at the end for the high tackle seemed a bit harsh.

It was the Boks' fourth or fifth high tackle, most of which could have been avoided. The ref made it very clear after the previous one that the next one would result in a send-off. Bad Bok discipline.

	18-08-2002 08:10									#285
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Awesome, awesome game!!! Springboks 33 d Wallabies 31 All Blacks win Tri-Nations!!!

Better than I could've put it.
Indeed an entertaining match. Well worth losing 20 gold over.
finbar what's going on? The first few matches you couldn't pick 'em to save your life and now you can't seem to miss.

quote: The Sharpe incident was interesting. It was evident that Sharpe - and others around him - were complaining about eye-gouging. I couldn't quite pick up what Paddy O'Brien was saying, but he could have been acknowledging the provocation. Which isn't a defence anyway.

I missed most of the after match post-mortem. Was there anything to the speculation that the Bok binned over the incident was bitten by the Wallaby?

	18-08-2002 10:30									#286
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon finbar what's going on? The first few matches you couldn't pick 'em to save your life and now you can't seem to miss.

I started betting with my head. Last night's match was always going to be a struggle for us. The Boks had proved through the TriNations series that - when they want to be - they can be very hard to contain. And, as it turned out, I don't think the altitude factor played any part in the game.

quote: I missed most of the after match post-mortem. Was there anything to the speculation that the Bok binned over the incident was bitten by the Wallaby?

Nothing came of either that or the eye-gouging speculation. I've only heard of two citings - the Bok skipper for giving George Smith a blood nose, and the Bok sent off for the high tackle.

	19-08-2002 01:24									#287
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I finally saw a few images of the match and a few comments. It seems to have been a pretty interesting match, but the French TV talked about bad behaviour from the bok supporters like throwing cans on the wallaby players. Was it so? Are South Africans becoming that silly? Or is it just Salviac (the journalist) who is making a lot of noise for the pleasure of hearing his own voice?

	19-08-2002 02:11									#288
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I can't talk about the match itself because I have not seen it nor have I had the time to look at any image on TV.

I have read an article in a newspaper which indicates Finbar's comments and yours about the quality of the game are right (see previous post) but the article is not mentioning any bad action from the supporters.

	19-08-2002 04:55									#289
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Bottles were thrown onto the field at the Wallaby players after the Brendan Cannon try that took the Wallabies into the lead in the 75th minute. The Bok administrators deny it happened but it did. The replay after the try shows at least two bottles flying through the air and narrowly missing a couple of Wallaby players. The players say they counted four bottles. George Gregan probably didn't help matters with his enthusiastic celebration after the try was scored. The crowd could be said to have been reacting to his celebration.

Regardless, it's not good enough. The ACT Brumbies came close to walking off Ellis Park last year when they were pelted with objects during a S-12 match. The Bok administrators are going to have to come up with some sort of strategy to control their crowds or they run the risk of losing big matches at their grounds.

On the lighter side - a truce has been called between Ben Tune and Bok skipper Corne Krige. In the first Wallaby-Bok match, Tune belted Krige and split his eyebrow. In Saturday night's match, Krige belted Tune and drew blood. When Tune reappeared on the field with his head bandaged, he called out to Krige: "Can we call it quits now?". Krige called back: "Perfect!". So the score stands at one-all, and everyone's happy.

PS. The two Bok players cited after the match - Krige for punching George Smith, and Joubert for the high tackle that earned the red card - were both cleared by the judiciary.

	19-08-2002 08:33									#290
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The Wallabies will not cut it...

That Ellis Park game was tough - but the Wallabies performance was just not good enough. SA may have been the 'weakest' Tri Nations team but they cut us to pieces with their fast men.

Why Rogers wasn't allowed on earlier is left for anyone to guess. The usual inspirations: Burke, Mortlock and Latham never really fired and a run from Gregan these days is rare to see.

