12-09-2002 05:55									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin The location of the Live Role Playing Game was between Rodez and Millau a few kilometers away from "Severac Le Chateau" (actually in the "Aveyron" and not in the "Gers" as I told it earlier).

And these places are just up the road from you! They're a 20-hour plane flight and thousands of dollars away from me!

Perhaps you can tell me, Tamerlin, why are there so many towns called Puy - well, towns with Puy in the name, like Puybrun for example - a bit further north?

quote: How lucky they are, Toulouse is a wonderful town with a great history, of course I'am a bit biased.

You have every right to be.

	12-09-2002 06:00									#62
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And you could catch up with Tamerlin for a pint of bitter!

	12-09-2002 12:43									#63
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It told me the page didn't exist but from the URL I guess it's a bar job in one of that chain of pubs?

No one (with an interest in their profits) would let me behind their bar.

quote: but their real test will be the harder pitches out here with much more bounce in them. Not to mention a couple of handy quicks barging in at them

Heck yes. No one is denying that. It's still probably the most capable side we have fielded in an Ashes series for a while - we may even only lose 4.5-0.5 if we get lucky.

Cricket is the reverse of Rugby - you have the strength in depth. We pick the best of what we have. And as you say when Flintoff gets in thats show what we have.

Nasser was taken to task by the media (and a certain Mr Botham) for his negative tactics in the last test.

Only in rugby indeed - the ABs risking all for tradition. Mind you I recall in 2000 we made a detour from our South African tour to play a one off test against you to mark the centenary of our fixtures? I still don't understand why they didn't make you come to us for it (so we could win).

As for the Frog and Roast Beef salutations between English and French I am fairly sure it does go back to the Napoleonic wars (maybe earlier) and is a prime example of the "you are what you eat" way of labeling nationalities - so the Aussies might be "Shrimps" and the New Zealanders "Sheep".

Hmm hold on that doesn't sound quite right...

	12-09-2002 15:51									#64
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Perhaps you can tell me, Tamerlin, why are there so many towns called Puy - well, towns with Puy in the name, like Puybrun for example - a bit further north?

I suppose, after a look in the dictionnary, that the prefix "Puy" is linked to "Mountain". Actually, the name "Puy" is a moutain in "Auvergne". Locations like "Puybrun", "Puycelsi" are certainly situated on top of a hill or on a mountain dominating a valley, hence the prefix.

I will try to gather more informations on this topic.

	12-09-2002 16:37									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It told me the page didn't exist but from the URL I guess it's a bar job in one of that chain of pubs?

Bugger! I found the website this morning. It was a page offering jobs in the "Frog and Rosbeef" place in Toulouse that Tamerlin was talking about. I'll see if I can find it again.

Edit. Another try: http://www.anyworkanywhere.com/frogrosbif_t.html

quote: No one (with an interest in their profits) would let me behind their bar.

Well, your reputation would have travelled ahead of you. They'd've had you slaughtering the beef.

quote: Cricket is the reverse of Rugby - you have the strength in depth. We pick the best of what we have.

The difference here being that cricket is played absolutely everywhere from a very, very young age.

quote: And as you say when Flintoff gets in thats show what we have.

I have, for my sins, seen a lot of England on FoxSports over the last 12 months. I've seen a lot of Flintoff. I've never understood why he's being picked. He's not up to it with either bat or ball.

quote: so the Aussies might be "Shrimps"

Make that prawns. Shrimp is the American version. I've never taken to them, m'self.

	12-09-2002 17:01									#66
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quote: They'd've had you slaughtering the beef.

Which is fair enough. The trouble would come if I was asked to slaughter Frogs. There could be some cultural misunderstandings there.

quote: cricket is played absolutely everywhere from a very, very young age.

Too ture. And it's hardly played here at all as you know. The grass roots game is dying and state schools long since started ignoring it.

Unfortunately I can't get too worked up about that - if Rugby used to be socially exclusive here then Cricket defined the meaning of the expression in the first place.

The way I see Flintoffs selection is...blind hope. Ever since Beefy retired they have been searching for the mythical all rounder for England. Yes, definitely hope over experience.

Prawn? Okay. So it's "throw another Prawn on the barby"? A whole generation of English sketch writers will need to take note there!

Back on topic I see Roff has signed for ACT again.

