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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
I contend if it happened more then a hundred years ago then "returning" the land to its previous owners is just as fraudulent as the original comfiscation. |
What a convenient cut-off date. I suppose that 50 years ago your cut-off date would have been 50 years.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:21
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A new little twist which I read in the Calgary Herald but was not reproduced in their online version
Apparently their country is in debt to Libya for a lot of oil and Libya provides something like 80% of their supply. Khaddaffi has supposedly given them a cheaper price on oil in return for an interest in a bunch of Zimbabwe enterprises including their national bank. " Sources" say that thousands of these confiscated acres of farmland will actually go to Khaddaffi as payment for oil.
The herald also ran stories on how government supporters get feed while the opposition starves. Ais agencies have had to set up their own storage and distribution systems as the government system gives nothing to opposition regions
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:21
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I saw another story that some Zimbabwe court has ruled that the government cannot confiscate a certain farmer's land as it is mortgaged and there was not proper notice by the government to the bank involved. The story went on to say that this ruling could delay the expropriation considerably since the vast majority of farms are mortgaged. Apparently the government had yet to take any action to address the ruling
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
"Mugabe's a ****ing twit, and is running the country into the ground. We can always hope that some enterprising young man will find a way to place a bullet in his brain. Despite all this, land redistribution is quite justified in the case of large owners (most of whom owe their wealth directly to the colonialist system)."
A bullet is unneeded. Mugabe is a carcass anyway.
But other than that, I agree with you. Zimbabwe was robbed of so much in colonialism. |
hi ,
he is a low live , but imagine that when he is gone , someone "lower" comes to the scene , .....
where are the days of the Selous , ......
and the days after it , before our low guy , when black and white made something out of that country , ....
have a nice day
edit ; typo
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Carver
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reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:21
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To David Floyd and the other neo-nazis:
In every nation I can think of it is illegal to recieve or purchase stolen property. Thus, not only are the original white thieves of the land guilty but the second gerantion is guilty for buying or recieving the property and the third, etc. The white landowners who puchased thier property after 1980 are not being touched.
David when exactly did South Africa turn into a shithole, its been a shithole for hundreds of years for the blacks, the majority of the population you know. If anything South Africa turned into a shithole when the Boers began arriving. The whites have killed, raped and stolen from the blacks there with impunity for hundreds of years. So if your definition of shithole is "nolonger a playground for good ol white boys" then yes, its now a shithole for you and your ilk.
To those who say recolonize the continent: Belgium's rule over the Congo killed half the population, and you want us to bring back that? Neo-colonialism has already been tried ( and is still being used) in places. Mobutu in Zaire/DRC was little more than a CIA/French employee as he plundered the country and allowed the state to all but collapse. But when Mobutu was threatened by rebels in 1977 & 78 the US and France, of course, still came to his defence with weapons and mercenaries.
No, neo-colonialism would be a disaster. There are plenty of bright spots in Africa, you right wingers just don't know about them becuase you don't know anything about Africa other than starvation and HIV. Tanzania, Zambia, Mozambique, Ghana, Gabon, Senegal, Cameroon and I would include Kenya, are all examples of relatively good governments making economic progress. There's a lot right with Africa.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver
To David Floyd and the other neo-nazis:
In every nation I can think of it is illegal to recieve or purchase stolen property. Thus, not only are the original white thieves of the land guilty but the second gerantion is guilty for buying or recieving the property and the third, etc. The white landowners who puchased thier property after 1980 are not being touched. |
hi ,
sorry , but that is not what what shown today on bbc world , ......
there a guy who bought land and a farm , one in 1989 , and one in 1993 , is being put out of his house , .......
btw , could you please not use some "personal" insults , we are all adults here , no need to call some people "n-n", thanks
have a nice day / night
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Carver
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reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by panag
hi ,
sorry , but that is not what what shown today on bbc world , ......
there a guy who bought land and a farm , one in 1989 , and one in 1993 , is being put out of his house , ....... |
But was it stolen property when he purchased it?
quote:
btw , could you please not use some "personal" insults , we are all adults here , no need to call some people "n-n", thanks
have a nice day / night |
That comment was mostly directed at David. I certainly wasn't referring to you. Sorry for the confusion.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver
You seem like you know the Israeli military. Are you going to honestly deny the intense and well documented Israeli/South African military cooperation. The IAI Kfir and Atlas Cheetah are basically the same plane. They're both upgraded versions of the Mirage 3. It is well known that Israel and South Africa developed nuclear weapons together and conducted a joint test off of a South African island in the Indian Ocean. |
hi ,
bump , ....
