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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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Stupid ancient people.
They didn't have striped toothpaste, or electricity with which to power their sex toys...
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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
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an exerpt from Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco:
"Gentlemen," he said, "I invite you to go and measure that kiosk. You will see that the length of the counter is one hundred and forty-nine centimeters -- in other words, one hundred-billionth of the distance between the earth and the sun. The height at the rear, one hundred and seventy-six centimeters, divided by the width of the window, fifty-six centimeters, is 3.14. The height at the front is nineteen decimeters, equal, in other words, to the number of years of the Greek lunar cycle. The sum of the heights of the two front corners and the two rear corners is one hundred and ninety times two plus one hundred seventy-six times two, which equals seven hundred and thirty-two, the date of the victory at Poitiers. The thickness of the counter is 3.10 centimeters, and the width of the cornice of the window is 8.8 centimeters. Replacing the numbers before the decimals by the corresponding letters of the alphabet, we obtain C for ten and H for eight, or C10H8, which is the formula for naphthalene."
"Fantastic," I said. "You did all these measurements?"
"No," Aglie said. "They were done on another kiosk, by a certain Jean-Pierre Adam. But I would assume that all lottery kiosks have more or less the same dimensions. With numbers you can do anything you like. Suppose I have the sacred number 9 and I want to get the number 1314, date of the execution of Jacques de Molay -- a date dear to anyone who, like me, professes devotion to the Templar tradition of knighthood. What do I do? Multiply nine by one hundred and forty six, the fateful day of the destruction of Carthage. How did I arrive at this? I divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by two, by three, et cetera, until I found a satisfying date. I could also have divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by 6.28, the double of 3.14, and I would have got two hundred and nine. That is the year in which Attalus I, king of Pergamon, joined the anti-Macedonian League. You see?
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King of Rasslin
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If we had the technology the Eygptians had today, we couldn't make the pyramids. So, yes, they were smarter than we are.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:21
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quote:
- The pyramid of Cheops is located exactly in the center of the geographic earth. (the landmass) |
quote:
I *think* they mean the place with exactly as much distance to the most western landmass (Alaska) as to the eastern landmass (East-russia) as to the North (Scandinavia) as to the South (Sout America?) |
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Then it would have to be nearer to the equator. |
Most land is north of the equator, so the geographic center is also north of the equator. Look at a map of the world and try to visualize the geographic center if all the land masses were gathered together using the meridian as the other axis.
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I think they mean the meridian, that goes over land for the longest distance without crossing any sea. (East See, Black See, Gulf, etc.) |
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It passes over the Mediteranean so its wrong. If water counts then the Americas go farther north and farther south. If water stops the projection than its still wrong. |
Cybershy got that wrong, crossing over water is allowed, but the meridian upon which the Pyramids sit crosses the most land.
According to a study (Charles Hapgood, "Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings") of the Piri Re'is map, the geographic center of the map is Alexandria, Egypt. That was the location the researchers concluded was the focal point from which the mapmaker centered that part of the world appearing on the map. Btw, Piri Re'is (the map is dated 1519 I think) said Columbus had a copy of the same map for his voyages. That would explain why Columbus mistook the New World for the East Indies when the elite already knew the circumfrence of the world with adequate accuracy. Another oddity, the map of Fineas Orentius of 1532 shows Antarctica in it's entirety, not just the coastline, but features far inland - a continent supposedly not discovered for another 2 to 3 centuries. The Piri Re'is map also shows part of Antarctica.
As for the Great Pyramid being built by Cheops, well, that was based on a Col. Vyse's claim to have found the name Cheops/Khufu in one of the hidden antechambers above the Great Gallery and King's Chamber. The problem with Vyse's claim is that the hieroglyphs used for Khufu were inaccurate, but just happened to match hieroglyphs used in a book on Egyptian hieroglyphics published just a couple years before Vyse made his "discovery". Read Zecharia Sitchin's "The Stairway to Heaven" for an in depth exposure of Vyse and his shenanigans.