And the Irish coach has been savaging his boys after they beat Romania 39-8. Remember they have set their sights on being England's closest home nation rival and England tucked Romania away 134-0 last November in the middle autumn game.

A similar score to us in the middle game this year is unlikely - however many senior players you leave at home.

	12-09-2002 17:33									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Too ture. And it's hardly played here at all as you know. The grass roots game is dying and state schools long since started ignoring it.

Very sad. I can't imagine why.

quote: Prawn? Okay. So it's "throw another Prawn on the barby"? A whole generation of English sketch writers will need to take note there!

The "shrimp on the barby" thing grew out of an ad campaign by the Tourist Commission aimed at the American market. Yet another myth built up a head of steam.

quote: Back on topic I see Roff has signed for ACT again.

Always was. Claims he's refreshed and ready to roll. If Ben Tune can stay fit, and if Roff hasn't lost too much, I like our look out wide. Back to RL with you, Wendell.

quote: And the Irish coach has been savaging his boys after they beat Romania 39-8. Remember they have set their sights on being England's closest home nation rival and England tucked Romania away 134-0 last November in the middle autumn game.

What's wrong with the Irish? And I'm not joking.

Here's that link for your part-time job. It works because I tried it. I re-posted it back in the earlier post, but who goes back over old posts in this thread?

http://www.anyworkanywhere.com/frogrosbif_t.html

	12-09-2002 18:02									#68
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Oh, per-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!

One Tigers supporter is enough eh Finbar?

	12-09-2002 18:06									#69
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I just had a look at the Tri-Nations draw. On paper, it favours the Wallabies and disadvantages the All Blacks. They start against the Boks at altitude over there, then play us here in Sydney one week later. That's an ask. We have a week off between matches. Apparently the All Blacks wanted the draw coreographed that way in order for the Bledisloe return match to be played in Auckland on the 100th anniversary of Tests between New Zealand and Australia.

So perhaps the draw favors NZ to win back the Bledisloe. Will winning the Tri-nations still be less important to you than winning the Bledisloe next year?

	12-09-2002 18:14									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And the Irish coach has been savaging his boys after they beat Romania 39-8. Remember they have set their sights on being England's closest home nation rival and England tucked Romania away 134-0 last November in the middle autumn game.

It really is a shame what has become of Romanian rugby. Before the collapse of the Soviet Union their team was right up there with the very best.

The Irish have been improving a lot lately, but I think they are still below England and France.

	12-09-2002 19:43									#71
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quote: Very sad. I can't imagine why.

For the schools it because the curriculum is being crammed with nonsense that takes all the time up.

quote: Yet another myth built up a head of steam.

Neatly demonstrates the power of advertising though eh? Well that and red coats on Santa Claus thanks to Coca Cola.

quote: If Ben Tune can stay fit, and if Roff hasn't lost too much, I like our look out wide

The best compliment I can pay both men is that I would be happier if neither faced England.

quote: What's wrong with the Irish? And I'm not joking.

I think they have had such success – the National team playing so well and the province system working and giving them more European progress – that they are on a natural downward phase. It will recover.

Caligastia is right – you cannot rank them up with England or France as the consistency is not there. You can never write them off at home at least (which is where I will watch us play them in March). I felt they met the ABs at the wrong time – had it been last October it would have been a better tour for them.

quote: but who goes back over old posts in this thread?

Actually I did.

I think my better half might have something to say about the radical pay cut.

One Tigers fan is never enough – so keep annoying Finbar please Caligastia.

	12-09-2002 19:54									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Havak One Tigers fan is never enough – so keep annoying Finbar please Caligastia.

For me, annoying Finbar comes naturally.

	13-09-2002 04:39									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia So perhaps the draw favors NZ to win back the Bledisloe. Will winning the Tri-nations still be less important to you than winning the Bledisloe next year?

Here's the draw:

July 12 - SA -v- Australia (Cape Town)

July 19 - SA -v- NZ (Pretoria)

July 26 - Australia -v- NZ (Sydney)

August 2 - Australia -v- SA (Perth)

August 9 - NZ -v- SA (Dunedin)

August 16 - NZ -v- Australia (Auckland)

In terms of the Tri-Nations, Australia is probably favoured. NZ and SA both have to do a lot of travelling and playing within a week - NZ between July 19 and 26, and SA between August 2 and 9 (it's a bloody long way from Perth to Dunedin, though both cities, luckily, are firmly rooted in 1973 so there shouldn't be any culture shock).