Eddie Jones has alot of work to do or the World Cup is in real danger of falling into another nations hands. I read an article in the paper calling for the need for backs like Darren Lockyer, Brett Kimmorley and Andrew Johns for the Wallabies and I agree.

The kicking of Johns (the best rugby player in the world) with his precsion, bombs and banana kicks would imporve the Wallabies immensely. With him at five-eighth with Kimmorley at halfback utilising the talent around them and they would deadset unstoppable.

The Wallabies need something of an overhaul before the World Cup, but the good news is that they have the time to do it

	19-08-2002 09:53									#291
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar I read an article in the paper calling for the need for backs like Darren Lockyer, Brett Kimmorley and Andrew Johns for the Wallabies and I agree.

With the utmost respect - twaddle! The Wallaby halves are the least of the problems between now and the World Cup. Post-World Cup, when both Gregan and Larkham head off to top up their superannuation in the NH - and, given their sterling service, I wouldn't begrudge them in the slightest - it will be a different story. Matt Rogers is already being groomed for the 5/8 spot, so the search will be on - well, it's already underway - for a replacement halfback. Our fundamental problem is - as it has been since time immemorial - a lack of quality depth, meaning our options are always relatively limited.

	19-08-2002 10:12									#292
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The Wallaby halves are the least of the problems between now and the World Cup.

C'mon - what is Finbar on at the moment? Larkham's kicking game needs desperate help, he doesn't hit the line as hard as he used to and I can detect a lack of confidence in him (note the way he kept kicking away possession in the 1st half). As for Gregan - the ball's a hot potato, he passes it and never attempts to run the ball himself anymore like in the past (and he was good). Our wingers and centres are plain uninspired at times but I'll admit Tune was under outside pressures.

quote: Originally posted by finbar Matt Rogers is already being groomed for the 5/8 spot, so the search will be on - well, it's already underway - for a replacement halfback.

Matty is a great player - dont get me wrong, but there is a reaon he wasn't put to five-eighth during his years at Cronulla (and he wanted it). While his goal kicking is great his on field kicking game is not up to the standard the Wallabies need - however I wouldn't put the challange past him to get it right (but a specialist would be preferred - imagine Johns at the helm!). Our forwards are tip top in comparison. The Wallabies are dying with their backs!

quote: Originally posted by finbar Our fundamental problem is - as it has been since time immemorial - a lack of quality depth, meaning our options are always relatively limited.

That is too broad and undefined, dammit!

	19-08-2002 10:17									#293
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quote: Originally posted by finbar George Gregan probably didn't help matters with his enthusiastic celebration after the try was scored. The crowd could be said to have been reacting to his celebration.

I saw that in the highlights last night and lost all of the respect I'd gained for him over the past few weeks. In game it looked like he was just celebrating (prematurely as we now know ), but on closer inspection it did look as though it was a goad aimed directly at the crowd/cameras. Did the bottle-throwing begin just afterwards? Again I missed most of this due to poorly-timed (or well-timed if you look at it that way ) ad-breaks.
A similar thing happened in the WI during last (?) seasons cricket (AFAIK the mention of cricket has not yet been outlawed by the R-TGTPIH disciplinary committee ) tour when certain members of the Australian team began acting as though they were playing in front of their own crowds. ie: Acting like jackasses. That may be a little strong perhaps but you get the point.
At home they can afford to do this. Away they can't.
When will some people learn?

	19-08-2002 11:27									#294
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Larkham's kicking game needs desperate help, he doesn't hit the line as hard as he used to and I can detect a lack of confidence in him (note the way he kept kicking away possession in the 1st half).

Larkham's kicking his fine. His problem on Saturday night was that he was smashed in a late tackle - yet again - in the first couple of minutes. He got to his feet in cuckoo land and I think it took him quite a while to recover. It's a tactic that just about every team uses on him these days.

quote: As for Gregan - the ball's a hot potato, he passes it and never attempts to run the ball himself anymore like in the past (and he was good).