there was no blast , its just a rumour , .....
even greenpeace confirmed it , when they took soil samples , .....
gues you never heard about wouter bason and the belgian link , and mugabe neither , .....
and actually the SA did very good on their upgrades , they where and are not stupid , ....afterall it aint hard , you just take the part you need , and make it , ....any country with an engineer in metals can do it , .....the rest was feedback from their pilots , ...
have a nice night 
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Sonic
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Dec 2001
time: 07:21
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I am already seeing messages claiming that I am neo-nazi 
I don't know why but it is true that blacks can't govern countries efficiently. There is no rich country ruled by blacks anywhere in the world. Some of African countries were rich under white, colonial rule and now virtually all of them are economically destroyed. In South Africa when whites were kicked out of power everything also just got worse. In north Africa, where whiter people are living situation is a bit better. You can say it's all not because the race, but because of distance from equator (climate), but it also won't be true because some South American countries are on/near equator and yet they are living better than black Africa countries. Also, don't say Africa is bad because whites were occupied it. WHites were also occupied Asia, where Asians lives, but look now to for example Singapore. When British troops left, Ghana's GNP per capita was larger than Singapore's for example. Compare those GNPs now. Again, I am not saying all white-controlled and Asian-controlled countries are good. I am however saying all black countries are bad (say an example of goodly managed black country instead of calling me neo-nazi please). History also proves my words. There were huge empires with huge influence in Europe (British, French, Spanish, Dutch), Asia (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian), Middle East (Israeli, Arab, Persian, Messopotamian), North (white) Africa (Egypt). But there were no such empires in Africa (I know Zululand but they did almost no influence and they conquered people around them only because those people were also in the same technology level as Zulus themselves). The case is by the way not only with blacks, but also (for a lower extent) with native Americans (Aztec, Mayan, Incan empires - all were great, but easily defeated by Europeans) and Australian Aborigenoes. So, I think races are equal only on paper. In fact they differs much. You can say empires didn't evolved in America, Australia and Africa because there were not much competition, but there were no competition in Europe and Asia at first also. But here empires did evolved. Also, blacks even in first world countries, like USA, are ussually living poorer than whites, even if everything is equal here, even blacks are sometimes prefered over whites to work only to meet racial balance not because of qualities, also public schools funded by budget are mostly full of blacks (98% of students at some public schools in USA are black for example). White kids ussually goes to private schools. Also, blacks does much more crimes than whites in USA (I had official statistics somewhere, I don't remember quite correctly now but it seems blacks does about 70% rapes and murders for example, even if black population percent in USA is quite low)
BTW, no I don't hate blacks all things I said before were based on facts. I however agree that whites made a mistake by conquering Africa (and later estabilishing nonsensional border between colonies, which aren't borders between ethnical groups. This move made most of curent African countries to go to civil wars), but I don't think it should be repaid by aids and also Africa shouldn't be reconquered, this is quite stupid. I think the best think we can do to Africa is to let them go back to their own life. This means cutting them from all aid (except maybe for some good-managed democratic countries) because in totalitarian regimes most of aid still goes to military. Also we shouldn't limit them.
OK, I am now ready to take flames
Regards,
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Carver
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reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Jan 2002
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
I don't know why but it is true that blacks can't govern countries efficiently. There is no rich country ruled by blacks anywhere in the world. Some of African countries were rich under white, colonial rule and now virtually all of them are economically destroyed. |
What? No. they were never what we would call rich.
quote:
In South Africa when whites were kicked out of power everything also just got worse. |
What got worse? All of the problems you hear about were there during apartheid they just didn't effect the whites much and the apartheid gov't impeaded the foreign press from covering conditions in the black areas.
quote:
I am however saying all black countries are bad (say an example of goodly managed black country instead of calling me neo-nazi please). |
Your ignorance betrays you. I already have but... Ghana and Uganda have been the darlings of the IMF and World Bank for more than a decade. Mozambique is a democracy experiencing 8-15% economic growth in recent years. Botswana has never veered from democracy and has recorded solid economic growth since independence in the 60s. Kenya, Gabon, Cameroon, Senegal all have good good governments making economic progress. The Bahamas and Jamaica are both well governed.