But an advantage only exists if one subscribes to the theory that travelling long distance and playing within a week is a handicap.

In terms of the Bledisloe, given the proviso above, Australia is probably also favoured. NZ only has one week off after July 19. That would have to be weighed against the fact that the Bledisloe return match is played in NZ with all the psychological benefit that brings.

Ultimately, who knows? These things have been speculated about before with mixed results.

In answer to your question, Cal, I suspect most Wallaby - and, for that matter, All Black - supporters put the Bledisloe in front of the Tri-Nations. History is on the Bledisloe's side.

	13-09-2002 04:55									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Havak For the schools it because the curriculum is being crammed with nonsense that takes all the time up.

How much rugby is played in schools? Or has sport, as a whole, gone by the board in favour of instruction in the modern arts of greed, selfishness and intolerance?

quote: The best compliment I can pay both men is that I would be happier if neither faced England.

I'll pass that on!

quote: I think they have had such success – the National team playing so well and the province system working and giving them more European progress – that they are on a natural downward phase. It will recover.

Fair enough, but tossing Scotland and Wales into the equation, it's odd that. given the background and resources, the lows can be so low over there.

quote: I think my better half might have something to say about the radical pay cut.

But you fail to factor in the unquestionable benefits of Tamerlin's presence.

quote: One Tigers fan is never enough – so keep annoying Finbar please Caligastia.

There's an old saying - "Empty jugs make the most sound". Now I know why the plural.

	13-09-2002 04:58									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia For me, annoying Finbar comes naturally.

(see above)

	13-09-2002 06:00									#76
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quote: Originally posted by finbar In answer to your question, Cal, I suspect most Wallaby - and, for that matter, All Black - supporters put the Bledisloe in front of the Tri-Nations. History is on the Bledisloe's side.

True, but I only really got into watching rugby regularly in 95, so SA were the big rivals around that time. You would have seen me cheering for Australia back then. Because of this I rate the Tri-nations more highly than the Bledisloe.

	13-09-2002 06:22									#77
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Fair enough. As time goes by, though, I suspect you will lean towards the Bledisloe.

Jeez, with the way this thread is galloping along, we're going to have to start thinking about the next thread title.

How about Rugby - The Education of Havak.

	13-09-2002 06:26									#78
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Fair enough. As time goes by, though, I suspect you will lean towards the Bledisloe. Jeez, with the way this thread is galloping along, we're going to have to start thinking about the next thread title. How about Rugby - The Education of Havak.

Didnt we torment him enough with the "Game they play in heaven" thread?

How about Rugby - The game New Zealand taught Australia

	13-09-2002 06:42									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Didnt we torment him enough with the "Game they play in heaven" thread?

Methinks this is a case of when too much torment is never enough.

quote: How about Rugby - The game New Zealand taught Australia

Too predictable.

How about Rugby - Yet Another Game They Invented And Now Can't Play!

	13-09-2002 07:30									#80
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quote: Originally posted by finbar How about Rugby - Yet Another Game They Invented And Now Can't Play!

It has a ring to it, but being a benevolent dictator I like to be as democratic as possible and I have my doubts about Havak's affection for this one...

	13-09-2002 07:57									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia benevolent dictator ... democratic ...

Methinks a case of oxymoronitis.

quote: and I have my doubts about Havak's affection for this one.

But you forget one thing - Havak is, above all else, a realist.

	13-09-2002 08:01									#82
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Methinks a case of oxymoronitis.

Yes, its terminal I'm afraid...

	13-09-2002 13:25									#83
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quote: I suspect most Wallaby…supporters put the Bledisloe in front of the Tri-Nations

I really can see where they come from on this.

Having said that NZ were the class side of the Tri-nations this year and they deserve the accolades for winning the tournament.

quote: How much rugby is played in schools? Or has sport, as a whole, gone by the board in favour of instruction in the modern arts of greed, selfishness and intolerance?

In PhyEd sessions very little rugby – and what there is is tag rugby as gender barred sports cannot occur in PE these days.

Most schools at higher secondary level (14+) seem to have rugby teams though and the University level is thriving. Part of the problem at schools is teacher morale is so low and their pay so appalling that no one wants to run extra curricular activities. I don’t blame them.