Gregan probably doesn't kick as often as he should sometimes. It's funny - I remember when he was criticised for kicking too much.

quote: Our wingers and centres are plain uninspired at times but I'll admit Tune was under outside pressures.

If you can't get and control the ball - which was the Wallaby's problem for too much of Saturday night's match - the backs become redundant. When they do get and control the ball - as in the last 20 minutes on Saturday night, as in a lot of the return match against the ABs, as in most of the first match against the Boks - the Wallabies are a powerful, creative attacking team.

quote: While his goal kicking is great his on field kicking game is not up to the standard the Wallabies need - however I wouldn't put the challange past him to get it right (but a specialist would be preferred - imagine Johns at the helm!).

I suspect he's intelligent and capable enough to muster a kicking game that will suffice. In fact, most of his kicking in his time on the field thus far has been perfectly adequate.

quote: Our forwards are tip top in comparison. The Wallabies are dying with their backs!

Obviously we're not watching the same team. IMHO, the forwards are steadily improving, but yet to be tested against the quality forward packs in world rugby (having played only one match against the French with anything like a first-choice pack); while there's absolutely nothing wrong with the backs - their problems (that I referred to yesterday) with countering quicker, more agile attackers aside - when they actually get their hands on the ball.

quote: That is too broad and undefined, dammit!

No it's not. It's the fundamental problem that has haunted the Wallabies for decades. Our relatively small pool of top-class players has always meant that we don't have more than a couple of choices per position. Sometimes we only have once choice. The key to this paragraph being the words "top-class".

	19-08-2002 11:41									#295
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I saw that in the highlights last night and lost all of the respect I'd gained for him over the past few weeks. In game it looked like he was just celebrating (prematurely as we now know ), but on closer inspection it did look as though it was a goad aimed directly at the crowd/cameras. Did the bottle-throwing begin just afterwards? Again I missed most of this due to poorly-timed (or well-timed if you look at it that way ) ad-breaks.

It struck me as provocative when I saw it during the game. Yes, the bottles started straight afterwards. There's fault on both sides.

quote: A similar thing happened in the WI during last (?) seasons cricket (AFAIK the mention of cricket has not yet been outlawed by the R-TGTPIH disciplinary committee ) tour when certain members of the Australian team began acting as though they were playing in front of their own crowds. ie: Acting like jackasses. That may be a little strong perhaps but you get the point. At home they can afford to do this. Away they can't.

No, cricket hasn't been outlawed. It is, after all, unlike the L-word, a game that takes some intelligence to play. So it's probably fair to say that cricket can be mentioned but only if to illustrate or counterpoint or whatever something to do with rugby.

I don't recall the W.I. incident to which you refer. But the Australian XI is legendary for its arrogance. Nothing would surprise me. Frankly, I don't think George's outburst was necessarily arrogance - while he can be terribly arrogant - I think it was more a spur of the moment reaction to an extraordinary situation (the comeback) in a massively-charged atmosphere. Again, there was fault on both sides.

	19-08-2002 11:49									#296
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Is this game played with paddles and nets?

	19-08-2002 12:02									#297
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And so the door is opened....

I thought you were tempting fate last time fin, what with all those comments about cheese and "thank god he doesn't post here" and all that...

	19-08-2002 12:04									#298
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quote: Originally posted by SuperSneak Is this game played with paddles and nets?

Blasphemy!
Actually it isn't played with paddles and nets but then you yanks haven't really gotten your paws on it yet either ...

	19-08-2002 12:09									#299
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A small piece of advice, ravagon, if I may be so bold. When dealing with dribbling idiots, I find it best simply to ignore them. They soon get bored, wander off and annoy someone else.

	19-08-2002 12:17									#300
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Wait, I remember...this was the one where the big controversey last year was over whether you were allowed to stick your thumb in someone's butthole, right?
Has that move been cleared yet?