quote:
But there were no such empires in Africa (I know Zululand but they did almost no influence and they conquered people around them only because those people were also in the same technology level as Zulus themselves). |
The Zulu were amongst the least of African empires. Ghana, Mali and Songhai in west Africa were quite powerful and rich (enough to effect gold prices in the middle east). Ethiopia has a long and proud history, its one of the oldest countries in the world. The Hausa city states, the military campaigns of Usman dan Fodio, Monomutapa, the Benin Empire, Kongo...
quote:
even blacks are sometimes prefered over whites to work only to meet racial balance |
and sometimes they're just better
quote:
This means cutting them from all aid (except maybe for some good-managed democratic countries) because in totalitarian regimes most of aid still goes to military. |
What, do you think western nations give aid to be nice. The US has given aid to prop up governments that were anti-communist, regardless of what their internal policies were. France gives aid to prop up regimes that allow French companies free access to African natural resources.
You obviously know nothing of Africa other than famine and HIV. Learn what you're talking about before you post.
P.S. What friggin "aid" does Lithuania send to Africa?
Last edited by Carver on 11-08-2002 at 09:55
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moomin
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Moo Like In Moomin
Jul 2000
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Carver
In every nation I can think of it is illegal to recieve or purchase stolen property. Thus, not only are the original white thieves of the land guilty but the second gerantion is guilty for buying or recieving the property and the third, etc. The white landowners who puchased thier property after 1980 are not being touched.
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Great! Now that we have established this principle, I'm sure you'll agree we need to kick out all the black thieves who have stolen welfare money from European taxpayers. Back to Africa with all of them, and their kids (since you've established that sins of the fathers should be visited on the children as well). Any blacks who legitimately came to Europe and paid their own way by work without ever recieving any welfare money can stay, of course.
You know, somehow it's uncanny how you've managed to align yourself with the very neo-nazi you decry on this issue. Must be a freaking co-incidence.
Last edited by moomin on 12-08-2002 at 01:58
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
The case is by the way not only with blacks, but also (for a lower extent) with native Americans (Aztec, Mayan, Incan empires - all were great, but easily defeated by Europeans) and Australian Aborigenoes. |
The technological disparities between Eurasia and sub-Saharan Africa, the Americas, or Australia can easily be explained by the large delay the latter areas had in getting comparable amounts and quality of domesticatable plants and animals, the fundamental elements of civilization.
If you look at the world 4000 years ago, the major areas of civilization were in the Indus, the Nile, and the Tigris and Euphrates. Europe, comparably, was a total economic backwater. Does this imply that Europeans are inferior to Indians, Egytians, or Mesopatamians?
quote:
Also, blacks even in first world countries, like USA, are ussually living poorer than whites |
Of course this possibly cannot be attributed to racism or societal handicaps (for instance, the tendency of blacks to have more children than whites), since that would conflict with your idiotic bigotted views.
quote:
also public schools funded by budget are mostly full of blacks (98% of students at some public schools in USA are black for example). White kids ussually goes to private schools. Also, blacks does much more crimes than whites in USA |
Gee, I wonder if this might not be due to the economic disparities. 
quote:
(I had official statistics somewhere, I don't remember quite correctly now but it seems blacks does about 70% rapes and murders for example, even if black population percent in USA is quite low) |
Where did you get these "official" statistics? From David Duke's web site? This statistic is qute clearly full of crap.
quote:
BTW, no I don't hate blacks all things I said before were based on facts. |
quote:
but I don't think it should be repaid by aids |
What aids? Whatever miniscule aids actually going to the African people are negated by trade barriers and subsidies (particularly agricultural) from developed nations, and then some.
quote:
The Zulu were amongst the least of African empires. Ghana, Mali and Songhai in west Africa were quite powerful and rich (enough to effect gold prices in the middle east). Ethiopia has a long and proud history, its one of the oldest countries in the world. The Hausa city states, the military campaigns of Usman dan Fodio, Monomutapa, the Benin Empire, Kongo... |
You forgot the Ashanti, Dahomey, and Zanj. 
quote:
Great! Now that we have established this principle, I'm sure you'll agree we need to kick out all the blacks thieves who have stolen welfare money from European taxpayers. Back to Africa with all of them, and their kids (since you've established that sins of the father's should be visited on the children as well). Any blacks who legitimately came to Europe and payed their own way by work without ever recieving any welfare money can stay, of course. |
Surely you can see the distinction between redistributing stolen lands that virutally make a person a feudal lord, and deporting welfare recipients.
Not to say I agree with Mugabe's policies, but the principle of land reform in Zimbabwe is perfectly valid.
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09-08-2002 18:21
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