23-08-2002 08:44									#121
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code:

The Jungle Gazette Estate: 
Turn #001 
Holdings: 
Tile 013, Jungle NE Termina1 
Tile 012, Jungle NE Termina2 
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shield, 1 commerce 
Cash $100 
Dept: -$450 

Administered by: GhengisFarb 
___ 

Production this turn: 2 food, 1 Commerce (one jungle is next to river) 
---- 

Proposed deals: 
Sell 2 food @ $44 (new D:S = 26/50(48+2) = $57) 
Sell 2 Commerce @ $45 (new DS = 20/41(39+2)= $49)
Pay off $100 of debt.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 23-08-2002 at 18:00

	23-08-2002 08:46									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Jonny Genghis, you may want to check your new D:S figures, I believe you have made some errors. (Be sure to look at my post above yours.)

I know, you posted while I was typing my transaction, went back and fixed it, the numbers in the chain were a little off as some people hadn't carried a number here or there.

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I've been busy sleeping on the bench. Can someone explain to me what my lands have generated? 001 Apolyton N (horse, grass, rd). Thanks.

You produce 2 food and 2 commerce a turn.
Last turn's food rotted, but you have 2 commerce in your stockpile.

Means you currently have 2 food and 4 commerce to sell.

quote: Originally posted by Epistax code: Epistan Plantation, Turn 2. Admin: Epistax +Update+ Selling: 2 Food @ D:S/ea 0 Shld @ N/A/ea 1 Comm @ D:S/ea D/S Unchanged Are we allowed to simply do this?

I have no idea what that means?

	23-08-2002 08:51									#123
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Sell them at the ending S/D, whatever it might be.

So if at the end, food is 28/43, it ends up getting sold at $65.

	23-08-2002 08:58									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax Sell them at the ending S/D, whatever it might be. So if at the end, food is 28/43, it ends up getting sold at $65.

Okay, quick ruling on this as its come up quite often. You CAN NOW place a sell command to sell "at ending market price" (Sell 2 food at ending market price) but the Banker (currently me) takes out the greater of a $5 or 10% fee PER COMMODITY (That's $10 or 10% of sale price for two food) as a fee. That way those who actively try to guess the ending price have a chance to make a little more.





ANSWER TO FOLLOWING POST:

quote: Originally posted by Epistax That could really add up. What's to keep someone from siloing up say 5 food, then right before the round closes, selling them all, making everyone elses food too expensive to sell?

1. By flooding the market they would get less per food.

2. People with selling "at ending market price" would still sell there product.

3. If someone did do that it would provide great "history" for the Democracy game. "I ain't voting him in for President, he bottomed the grain market 6 years ago. "

Clarification: anything sold at ending market price in excess of demand will be stockpiled by the Government. Didn't you wonder where Government Cheese came from?

	23-08-2002 09:05									#125
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That could really add up. What's to keep someone from siloing up say 5 food, then right before the round closes, selling them all, making everyone elses food too expensive to sell?

	23-08-2002 09:13									#126
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What's this D:S blah, blah, blah?

	23-08-2002 09:23									#127
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither What's this D:S blah, blah, blah?

See the first page of this thread, we pretty much all had that same question.

	23-08-2002 10:09									#128
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So the later you sell, the less you get?

	23-08-2002 11:55									#129
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D:S = Demand:Supply
It determines the price of a commodity (if D:S= 1, then the price of the commodity is $100).
Each time you sell something (say, food), supply gets higher, and the price drops. This price is the market price : if anyone offers an higher price than the market price, he doesn't sell.
So, making trades by the end of a turn won't change anything for your income (because anybody must adapt to the same market price), but it brings you more knowledge : you know quite precisely what the market price will be eventually, and you can get maximum money from it, while still not selling too high.

	23-08-2002 12:22									#130
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code:
The Mustang Ranch [001], Turn 2.  notyoueither
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shield, 2 commerce 
Cash $0 
Dept: -$1000
___ 

Production this turn: 2 food, 2 Commerce
---- 
Deals:
Sell 2 Food  @ lot's 'o cash
Have 0 Shld  @ 
Sell 4 Comm  @ even more cash
Pay off all the debt I can.