Another egyptologist named Marriette found a stele (the Inventory Stele) near the Sphinx a few years later after Vyse's work and was discounted as an ancient fraud since it contradicted Vyse and what egyptologists believed at the time. The stele was a 1st Millenium bc copy of a more ancient stele possibly written by Khufu upon which Khufu (or his scribes of course) referred to the Sphinx as the Guardian of the Temple of Isis, the ancient name for the Great Pyramid. The problem here is that Khufu was indicating that the Sphinx existed in the time of the Great Pyramid, a claim that contradicts modern egypologist's claims that Khufus second son built the Sphinx when he was supposedly building the second pyramid at Giza. Just one more point, geologic studies of weathering patterns on the Spinx are casting doubt on it's age. The weathering of the Sphinx and it's enclosure appear to be caused by rain while other walls at Giza supposedly of the same age were mainly eroded by wind. Paleo-climatologists claim rainfall was more plentiful a few thousand years before the ~2650 bc age for the Pyramids and Sphinx.
The Sphinx - a lion's body - was a marker for the Vernal Equinox (the determinant for "ages" caused by precession) when we were in the "Age" of Leo 10,500 to 12,500 BC. The head of the Sphinx, now that of a man, may have once been the head of a woman - Virgo "the Virgin". I believe the Sphinx marked the transition from the age of Leo to the age of Virgo around 12,500 years ago. OR, it is possible the Sphinx marked the Vernal Equinox when precession resulted in the southernmost travel of the constellations in the night sky. As precession occurs, the 12 constellations of the Zodiac not only take turns rising on the Vernal Equinox over a ~26,000 year cycle, but the Earth's wobble causes the night sky to shift north and south. About 12,500 years ago, Orion was at it's lowest (southernmost) point in the sky. Another possibility, according to the Tlingit of Alaska, the Great Flood occured ~14,000 years ago. That's ~12,000 BC - the age of Leo (I think). The Sphinx may have marked the flooding at the end of the last ice advance, flooding that submerged much of the inhabited world at the time.
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Cocapsi
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"- The pyramid of Cheops is located exactly in the center of the geographic earth. (the landmass)"
What it means is, if u draw a horizonal & vertical line intersecting at pyramid, the whole world map is divided into 4 pieces of squares.. each square has equal area of land mass (just land, no water here). I read it somewhere too..
Pyramid of Giza got some astonishing facts, perhaps coincidence but how far a concidence alone can keep scientists guessing lol.. The great pyramid and its surrounding smaller ones EXACTLY represents the Orion belt of stars.. hmm im not going to say that they were built by Aliens as a landing spot though..
If you lay all the stones in a line, from pyramids, it will span 2/3 of the length of the earth diameter (!!!) How can a civ that old can gather than much stone and built it on plain mass of land where, no craters were reported near by?
"Pi" is an important mathematical symbol for symmetrical structures.. only by 17th century, we found the value of "pi" upto 3 decimals.. but if you divide the perimeter of Giza pyd by its height, it equates to pi of 6 decimals .. now do you think those ppl who even dont have modern cranes, can built it that accurately? (Slaves can move it, but how precise can you put on a location so important geographically). And h.ell, egyptians preserved, wrote everything inside pyramid.. they just missed out how they built them.
As this theory goes this way.. sumerian records on astronomy too was unbelievable.. they have mentioned that "Annukari" helped them a lot. Ancient Sumerian translates it into ppl who came from heaven. It was believed that once in 3500yrs, a 12th planet comes in vicinity of our universe (they counted sun, moon as planets too) and made a perfect total universal eclipse.
They even had records of getting to their space ship and retuned back.. though not that accurately put on words. According to them, 2013AD will see Annukari back to earth.
Some theory even says that God helped ppl to build pyramids.. but bible never have mentioned abt it.. King James of England, while translating the bible, saw to that no commoners can comprehend or question about it.. he thought ppl should study bible on thru church priests.. later he was accused of mistranslating some specific events.. one instance is, "Nephilm". Genesis 6 tells us that Gaints lived with us in those days.. Hebrew translation of Nephilm is "ppl who came from heaven". Also, the reason why God decided to save Noah, was that his family was untouched genetically by Nephilms (fallen angels/aliens?) but that wasnt mentioned in english verion or any subsequent version of bible, from King James period. When God ordered ppl of Israel to destroy some specific communities b4 entering Cannan, it was mentioned as Nephilm in original version.. Goliath was a famous biblical Nephilm but he was potrayed as Gaint lol.. some of my points were already posted by Berzerker, that makes my typing easy :-)
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:21
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- The city Tiahuanaca in the Andes, South America, has buildings with stones with a weight of 60tons, placed on 100tons weighting standstone blocks. The stones seem to be polished with a huge plane.
