10-08-2002 02:16									#91
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also important:

-the pyramids of giz perfectly match the stars of orion's belt
-there are shafts in the bottom chambers of the pyramids that lined up perfectly with these stars once a year at the time of construction...
-The pyramids have an impossibly stable foundation. The have sunk less than a foot in the 4000+ years they have been around. The white house has sunk 2 feet in 200. And more importantly, they are built on sand?!

anyway, it is said that modern architects builders couldn't duplicate these feets...

Last edited by Kaak on 10-08-2002 at 02:27

	10-08-2002 02:23									#92
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I heard that some South American pyramid had the same base size as the Great Pyramid. There is so much evidence to suggest that the Eygptians were a helluva lot smarter than we are. Cyber is trying to convince us that the Eygptians were smarter than us, and he doesn't need to try to show that because we already know it.

Watch a show about the pyramid's shafts being aligned with stars. Seriously, "Atlantis" or some other ancient civilization really did exist. Please don't reduce this to an aliens thread.

	10-08-2002 02:24									#93
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Everyone poster on this thread should this:

quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Some british dude got fed up with all the 'the circumference of the third stone multiplied by the number of public lavatories in Cairo exactly equals the distance to the 19'th closest star therefore the pyramids must be built by aliens'. But instead of *****ing about it, he wrote a computer porgram. On one end he fed loads and loads of astronomical and geological constants (such speed of light, distance to the moon, circumference of the earth etc etc). In the other side he fed every measurement he could think of regarding the Nelsons Column on Trafalgar Square. The he let the program find correlations. The conclusion was unmistakable: Nelsons Column had to have been built by aliens. Multiplying the base length with the column height was exactly equal to the square root of the earths radius dividided by 1,000,000 (or something along those lines) etc etc... He stopped the program after it had found over a thousand correlations. I wish I could remember his name though...

CyberGnu, you couldn't have said it better.

	10-08-2002 02:25									#94
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Hmm, Kaak must have seen that thing about the shafts. The Pyramids were definitely designed with very advanced knowledge about astronomy and engineering.

South Americans weren't so dumb either. Check out the Nazca plains and other geoglyphs they did, or their pyramids being aligned with stars. The Aztec calendar is more accurate than ours. There really was an advanced civilization back then...

	10-08-2002 02:28									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak also important: -the pyramids of giz perfectly match the stars of orion's belt -there are shafts in the bottom chambers of the pyramids that lined up perfectly with these stars once a year at the time of construction... -The pyramids have an impossibly stable foundation. The have sunk less than a foot in the 2000+ years they have been around. The white house has sunk 2 feet in 200. And more importantly, they are built on sand?! anyway, it is said that modern architects builders couldn't duplicate these feets...

Piling up bunch of stones requires far less skill than Haghia Sophia, or even the Great Lighthouse of Alexandria.

Buildings that serve economic purposes usually will go for the lowest bidder.

	10-08-2002 02:29									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak anyway, it is said that modern architects builders couldn't duplicate these feets...

It is said by people who dont know what they are talking about.

	10-08-2002 02:30									#97
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sure, piling up a bunch of stones doesn't, but the pyramids are vastly more complex than that. you are showing your ignorance...

	10-08-2002 02:33									#98
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bah...

http://www.egyptiancharm.com/know/know.html


5.995 million tons, and it has only sunk a few inches....

cali, you think modern architects could do that? they couldn't even find a foundation that stable...

	10-08-2002 02:34									#99
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Actually, the pyramids are on bedrock. They would cut down to the bedrock, then cut a deep grid into the ground. They'd flood it, mark the water level, and then drain the water. They'd cut the stone grid down to the water mark, fill in the grid with stone, and voila, a stable, flat, stone base.

	10-08-2002 02:34									#100
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"It is said..." Love the authoritative reference.

Occams razor, anybody? Some people who would spend hours arguing against the existance of God re: the entire Universe seem to have no problem accepting the existance of aliens re: the Pyramids.

	10-08-2002 02:35									#101
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moving that much sand must have been a big pain in the ass...