Last edited by notyoueither on 23-08-2002 at 14:01

	23-08-2002 13:48									#131
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Okay, quick ruling on this as its come up quite often. You CAN NOW place a sell command to sell "at ending market price" (Sell 2 food at ending market price) but the Banker (currently me) takes out the greater of a $5 or 10% fee PER COMMODITY (That's $10 or 10% of sale price for two food) as a fee. That way those who actively try to guess the ending price have a chance to make a little more.

If I understand this correctly (it depends on how you define the ending market price, I assume here default price), the above is not a good solution. Let me give a simple example:
Food demand 15
Food supply 15
Default price $100

First guy offers 5 food at $40. Second guy offers 5 food at $30. Third guy offers 5 food at "ending market price". Final default price (=ending market price???): 15/30=$50. So third guy gets $49 as his price???? Quite unfair (unless all of us get this price as I proposed in another post)

A solution to this could be "ending market price=lowest price offered - 1$" but be carefull: Some of us (I for one) will offer 1$ if they feel this is in their interest (harming competition).

	23-08-2002 14:01									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep "Estate" of Kloreep I bid $7 for one laborer to convert a shield to the beginnings of a silo. (New D:S=1:14 = $7)

The default and minimum price for labour is $100. If I understand it correctly there is no D:S in this case but you do have to bid more than the default price. Highest bidder wins.

	23-08-2002 14:10									#133
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither code: The Mustang Ranch [001], Turn 2. notyoueither Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shield, 2 commerce Cash $0 Dept: -$1000 ___ Production this turn: 2 food, 2 Commerce ---- Deals: Sell 2 Food @ lot's 'o cash Have 0 Shld @ Sell 4 Comm @ even more cash Pay off all the debt I can. How much does that work out to?

You do have to set a price and calculate the new default. If the price is above the final default you will not sell anything. If it is below the final default you will sell against your price unless supply by the nobles is more than demand. In that case lowest prices get priority. Hope this helps.

	23-08-2002 14:36									#134
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Estate of Franses
Turn #: 002
Holdings: Tile 002, NE Apolyton, Bonus Grassland (mine, rd)
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
Cash: $245
Debt: -$1100 (10% interest, 14 turns remaining on grace period)
Buildings: None

Administered by: Franses

Production this turn: 2 food, 2 shield, 1 commerce
---
Proposed Deals:

Sell 2 of 2 food @ $45 each (New D:S=26:52 (50+2) = $50 )
Sell 2 of 2 shields @ $58 each (New D:S=18:29 (27+2) = $62 )
Sell 1 of 1 commerce @ $40 (New D:S= 18:42 (41+1) = $43 )

	23-08-2002 16:50									#135
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Edit : updated trade orders.

Spiffor's Woodworks
Turn #: 002
Holdings:
Tile 003b Apolyton W, Forest, Road.
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
Cash: $230
Debt: -$1200 (10% interest, 14 turns remaining on grace period)


Administered by: Spiffor

---
Production this turn: 1food, 2 shield, 1 commerce
---
Proposed Deals:

Sell 1 of food @ $45 each (Unchanged D:S=26:52= $50 )
Sell 2 of 2 shields @ $55 each (Unchanged D:S = 18/29= $62)
Sell 1 of 1 commerce @ $40 (Unchanged D:S = 20/42= $48)

Use $230 to pay off debt.

advice : commerce demand is 20, not 18. This was a mistake in Ghengis' post for the account of the Jungle Gazette.

Last edited by Spiffor on 23-08-2002 at 16:57

	23-08-2002 17:15									#136
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I've done an inquiry on the figures, and here are the updated Supplies :

Food :
35 + 1(Spiffor) + 2(jdd2007) + 2(Kramerman) + 2(Epistax) + 2(Kloreep) + 1(Jonny) + 5(Ghengis) + 2(Jungle Gazette) + 2(NYE) + 2(Frances) = 56

Shields :
35 + 2(Spiffor) + 2(Kramerman) + 1(Kloreep) + 3(Jonny) + 2 (Frances) = 29