These stones appear to be created in the stonepit of Tiahuanacu, 350 km away!!
- The old city Ollantaytambo in Peru contains some 3,5-5 meters height stones, which were created in a stonepit 11 km from the place they are right now.
- The fort fort van Sacsehuaman in Peru is surrounded by a 20 meters high wall, containing some stones heavier than 200ton! From a piece a granite, height 11 meters, width 18 meters that seems to be cutted out of the rock, a perfect squared piece was cutted out of it.
- In Chili, on the height of El Enladrillado, 233 stones size 5 by 7 and 5 by 10 meters are arranged like an amphitheatre. The stones are very polished. The stones must have come from the valley, since there's no natural stone source on the height.
- In Costa Rica, in the jungle, perfect balls were found with a diameter of 2,5 meters. The weight of the heaviest one is 16 ton. There has been found no place where these balls could be created. Pherhaps these balls are scale-models of the planets in our solar system.
- North, in the living area of the Olmeken are giant heads, some have a diameter of 5,5 meters. The local people have tried to move them, but never succeeded. To not even talk about transporting them. The heads do not look alike the race of the current civilians.
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Bas
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Out of step
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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CS: Ofcourse, I know that there are many monolithic structures all over the world, but this is not a point in your favour like you seem to think (whatever it exactly is that you try to argue. You have the same strange logic here that you use in the evolution/religion threads, but let's keep this on-topic.). Very simply, it shows that ancient people were not as dumb as you make them out to be: they were just as intelligent and crafty as they are now, and certainly with the time spans usually associated with the construction of these things (centuries are no exception, not even in medieval times), amazing things can be built. But this does not require any superhuman intervention, like you seem to suggest: 'early' man (as in a few 1000 years ago) was very capable of constructing such large structures, even if it meant a lot of long, hard work.
BTW, are you suggesting that the statues on Easter Island, the pyramids, the monolithic structures in Europe and the Indian temples in South and Central America were built by the same people? 
If not, then what's your point?
Cocapsi: again, you seem to suffer from the same underestimation of the intelligence of early mankind, and the same susceptibility to juggling with random numbers in order to find some weird correlations... Like Boshko (and several others before in this thread) said, you can get any number of correlations by just taking a lot of numbers, and doing irrelevant calculations with them. I'll take on a few examples of yours.
quote:
What it means is, if u draw a horizonal & vertical line intersecting at pyramid, the whole world map is divided into 4 pieces of squares.. each square has equal area of land mass (just land, no water here). I read it somewhere too..
Pyramid of Giza got some astonishing facts, perhaps coincidence but how far a concidence alone can keep scientists guessing lol.. The great pyramid and its surrounding smaller ones EXACTLY represents the Orion belt of stars.. hmm im not going to say that they were built by Aliens as a landing spot though.. |
Well, first of all you won't get squares, but never mind. I can't check your claim, so I won't go into further detail there. And it doesn't surprise me at all that the pyramids were built in the same relative positions as certain stars... Astronomy played an important role in early civilizations (often in a religious way), and these things do not require any great feats of mathematics. Some basic astronomy and some basic trigonometry (probably experimentally, I don't think they used sines etc.) will be more than sufficient IMO, nothing that the early Egyptians weren't capable of.
quote:
If you lay all the stones in a line, from pyramids, it will span 2/3 of the length of the earth diameter (!!!) How can a civ that old can gather than much stone and built it on plain mass of land where, no craters were reported near by? |
Trade. For example, during that time the egyptians already traded with the phoenicians, on the coast of current-day Lebanon. I don't see why they couldn't have imported that stone from, for example, modern-day Sudan or Ethiopia (or probably somewhere in Egypt itself), especially considering the relative ease of transport over water.