	10-08-2002 02:35									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak bah... http://www.egyptiancharm.com/know/know.html 5.995 million tons, and it has only sunk a few inches.... cali, you think modern architects could do that? they couldn't even find a foundation that stable...

How do you know modern architects cant do that? Youre just regurgitating what some website says.

	10-08-2002 02:36									#103
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Actually, the pyramids are on bedrock. They would cut down to the bedrock, then cut a deep grid into the ground. They'd flood it, mark the water level, and then drain the water. They'd cut the stone grid down to the water mark, fill in the grid with stone, and voila, a stable, flat, stone base.

Che, facts are not welcome to the True Believer!

	10-08-2002 02:38									#104
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quote: How do you know modern architects cant do that? Youre just regurgitating what some website says.

nah, i got that from the learning channel...

	10-08-2002 02:39									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak moving that much sand must have been a big pain in the ass...

Not that much sand. The bedrock isn't that far down and even just up above the sand in somelaces. Much of the Sphynx is an upthrusting of bedrock.

	10-08-2002 02:41									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak nah, i got that from the learning channel...

Now THAT is a learned source!

Next thing you know, you'll start quoting the History Channel.

	10-08-2002 02:46									#107
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The History Channel is one of the best channels on TV, but TLC occasionally gets nutty. The pyramid show did seem to be solid and believable, since they did bring up a lot of facts and not very many opinions.

	10-08-2002 02:50									#108
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I think we are neither smarter nor stupider than the ancients. Afterall, we are biologically the same human. But what we differ from them is the that we have far more knowledge than our ancestors 4000 years ago, and knowledge can help humans make better decisions and carry out better activities.

People today are definitely not more smarter, as described by the narrowmindedness of many people. Just because THEY can not imagine to do something, they assume that nobody else beside them can do it, and would like to resort to supernatural explanations.

Saying that today's people are not capable of replicating the pyramids is an insult to the millions of scientists, engineers, and architects. Before you make such claim, or repeat similar claims from a vulgar TV channel, you should first ask MULTIPLE experts before drawing your conclusion.

	10-08-2002 02:54									#109
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin The History Channel is one of the best channels on TV, but TLC occasionally gets nutty. The pyramid show did seem to be solid and believable, since they did bring up a lot of facts and not very many opinions.

So what? Building after star formations should hardly be surprising. Nights in ancient times were far darker than today. People who had nothing to do during night times would certainly look up to the skies, watch star patterns, and think about stories.

I'm sure if you end up in such an environment, you would do the same thing.

	10-08-2002 02:59									#110
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I thought I should quote this from that website Kaak came with:

- The Great Pyramid lies in the exact center of the Earth's Land Mass. The longest latitude land line and the longest longitude land meridian meet at the location of the Great Pyramid. The odds of its having been built where it is are 1 to 3 billion.
- The exact location of the Pyramids is the only place on earth able to endure such immense weight. Only a solid mountain can endure the weight of the Pyramids. Astonishingly enough, a flat granite mountain happens to be located just beneath the surface of the ground directly under the Pyramid.
- The Great Pyramid is the oldest structure on the face of the earth having been built at 4,617 years ago.
- With incredible precision, the pyramid is exactly due north, south, east, and west. Each side is oriented to one of the four cardinal points of the compass at a rigorous 51 degree/51 minute angle. Modern man's best effort, the Paris Observatory, is six minutes of a degree off true north. The Great Pyramid is only 3 minutes deviant! This error is probably due more to the gradual shift of the Earth's axis since the pyramid was built, rather than an error in its original alignment.
- The Pyramid reflects the earth in volume, area and weight. The Pyramid's estimated mass of 5.995 million tons is one billionth of the estimated mass of the Earth (5.9 X 10 21 tons)
- The Great Pyramid was constructed with a protective outer layer of white Tura limestone that gave it a smooth and seamless outer surface. In the 14th century, the local inhabitants stripped the casing stones from the pyramid to rebuild buildings damaged from an earthquake.
- The sum of the lengths of the 4 sides of the Pyramid equal to 36,524 inches. Modern science has proven that the exact length of the solar year is 365.24 days.
- The average height of land above sea level (Miami being low and the Himalayas being high) happens to be 5,449 inches, the exact height of the Pyramid
- The locations of the three pyramids of Giza, parallel the positions and sizes of the stars in Orion's belt as seen at Giza in 10,500 BC. Even the position of the Nile matches the position of the Milky way in this epoch. With the help of complex calculations, geometric researcher Robin Cook showed that the air shafts in the king's and the Queen's chamber had pointed to Sirius(the brightest star in the constellation of the big Dog) found in 2600 BC; and towards Little Bear (the second brightest star in constellation).
- Pi was designed into the pyramid 4,600 years ago, a time when supposedly pi was not yet discovered. If the circumference of the Pyramid is divided by twice its height (the diameter of a circle is twice the radius), the result is 3.14159. Incredibly, this number happens to be pi accurate to the six digits
- Many have estimated that 2.3 million blocks were used to build the Great Pyramid, with an average weight of about 2.5 metric tons per block. The largest block weighs as much as 20 metric tons.
- Thirty times larger than the Empire State Building, the Pyramid's features are so large that they can seen from the moon.

