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Bas
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Out of step
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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CS: Like I said, because you keep on making the same arguments without even trying to refute the other explanations.
And ships are actually probably the best way of transporting those stones, and yes, you do need good ships, but I don't doubt that the Egyptians had good ships. The Nile was the most important transport route for them, after all. Other methods, like JohnT and I said, would work as well. Not very fast and very easily, mind you, but it would work. And if you don't think that's sufficient, why shouldn't it work?
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
- The city Tiahuanaca in the Andes, South America, has buildings with stones with a weight of 60tons, placed on 100tons weighting standstone blocks. The stones seem to be polished with a huge plane.
These stones appear to be created in the stonepit of Tiahuanacu, 350 km away!!
- The old city Ollantaytambo in Peru contains some 3,5-5 meters height stones, which were created in a stonepit 11 km from the place they are right now.
- The fort fort van Sacsehuaman in Peru is surrounded by a 20 meters high wall, containing some stones heavier than 200ton! From a piece a granite, height 11 meters, width 18 meters that seems to be cutted out of the rock, a perfect squared piece was cutted out of it.
- In Chili, on the height of El Enladrillado, 233 stones size 5 by 7 and 5 by 10 meters are arranged like an amphitheatre. The stones are very polished. The stones must have come from the valley, since there's no natural stone source on the height.
- In Costa Rica, in the jungle, perfect balls were found with a diameter of 2,5 meters. The weight of the heaviest one is 16 ton. There has been found no place where these balls could be created. Pherhaps these balls are scale-models of the planets in our solar system.
- North, in the living area of the Olmeken are giant heads, some have a diameter of 5,5 meters. The local people have tried to move them, but never succeeded. To not even talk about transporting them. The heads do not look alike the race of the current civilians. |
You know, Cyber, this post (by you) should really answer all your questions:
Moving heavy stones was not only possible but common.
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary
Just a question. Has anyone who has faith that building a pyramid is a achievable task for the ancient Egyptians actually succeeded in putting their theories to the test and creating one ? Or is it all based on faith ? Getting them top layers in must have required some ingenuity. |
In 1995, a groups of scientists and engineers built a replica 1/10 the size of the Great Pyramid. They only used primitive tools and several hundred Egyptian volunteers. The project was completed after 3 weeks. So biggest problem they faced was not moving heavy stones and carrying them up the pyramid, but how to setting the headstone of the pyramid.
There is also a new science called Experimental Archeology that has gained favor in last few years. Instead of theorizing and fantasizing about building something, archeologists would work together with civil engineers and architects to actually build the monument. Other examples include sections of Roman Amphitheaters, moving and errecting unfinished statues on Eastern Island, and painting more drawings on the Nazca plain.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
[threadjack]
Boris, what do you think of Mozart?
[/threadjack] |
His operas are great (even the ones with terrible plots, like Idomeneo, Seraglio and Cosi fan Tutti are saved by stellar music), as are his later symphonies. His chamber works and other orchestral works can vary from tediously boring to great, it depends on how much of his heart was in it for that particular work.
He's not my favorite, but I certainly love many of his works (Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro, and Die Zauberflote are enough to secure him a spot near the top of the list).
Um, resume pyramidal discussion...
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary
That 1/10 size thing sounds interesting. Any links / reports ?
As for the ramp. Hmmm. That sounds at least as difficult as the pyramid itself. All that material. Not so sure about that one. |
History Channel once showed several programs about Experimental Archeology. Building the 1/10 replica of the pyramid was one of them. Sometimes it's amazing to see what only a dozen people can accomplish.
I also saw the same story in another book called "Ancient Mysteries".
Unfortunately, I don't have a link yet.
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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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Pyramids are common in the ancient world exactly because they are so easy to build. If you want a monument to make an impact, it must be tall. Towers are very complicated, and prone to collapse. Monolithic structures are limited by the size of the stone. Pyramids, however, are stable, durable, and simple. Furthermore, they can be built to incredible sizes because the weight of the stones above is supported by a larger number of stones below.
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Lord Merciless
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This is one interesting article in the Scientific American:
quote:
April 06, 1998
Ancient Alignments
A stone circle in Egypt is the world's oldest astronomical observatory
By Alan Hall
Long before the pyramids were constructed in Egypt, ancient people there built elaborate structures aligned to the sun and stars. The standing megaliths and ring of stones were erected
from 6.700 to 7,000 years ago in the southern Sahara desert. They are the oldest dated astronomical alignment discovered so far and bear a striking resemblance to Stonehenge and
other megalithic sites constructed a millennium later in England, Brittany, and Europe.
The site, near Nabta in the Nubian desert, was discovered several years ago by a team led by Southern Methodist University anthropology professor Fred Wendorf. It consists of a small
stone circle, a series of flat, tomb-like stone structures (containing the bones of cattle) and five lines of standing and toppled megaliths. The stone slabs, some of which are nine
feet-high, were dragged to the site from an exposed outcrop of sandstone a mile or more away from the site. Each is embedded in the soil on top of a shaped table rock Last year,
archaeoastronomer J. McKim Malville of the Department of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences at the University of Colorado and his colleagues conducted a survey using a global
positioning satellite that confirms the stones' alignment north-south, east-west and to the summer solstice sun as it would have been seen 6,000 years ago.. The scientists reported their
results in the April 2, 1998 issue of Nature.