quote:
"Pi" is an important mathematical symbol for symmetrical structures.. only by 17th century, we found the value of "pi" upto 3 decimals.. but if you divide the perimeter of Giza pyd by its height, it equates to pi of 6 decimals .. now do you think those ppl who even dont have modern cranes, can built it that accurately? (Slaves can move it, but how precise can you put on a location so important geographically). And h.ell, egyptians preserved, wrote everything inside pyramid.. they just missed out how they built them. |
Bullshit. Pi has no relevance on pyramidical structures, but crops up in things with circular or radial symmetry, something the pyramids don't have. Again, you're juggling with some numbers, until you get an answer that looks somewhat familiar. I don't doubt that you can get, for example, e or pi squared to several decimals if you juggle a bit with some of the dimensions of the pyramid. I don't see any intention by the builders here (by the way, a bit of a cumbersome way to give the value of pi, don't you think  ).
I'll stop now, since I've got better things to do than talk about your ramblings on nephilim and Sumerians. The Bible is not a very trustworthy source anyway, I'm afraid.
Berzerker: I'll try to check out the info you give a bit, but I can't respond to it yet. I'm only faintly familiar with the Piri Reis map and the other things you mentioned.
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:21
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August Borms, Did I mention 'giants' anywhere?
I started to read into this, and I want to share it with you guys, because pherhaps know answers.
The thing that botters me is that all answers are "Enough people and enough time will do it"
in fact it seems to be the famous scientific anser these days. Give it enough time, and everything is possible.
quote:
You have the same strange logic here that you use in the evolution/religion threads |
what logic do I use? I didn't provide any (possible) answer. I just write down what I found. Facts.
And suddenly you guys start to put words into my mouth like "Do you really think it's been made by giants" or alients, or whatever.
I didn't say that. I know, the websites I took this from do indeed talk about alients, highly advanced civilizations (higher than we) about giants and all that. But pherhaps you noticed that I didn't copy and paste those parts.
I just talk about the structures, how could they ever have been build. Did they know technics we don't? How comes we lost it?
Something else I found, is about some prof who discovered 15000 squared meters under the pyramid of giza, with very advanced technics and all that. He's said to publish his work in 2003........ "The chambres of the Deep". Anybody knows anything about that?
Just search in google for "chambres of the deep" and giza, and you'll find it.
I don't provide answers, I come with questions.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Trade. For example, during that time the egyptians already traded with the phoenicians, on the coast of current-day Lebanon. I don't see why they couldn't have imported that stone from, for example, modern-day Sudan or Ethiopia (or probably somewhere in Egypt itself), especially considering the relative ease of transport over water. |
We know they didn't trade for. We know that because we know exactly where the stone came from. Partially cut stones are still in place. Names of work crews are carved on the sides of the quarry. Egyptian names. Every stone came for very local quarries.
There is exactly one mystery about where the rocks came from:
Why do some people work so hard at being so ignorant about the source when it well known to anyone that makes the slightest effort at finding out?
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Bas
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Out of step
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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Grrr, screw Markos and his server who ate up my first reply 
quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
The thing that botters me is that all answers are "Enough people and enough time will do it" |
Simply put, because it's the truth. Every fact points to that, and even though it still is a tremendous effort, there's no reason why early man couldn't have been crafty and intelligent enough to build these structures.
quote:
in fact it seems to be the famous scientific anser these days. Give it enough time, and everything is possible. |
Nice misrepresentation of evolution, how typical. You just seem to forget that everything still has to be subject to the laws of nature, which is something completely different from 'everything is possible'.
quote:
quote:
You have the same strange logic here that you use in the evolution/religion threads |
what logic do I use? I didn't provide any (possible) answer. I just write down what I found. Facts. |
Indeed, probably it's the lack of logic... You usually post some facts of dubious origin, ignore all perfectly reasonable explanations that are given, and then imply that there must be something else. God in the evolution/religion threads, and something superhuman that you seem to hint at in this thread here.
quote:
And suddenly you guys start to put words into my mouth like "Do you really think it's been made by giants" or alients, or whatever.