Commerce :
23 + 1(Spiffor) + 5(jdd2007) + 3(Kramerman) + 1(Epistax) + 1(Kloreep) + 2(Jonny) + 2(Ghengis) + 2(Jungle Gazette) + 4(NYE) + 1(Frances) = 45


jdd : how come you can sell commerce ? I don't remind your lands have roads or rivers (as per captain's assessments)

	23-08-2002 18:12									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Franses If I understand this correctly (it depends on how you define the ending market price, I assume here default price), the above is not a good solution. Let me give a simple example: Food demand 15 Food supply 15 Default price $100 First guy offers 5 food at $40. Second guy offers 5 food at $30. Third guy offers 5 food at "ending market price". Final default price (=ending market price???): 15/30=$50. So third guy gets $49 as his price???? Quite unfair (unless all of us get this price as I proposed in another post) A solution to this could be "ending market price=lowest price offered - 1$" but be carefull: Some of us (I for one) will offer 1$ if they feel this is in their interest (harming competition).

The price is the "ENDING PRICE" meaning whatever the market price closes at INCLUDING the product "sold at ending price" which for food would probably be in the $40-50 range. Then they get a $5 or 10% fee taken out, that way anyone who actually adjusted their bids throughout the session should make more than those who simply sold at ending price.

Maybe the fee should be steeper, say $10 or 10% whichever is greater?

quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Franses The default and minimum price for labour is $100. If I understand it correctly there is no D:S in this case but you do have to bid more than the default price. Highest bidder wins.

No he did it right, demand is determined by the nobles, the more bidding for labor the higher the rate, when I bid for 3 labor the price jumped to $29 per labor, so he has to up his proposal to $29 for 1 labor or risk not getting any workers. Captain posted an example in one of the first two pages.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor advice : commerce demand is 20, not 18. This was a mistake in Ghengis' post for the account of the Jungle Gazette.

Oops, looked at the wrong demand line.
The rate appears to be correct though.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor jdd : how come you can sell commerce ? I don't remind your lands have roads or rivers (as per captain's assessments)

He owns the three jungle tiles along the river, W-NW of Tass. He should also sell ALL of his food, because according to my calculations we only produce 28, the exact amount of demand, so we can sell it all.

Commerce would appear to be the only thing we have in excess this turn.

	23-08-2002 18:19									#138
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GhengisFarb is it possible to hire you to deal with my estate?

	23-08-2002 18:34									#139
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb The price is the "ENDING PRICE" meaning whatever the market price closes at INCLUDING the product "sold at ending price" which for food would probably be in the $40-50 range.

I still do not understand but will wait and see the result. As long as this price (excluding the fee) is lower than everybody elses, I do not mind.

quote: Captain posted an example in one of the first two pages.

Indeed he did. It is in rule number 8 of the rules and reads:
Example: Bubba wants to convert 10 shields into a silo. Alfredo wants to convert 10 shields into warehouse. There are only 15 heads of labourers. Bubba offers to pay $10 more than the default price, Alfredo offers $15 more. So Alfredo gets the ten workers while Bubba is only left with five.

Now note that both offer more than the Default price. And the default price is $100. What else should he have defined a default price for?

	23-08-2002 18:36									#140
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Well then I am forced to stick with the supply/demand price for my items, because I can't tell what the things are.

Food demand = Pop * 2, so what are the other demands? Are we going with Spiff's revamped supply quantities or not?

	23-08-2002 20:12									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Captain GF, $100 base rate if you are the only one hiring, that's 1/13 =6.6%. 6.6% of 100$ is only 7$ rounded to nearest dollar. that's pretty cheap. of course, that assumes no one else is hiring. i'm sure you can work something out with your fellow nobles.

Here's the clarification and example on labor.

Demand(4) (Nobles have attempted to hire 4 labor units) / Supply(14)

D:S 4/14 = $29 MINIMUM

If nobles attempt to hire the entire labor supply it would be
D:S 14/14 = $100 MINIMUM

If nobles wanted to hire more than supply then a bidding war would ensue and Labor would be allocated to the highest bidders over the minimum. You must pay the minimum final price or higher.

	23-08-2002 20:31									#142
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Here's the clarification and example on labor.