again, thanks to Kaak: http://www.egyptiancharm.com/know/know.html

I'll try to find more on the 'longest latitude' and all that tomorrow.

CS

	10-08-2002 03:05									#111
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I mean if it was 36,524 of something else - but inches????

What the**** did Egyptians know that we will use - or actually that the Brits will use an inch as a measurement???

	10-08-2002 03:21									#112
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Inches!!!
As for the claims about the center of the Earth, I have to say the center is always where I stand.
As for being due north etc. and more precisely so than the Observatoire, well, consider the error in inches instead of angle, and you will see that it may not be as precise. It is always easier to draw a straight line when it is long than when it is short.
Tura limestone was used on most pyramids. Some still retain it.
Anout pi, I am afraid that if you just let some sand fall and look at the angle you get in the thus-created pyramid, you may get an inclination much like that of the pyramids (they were built so they couldn't collapse). From that, the ratio of height/perimeter follows. And note that Egyptians knew the wheel. When you divide the perimeter of the wheel by the diameter, you get a figure which they had to know. Or else, how would they have built a wheel?

	10-08-2002 04:31									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak also important: -the pyramids of giz perfectly match the stars of orion's belt

Only if you look at it from a bizzare angle, squint, put sand in your eyes and then pretend all that made sense.

http://www.legon.demon.co.uk/orion.htm

Bauval, the man responsible for that theory, wants to claim the allignment was from 10,000 years ago. Why then? Because he thinks Atlanteans were involved. The total lack of evidence for Atlantis besides one unfinished story by Plato regarding a story he said he heard as a child doesn't seem to faze Atlantis fans.

quote: -there are shafts in the bottom chambers of the pyramids that lined up perfectly with these stars once a year at the time of construction...

Yes, well supposedly anyway. That one took a bit of planning but they had lots of time, hundreds of years of experience and there is no reason to think that people that could move all that rock couldn't plan where not to put it. After all all they really had to do was get the angle of elevation right. The whole pyramid was allready alligned to the north and most likely by using the star in question. It is just one star not stars. So right there one variable is taken care of.

Oh and the shafts don't go all the way to an exit. They stop and can't actually pass starlight into the pyramid.

quote: -The pyramids have an impossibly stable foundation. The have sunk less than a foot in the 4000+ years they have been around. The white house has sunk 2 feet in 200. And more importantly, they are built on sand?!

The White House was built on marshy soil and then someone added so much to it that the building nearly collapsed from the weight of the new construction. The pyramids were built by experienced people that learned how to get a good foundation over centuries.

quote: anyway, it is said that modern architects builders couldn't duplicate these feets...

Said by people that don't want to believe the Egyptians could build it despite all the evidence that they could and did build pyramids for centuries. They look for ways to say it can't be done instead of figuring out how it might have been done.

	10-08-2002 04:50									#114
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I thought I should quote this from that website Kaak came with: - Thirty times larger than the Empire State Building, the Pyramid's features are so large that they can seen from the moon.

I will just deal with this one. Its utterly false. So preposterously erroneous that it calls all else from the source into question. Unless of course they are using one heck of big telescope. Can't even be seen naked eye from low Earth orbit.