I didn't say that. I know, the websites I took this from do indeed talk about alients, highly advanced civilizations (higher than we) about giants and all that. But pherhaps you noticed that I didn't copy and paste those parts. |
Actually, I asked you what you thought... But your arguments seem to point to some belief in aliens, giants or something superhuman.
quote:
I just talk about the structures, how could they ever have been build. Did they know technics we don't? How comes we lost it? |
Early man was perfectly capable of building such structures, with the experience (for example, there were lots of pyramids built before the pyramid of Cheops), time (like I said, most of these structures took very long to build) and manpower available. A great effort in many cases, but nothing that mankind is not capable of.
quote:
Something else I found, is about some prof who discovered 15000 squared meters under the pyramid of giza, with very advanced technics and all that. He's said to publish his work in 2003........ "The chambres of the Deep". Anybody knows anything about that?
Just search in google for "chambres of the deep" and giza, and you'll find it. |
Haven't heard of it.
quote:
I don't provide answers, I come with questions. |
And you ignore all explanations given, even if they're perfectly reasonable. Why's that?
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:21
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those were not my facts, Bas.
I didn't say anything about trading stones and all that.
quote:
I don't believe in skeletons of horned giants, fossils of tooth fairies, or the existence of pink unicorns. |
neither did I, that's why I didn't quote those passages. (remember, I didn't start to talk about them)
But you came with a firm 'no' thus I guessed you might have some inside information.
You seem to know nothing more than I do about these things, thus you should have said nothing about it, like I did. And for sure do not blame me for saying anything about that.
quote:
there's no reason why early man couldn't have been crafty and intelligent enough to build these structures. |
Pherhaps because they couldn't move the stones over kilometres? To not even talk about putting them together that perfect.
Why should generations long people only be busy moving stones? And what about the drawings they found that could only be seen completely from the air?
No, I don't say they could fly, but I do really wonder how they did that.
quote:
ignore all perfectly reasonable explanations that are given, and then imply that there must be something else |
I did not ignore anything so far.
You really suck, mister Bas!
I just posted some questions here, and you start to yell at me, and you start to call me names for no reason.
It's like: I ask what's the sum of 2 and 2, you say:
idiot, it's 4, you should believe me, you suck, why do you ignore my answer, bigot, you think you need giants to add 2 by 2......
it makes no sence Bas !
Why are you yelling at me?
Why can't I start this topic?
I have said no word about giants, alients, whatever. I just ask "How did they do it?" and "were they smarter than us". It appears to me they had knowledge we don't have anymore.
Pherhaps that's the only implication I made, but that's not a strange one. It might be true, that these guys knew technics we don't have anymore, but instead of discussing it, you start to make me look like a fool, and you put millions of words into my mouth.
It really pisses me of. Is it really impossible to have a discussion with some of you guys? This has nothing to do with sciense or whatever. As soon as someone says something you guys start to do the arrogant talking and all that.
You defenitely suck.
I'm done with it, bigoted apolyton arrogant wannabe scientific *******s. You really feel you have all knowledge in the world, don't you? Idiot.
get the hell out of here and let me talk with the people who ARE capable to have a discussion about these interesting topics, instead of being the smartass immediately.
you really pissed me off.
now someone might come to talk about the topic who won't put words into my mouth.
The plain simple question is: Who build it, were they smarter than us?
thanks.
CyberShy
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Bas
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Out of step
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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quote:
those were not my facts, Bas.
I didn't say anything about trading stones and all that. |
I thought it was your post that said that the stones were not from local quarries (sp?), if not, my apologies.
quote:
neither did I, that's why I didn't quote those passages. (remember, I didn't start to talk about them)
But you came with a firm 'no' thus I guessed you might have some inside information.
You seem to know nothing more than I do about these things, thus you should have said nothing about it, like I did. And for sure do not blame me for saying anything about that. |
True, you didn't start talking about them, but you asked me why I didn't believe in them. And I answered. What's the problem with my argument? The burden of proof is not on me on this one. I'm not claiming horned giants existed, the guy who wrote the homepage does, and thus he's the one that should provide the proof. Which consists of nothing but the claim that thousands of giant skeletons have been found, but there is some conspiracy by evil scientists that holds that information back. And thus, there still is no reason whatsoever IMHO that they exist. Is that so hard to understand?