When the stones were erected, the area received enough rain in the summer monsoon for temporary lakes, called playa, to form. The site, built on the shore of one such lake. Radiocarbon
dating indicates that Neolithic herders began coming to Nabta about 10,000 years ago. It was used periodically by nomads until about 4,800 years ago, when the monsoon moved
southwest and the area again became arid.
At the height of its human occupation--about 6,000 years ago--Nabta supported well-established communities. One village consisted of 18 houses served by
deep wells. Beneath the surface slabs of the largest megalithic structure was a sculptured rock resembling a standing cow. The team also excavated several
cattle burials at Nabta, including an articulated skeleton buried in a roofed, clay-lined chamber. The late Neolithic occupants apparently used cattle in their
rituals just as the African Massai do today, says Malville.
There is much domestic debris on the site, including small, fire-blackened hearths, the bones of gazelles, hares and other animals, fragments of pottery and
carved and decorated ostrich eggshells. However, no signs of human burials or remains have been found at Nabta. "The nomadic groups must have engaged in
a variety of activities during summer occupation, such as social bonding, marriage, trade and ritual," the authors note.
The small stone circle, just 12 feet in diameter, consists of four sets of upright slabs, which could have been used for sighting along the horizon. Two sets were
aligned in a north-south direction while the second pair of slabs provides a line of sight toward the summer solstice horizon. The centerline of one slot between
the slabs would have picked up the first gleam of the rising sun at the summer solstice. Because Nabta is close to the Tropic of Cancer, the noon sun is at its
zenith on two days, about three weeks before and three weeks after the summer solstice. On these days, upright objects do not cast shadows--something the
authors believe was significant to ancient people.
The researchers also identified an east-west alignment between one megalithic structure and two stone megaliths about a mile distant. There are also two other
geometric lines, involving about a dozen additional stone monuments that lead both northeast and southeast from the same megalith. Individual stone monoliths
would have been partially submerged in the lake as water level varied during spring and fall, and so they may have been ritual markers for the onset of the rainy
season. "The organization of the megaliths suggests a symbolic geometry that integrated death, water, and the sun," the authors said.
One of the earliest pyramids, the step pyramid at Saqqara, was built 500 years after the changing climate rendered Nabta uninhabitable. It may have
incorporated astronomical features known to the ancient Nubians. The authors speculate that the development of the monumental buildings of ancient Egyptian civilization was hastened
by the arrival in the Nile valley of well-organized nomadic groups with a sophisticated cosmology.
© 1996-2002 Scientific American, Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
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Ethelred
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quote:
The plain simple question is: Who build it, were they smarter than us? |
That was quite a rant there. You are the one that hasn't discussed much. You post claims and then ignore the discussion about them, instead posting more claims.
You WERE answered. Many times.
Who - People that lived there, native. Egyptians in Egypt. We even know the names of some of the quarry workers. We have found the tombs of many of the workers. We have found the site where they lived.
Were they smarter - Smarter than Von Danikan anyway. They didn't have to be smarter. We don't know how they did it for the simple reason that they didn't record all the details or at least we have yet to find such recordings. We know ways it could have been done.
We know they moved the sandstone blocks on skids at least some of the time because there is a drawing of it. We think they lubed the skids. Maybe with mud as has been tested succesfully. There is some reason to believe that they lifted the blocks up pyramids with a jacking lever system at least after the bottom where they could have used a small ramp. A ramp to the top isn't practical but one at the bottom would handle a fairy large percentage of the blocks and especially many of the really large ones.
One possible hoist
http://buildthepyramid.com/html/7_p...tingmachine.htm
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Ethelred
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quote:
We have the tallest in the world, the Washington Monument |
More proof the US has the biggest phallus. Its not that we wave it around it just doesn't fit in our military uniforms.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary
[Size=3][Font=Times New Roman]I've not been bothered to read the whole thread (as it was a mile long before I saw it anyway) but I was under the impression CS was just impressed by the claims, couldn't see anything obviously wrong in them, and posted here for further discussion. I'm not sure, from the bits I did read, that either stance on this has made that good a case.
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A good case has been made against the various Space Aliens-Atlanteans stuff. The main problem with CS is that he DOESN'T want to discuss it. He hasn't really responded with a single rebuttal to any of the attempts to discuss it with him. His only responce has been to find yet another site and post more of the almost always usuported claims and then claim he isn't pushing their agenda that Caligastria is pushing in a massive conspiracy of his own with the Seventh Day Adventists and The Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
At this rate he will be posting Von Danikens claims that the Egyptians didn't have rope. The fact the the Egyptians did have rope never phazed that ignoramous one bit.
I am waiting for him to find a site claiming Aliens from the Hollow Earth joined the Bavarian Illuminati in a massive conspiracy with the people of Mu to disguise the fact that true builders of the Pyramids were actually an Atlantean plot to communicate with Inspector 801,365 from the Andover Nebula mentioned in The Urantia Book.
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12-08-2002 19:03
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