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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
No one's saying any such thing. However, non-blacks act no different under the same circumstances. |
Surely there are more whites than blacks living in poor conditions in the US, whites being the majority.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Blacks tend to also live in urban areas, which disproportionately increases blacks' crime rates... |
Are there more blacks living in urban areas than whites? Not from what I have seen here in NYC.
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Bereta_Eder
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well if you look at rock music it's not full of "family values" either
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara This doesn't really exist. Most Black music has nothing to do with violence, and the music that does glorify violence is produced largely for a white audience. The acceptance of children born out of wedlock is another myth. Whites are more likely to have children out of wedlock than Blacks as a percentage of their own groups, and not just sheer numbers. However, because Black poverty is concentrated and white poverty is not, it makes it much easier to stereotype this as being a Black problem. |
Che: There is no question that large numbers of whites listen to rap music as well but as a percentage of youth population I would guess (no evidence to support this though) per capita there are more young black males then young white males listening. Establishing case and effect, as in listening to violent media causes violent behavior, is much more iffy. There have been well publised studies that went both ways depending on who funded the research so we really can't make any solid determination there.
Out of wed-lock births and single parent families is very well documented by the government census though. Here is a few stats from the U.S. Census web site. Illegitimate births by race: White 16.9%, Asian 8%, Black 66.7%, Hispanic 36.7%. I'm not posting this to promote racism instead I'm hoping we can have a frank conversation about the origins of poverty and violence. Violence and poverty are interlinked and single-parent families are a great way to propetuate poverty.
Last edited by Oerdin on 14-08-2002 at 08:56
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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A significant reason for the high level of crime within black communities is that for years it was never addressed mainly because of attitudes like Sonic. If someone acknowledge the high crime rate, there would be whites who would go "ahah, blacks are violent criminals.'
IIRC, in recent years, the black leaders in the US have started addressing the problem of violence within their community, the first step being acknowledging that there is a problem.
Violence has declined. The murder rate among blacks fell by 50 per cent (from 50 per 100,000 to about 25 per 100,000) between 1990 and 1999.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Surely there are more whites than blacks living in poor conditions in the US, whites being the majority. |
Poor whites are probably the ones committing half the murders in the US.
While there are more whites living in poverty, I suspect that more blacks are living in poverty as percentage of a racial population, hence the high murder rate in the black community.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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I agree that culture plays a role. The recent efforts to address the problem of violence in the black community is an attempt to change the culture.
Poverty also plays a role, and I suspect a large role. People who are poor have less to lose so jail terms do not act as a deterent. As well, education levels among the poor are lower and the less educated are probably more likely to commit violent crimes. However, this is only a gut feeling on my part. I don't have any facts to back it up.
Poverty rates could also affect the murder rate statistics.
Let's assume that among poor people the murder rate is 20 per 100,000 and for others 1 in 100,000. And lets say that the poverty rate among blacks is 50 per cent and among whites 10 per cent. Then assume there are 2 million whites and 200,000 blacks (since blacks make up about 15 per cent of the US population).
That would mean for blacks you have 21 murders (20 +1). For whites, it would 38 murders (40+18). But on a 100,000 ratio, it would be blacks 10.5 (21/2)and whites 2.9 (58/20).
So the higher poverty rate among blacks could, and I stress could, explain the higher murder rate.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by moomin
Would you hazard a guess as to why the levels of violent crime is in the order of two magnitudes lower in Sweden than in the USA, remebering that Swedes as a group are now poorer than American blacks? If poverty had anything to do with it, we'd be Washington DC. |
There are a lot of factors that cause violent crime, such as culture, poverty levels, access to weapons. In my previous post I stressed that poverty COULD explain the higher murder rate among blacks.
I would question whether household incomes for Black Americans is higher than household incomes in Sweden, as you claim. Do you have any stats that shows this to be true? Do the stats compare purchasing power?
We still have to consider that the poverty rate for Black Americans is about 20 per cent vs. 6.4 per cent in Sweden
See: http://www.ccsd.ca/pubs/2002/olympic/olympics2.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/income.html
I don't know if the poverty rates can be compared. The definition of poverty may be different.
It is probably fair to assume that Sweden has a stronger social net than the US. That may have an influence on violent crimes.
Access to guns is another factor.
And culture plays a big role, as others have mentioned on this thread.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Sweden has a very low immigration rate. There have been several studies which showed young men commite most violent crimes but the subset of young men who aren't married and who don't live near family members or people who know their family members have the highest violent crime rates.
So you have in the US you have a larger group of people who are, statistically, more likely then average to commite violent crime and then you compound it with the fact that many of them don't know the language, the culture, and have limited social support mechanisms availible to them. Top it off by giving them easy access to guns and you can see a few of the reasons for the difference in crime rates. |
Do you have a point here? Are immigrants to blame for the U.S. crime rate? That seems to be what you are saying but it doesn't make a lot of sense in regard to Moomin's point that poverty is not a very good reason for the African American crime stats. Btw, the vast majority of African Americans are not immigrants, but have longer family roots in the U.S. on average than whites.
Secondly, what the hell do guns have to do with crime rates? Do guns decide to rob people, or get even over a perceived slight? They have only one negative effect in that they increase the homicide rate as assaults tend to become deadlier. One small benefit however is that they also tend to get criminals killed or put into prison for life, which results in a decrease in other crimes.
Culture is what drives these differences between nations and groups. Other factors can aggravate things, but usually only in relative terms rather than absolute terms, and none are as important as culture in the case of the U.S. which has not seen serious economic distress in 60 years.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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The problem with this theory is that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes.
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13-08-2002 21:14
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