And I didn't blame you for claiming giants exist, I blamed whoever wrote that fairytale that August linked to. Although I don't see why you would attach any worth to his claims about giants...
quote:
Pherhaps because they couldn't move the stones over kilometres? To not even talk about putting them together that perfect. |
Why couldn't they? I can think of several techniques, which might be cumbersome, but which would work. For example, take a good number of big round tree trunks, put the stone on it (which requires a good amount of effort, ofcourse, but which is nothing impossible), then push or pull the stone so that it rolls on the trunks, when the last trunk comes from under the stone carry it in front of the stone again, and continue until you reach your destination. Sure, it's slow, it takes a lot of effort, but it's not impossible. And I'm sure the indians, egyptians etc. had worked out more efficient ways from experience. And the putting together might be hard as well, but again, enough experience and lots of time and effort can IMO do the job.
quote:
Why should generations long people only be busy moving stones? And what about the drawings they found that could only be seen completely from the air?
No, I don't say they could fly, but I do really wonder how they did that. |
Your first point: most of the structures have religious significance, or military significance. Both of which are enough to motivate generations of people IMO, just look at the Great Wall, many cathedrals in Europe, etc. Or just a bit of megalomania, which at least in Egypt was also important. And your second point: the Nazca lines, you mean? I suggest making a small drawing, multiplying the sides by a factor of 1000 or whatever, mark the corner points, and dig a straight line between them. What's the problem?
quote:
I did not ignore anything so far.
You really suck, mister Bas! |
Then what did you do with the explanations given by, for example, JohnT and Boshko (who are the first that come to mind)? You continue with the same arguments. And thanks for the compliment. 
quote:
just posted some questions here, and you start to yell at me, and you start to call me names for no reason.
It's like: I ask what's the sum of 2 and 2, you say:
idiot, it's 4, you should believe me, you suck, why do you ignore my answer, bigot, you think you need giants to add 2 by 2......
it makes no sence Bas !
Why are you yelling at me? |
I'm not yelling at you, I'm not saying you suck, I'm just saying that your arguments and logic hold no water. Nothing personal, but something objective. And I never accused you of believing the giant thing, my friend. Read my last few posts again if you will.
quote:
Why can't I start this topic?
I have said no word about giants, alients, whatever. I just ask "How did they do it?" and "were they smarter than us". It appears to me they had knowledge we don't have anymore.
Pherhaps that's the only implication I made, but that's not a strange one. It might be true, that these guys knew technics we don't have anymore, but instead of discussing it, you start to make me look like a fool, and you put millions of words into my mouth.
It really pisses me of. Is it really impossible to have a discussion with some of you guys? This has nothing to do with sciense or whatever. As soon as someone says something you guys start to do the arrogant talking and all that.
You defenitely suck.
I'm done with it, bigoted apolyton arrogant wannabe scientific *******s. You really feel you have all knowledge in the world, don't you? Idiot.
get the hell out of here and let me talk with the people who ARE capable to have a discussion about these interesting topics, instead of being the smartass immediately.
you really pissed me off.
now someone might come to talk about the topic who won't put words into my mouth.
The plain simple question is: Who build it, were they smarter than us?
thanks.
CyberShy |
Now, who's calling names? You can start such a topic, but if you keep on using the same arguments while not reacting to explanations, you're being illogical. And please take your valium. You take some things too personal.
Last question: I see no reason why the Indians, Egyptians etc. couldn't have been able to do it, given the circumstances. And I don't think either that our ancestors (which they are) are significantly smarter or dumber than we are.
quote:
And I'm so happy that there are omnipotent people like bas who know literary EVERYTHING on the topic of pyramids. Why are you allmighty guys even visiting places like apolyton? |
I don't. I haven't even claimed to know a lot about pyramids, I just used elementary logic. Deal with my arguments, instead of the ad hominems you accuse me of.
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If you would be that smart, you won't be here, dude.
I'm really pissed of. I really am. |
Surprising. 
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