OK, in that case I change my orders to (using Spiffors numbers):

Estate of Franses
Turn #: 002
Holdings: Tile 002, NE Apolyton, Bonus Grassland (mine, rd)
Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
Cash: $245
Debt: -$1100 (10% interest, 14 turns remaining on grace period)
Buildings: None

Administered by: Franses

Production this turn: 2 food, 2 shield, 1 commerce
---
Proposed Deals:

Sell 2 of 2 food @ $45 each (New D:S=26:56 = $46 )
Sell 0 of 2 shields (New D:S=18:29 (27-2) = $66 )
Sell 1 of 1 commerce @ $45 (New D:S= 20:42 (41+1) = $48 )
Hire 2 labourers for $44 each. (new D:S=6/14=$43)

	23-08-2002 21:21									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik GhengisFarb is it possible to hire you to deal with my estate?

Make an offer.

	23-08-2002 21:50									#144
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb code: Estate of GhengisFarb Turn #: 002 Holdings: Tile 004 Apolyton NW, Grassland Tile 015 Termina NE3, Jungle Tile 026 BHQ N, Mountain Stockpile: 0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce Civman2000 Estate (currently renting) Stockpile: 2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce Cash: $200 Debt: -$1000 (10% interest, 15 turns remaining on grace period) Administered by: GhengisFarb --- Production this turn: 3 food, 1 shield, 0 commerce Civman2000 Estate (currently renting) Production this turn: 2 food, 1 shield, 1 commerce --- Proposed Deals: Sell 5(of 5) food @ $44 each (New D:S = 26/48 = $58) Sell 2(of 2) commerce @ $46 (New D:S = 20/39 = $51) Hire 3 labor for Apolyton at $29 each (New D:S = 4/14 = $29)

Changing Proposed Deals to:
Sell 5(of 5) food @ $44 each (New D:S = 26/48 = $44)
Sell 0(of 2) commerce (New D:S = 20/43 = $47)
^^^Now at equilibrium, any more brought on market will mean Nobles are trying to sell MORE commerce than demanded.
Hire 3 labor at $44 each (New D:S = 6/14 = $43)

	23-08-2002 22:01									#145
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code:

Epistan Plantation, Turn 2.  Admin: Epistax
+Update+
Selling:
     2 Food  @ 44/ea
     0 Shld  @ N/A/ea
     1 Comm  @ 45/ea
D/S Unchanged

	23-08-2002 23:33									#146
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FREE MARKET UPDATE
by Fineous Fhrogge & Fistaschuer, Commodity Consultants

Food Market
D:S 28/56(35+21) = $50

Not much risk this trading session as Producers generate 28 food and the Market demands 28 food. The only food producers losing money in this market are either too lazy or too greedy" -Filbert Fineous


Shield Market
D:S 18/27(19+8) = $67

"Show me the money! The shield market continues to be the Hundred-aire maker and with new construction starts forcing our lard-butt labor market to actually do something the future looks good." -Leaph Fhrogge


Commerce Market
D:S 20/43(23+20) = $47

"Market has currently stabilized, but supply definitely could exceed demand. Watch out for a possible price war cause somebody's going to be stuck holding on to their commerce for another turn." - Elbert Fistaschuer


Labor Market
D:S 6/14 = $43

"What they thinking, asking us to do work? I done been in this Labor Market since da beginning and dis is the foist time anybudy told me ta do somethin." - Random Labor Worker

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 24-08-2002 at 00:21

	24-08-2002 00:05									#147
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Great post GF.

At some point in the thread someone altered the food demand from 28 to 26 and it remained that way from then on, I suppose. But you detected it!!

I might change my proposals now but I won't. It does not feel good to change so close to the closure time to those who did not notice. But the next time .......

	24-08-2002 00:12									#148
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

im now selling 3 food at $40 a pop

	24-08-2002 00:27									#149
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Edit: deleted as transaction took place 5 min after the 24-hour mark.

UNLESS SOMEONE HAS AN OBJECTION TO THE EXACTLY 24 HOUR RULE THIS SESSION IS OVER.

	24-08-2002 00:33									#150
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How did I get 2 commerce?