About the telescope. That won't do it either.

We can see features of about one foot across from low Earth orbit and that is with the best scope the governments money can buy. Thats about 100 miles away. The Moon is about 230,000 miles away or 2300 times the distance. So a foot becomes 2300 of them. Cheops is less than 800 feet on a side. So it can't be seen from the moon even with spy satelite scopes.

	10-08-2002 11:22									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak -the pyramids of giz perfectly match the stars of orion's belt

This is false. There is no such lining up.

quote: Originally posted by Kaak -there are shafts in the bottom chambers of the pyramids that lined up perfectly with these stars once a year at the time of construction...

There are several questions:

1. What was the time of construction used?
2. Is there any independent verification of said shafts?

	10-08-2002 11:40									#116
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Just to pick apart a few assertions:

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The Great Pyramid lies in the exact center of the Earth's Land Mass. The longest latitude land line and the longest longitude land meridian meet at the location of the Great Pyramid. The odds of its having been built where it is are 1 to 3 billion.

The Earth's land masses are scattered, it makes no sense to used the so called longest latitude land lane (whatever that means) and the longest meridian (all meridians are the same length by definition).

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The exact location of the Pyramids is the only place on earth able to endure such immense weight. Only a solid mountain can endure the weight of the Pyramids. Astonishingly enough, a flat granite mountain happens to be located just beneath the surface of the ground directly under the Pyramid.

That's a load of crap. Where's the calculations that shows this?

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The Great Pyramid is the oldest structure on the face of the earth having been built at 4,617 years ago.

More lies.

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - With incredible precision, the pyramid is exactly due north, south, east, and west. Each side is oriented to one of the four cardinal points of the compass at a rigorous 51 degree/51 minute angle.

What does this mean? Does it mean the sides of the base of the Great pyramid aligns exactly with the cardinal directions? If so, they will have to be 90° from their neighbours.

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy The Great Pyramid is only 3 minutes deviant! This error is probably due more to the gradual shift of the Earth's axis since the pyramid was built, rather than an error in its original alignment.

Say what? True north doesn't change.

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The sum of the lengths of the 4 sides of the Pyramid equal to 36,524 inches. Modern science has proven that the exact length of the solar year is 365.24 days.

Inches this time and not el? Make up your mind already. This kind of correlations are bunk anyway, stink of the whole Bible Code fiasco.

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The average height of land above sea level (Miami being low and the Himalayas being high) happens to be 5,449 inches, the exact height of the Pyramid

This is going to be tough, as the elavation of every single point on Earth must be taken. Has this been done?

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - The locations of the three pyramids of Giza, parallel the positions and sizes of the stars in Orion's belt as seen at Giza in 10,500 BC.

So how does that mesh with this?

"The Great Pyramid is the oldest structure on the face of the earth having been built at 4,617 years ago"



I'll stop now, this thing is just one big hole.

	10-08-2002 11:47									#117
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I still think it is funny UR (as somebody pointed out earlier) that the Egyptians measured things in inches. Damned foresightful of them, dontcha think?

	10-08-2002 12:34									#118
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I should point out that we can actually do better then the Egyptians and building pyramids using modern technology. Aside from the dramatic decrease in the time it would now take to build the damn things, we can measure it more acurately as well. For instance, the pyramids are on a north-south/east-west axis to within a degree of arc (very impressive at the time. It's been suggested they used an artifical horizon and averaged out stars rising and falling to get true north). Now a days though it is possible to get within a 100th a degree of arc (I hope I remembered this correctly, it's been years since I took that course in Ancient Technology). I'm sure the range of accuracy is similar for other measurements.

In other words, ancient technology was impressive and well thought out, but they were no way technological nearly as sophisticated as we are today.

	10-08-2002 13:03									#119
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I still think it is funny UR (as somebody pointed out earlier) that the Egyptians measured things in inches. Damned foresightful of them, dontcha think?

Yeah, and el's too

	10-08-2002 14:36									#120
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ok, thus the conclusion should be:
- the guys who build the pyramids were not smart at all
- they were plain lucky though