Without wanting to upset Caligastia too much this is what happens when you have 22 years and counting of inappropriate taxation policy. At the end of the day someone has to invest in our future and we as taxpayers all need to shoulder that responsibility.

So yeah the latter part of your sentence is correct – I call it the ‘Conservitisation’ of our country – self,self,self all the damn time. You can see it in several of the bright young University Brits on these boards – rabid tories without any understanding that without the greater part of society being nurtured their ‘self-reliance’ beliefs would be worth diddly (no one to cream off of).

Oops – sorry, hit rant mode!

quote: I'll pass that on!

Could you put in a word for Tigers if they are looking at Super-annuation after RWC?

quote: the lows can be so low over there.

How so? All three Celtic nations (treating Ireland as one island) put together lack the population of Australia. Couple that with footballs total pre-eminence in Scotland and the fact that Gaelic football and hurling take top spot in Ireland and they find themselves in a similar boat to the ARU. And Wales have a massive handicap – the WRU.

After all we haven’t forgot that the Wallabies struggle in cycles even if they have – remember 96-97?

quote: But you fail to factor in the unquestionable benefits of Tamerlin's presence.

No arguments here – I’m sure Tamerlin’s company would more than compensate for starvation wages.

Well I thought Caligastia’s line was excellent – but the empty jugs riposte was class I admit

Away at Sale tonight – not televised so I’m reduced to the (totally unbiased) Radio Leicester. Out of 17 league fixtures we have won 14 and drawn 2. All their points taken off us have come at their place. Ever feel you are ripe for a fall?

	13-09-2002 14:39									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Havak In PhyEd sessions very little rugby – and what there is is tag rugby as gender barred sports cannot occur in PE these days.

So some 6' 1", 14 stone lass called Shirley is prevented from turning some 5' 5", 6 stone lad called Toby inside out? Shame.

quote: Without wanting to upset Caligastia too much

Go for your life. I've tried and failed.

quote: So yeah the latter part of your sentence is correct – I call it the ‘Conservitisation’ of our country – self,self,self all the damn time. You can see it in several of the bright young University Brits on these boards – rabid tories without any understanding that without the greater part of society being nurtured their ‘self-reliance’ beliefs would be worth diddly (no one to cream off of). Oops – sorry, hit rant mode!

Couldn't agree more with any of it. Actually, I've had a fine time today boring it up some Yanks in one of the other threads - pointing out that the current push against Iraq is purely oil-based and just another episode of American self-interest. One of them got just a tad annoyed. [/off topic]

quote: Could you put in a word for Tigers if they are looking at Super-annuation after RWC?

Superannuation packages are going to be few and far between over there if you bring in those restrictions on foreign players. Actually, I wonder if restricting the supply will push up the prices.

quote: How so? All three Celtic nations (treating Ireland as one island) put together lack the population of Australia. Couple that with footballs total pre-eminence in Scotland and the fact that Gaelic football and hurling take top spot in Ireland and they find themselves in a similar boat to the ARU.

True. I'd forgotten all that. Give them some population, you greedy buggers!

quote: After all we haven’t forgot that the Wallabies struggle in cycles even if they have – remember 96-97?

Well, yes, but not quite to the depths that the Celts have plumbed lately.

quote: Away at Sale tonight – not televised so I’m reduced to the (totally unbiased) Radio Leicester. Out of 17 league fixtures we have won 14 and drawn 2. All their points taken off us have come at their place. Ever feel you are ripe for a fall?

Mmmm. I'll just slip over to the website and see who my Gloucester lads are going to burn this week.

Edit. Mmmmmmmmm. Newcastle. I'd expect a win. A broken leg for their fly-half wouldn't go astray either.

	13-09-2002 15:42									#85
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Actually I’m grateful to Cal for defending me. My poor ears can’t handle all the realism flowing my way.

quote: But you forget one thing - Havak is, above all else, a realist.

I am – but I’m also an optimist – hope over experience and all that. So I’m an ‘optimistic realist’ – and we are straight back into oxymoron territory?

After the autumn series therefore I am hoping we can name a thread Rugby – the game they invented and are certainly the best in the world at

Realistic we may have to name it Rugby – they invented it and are now damn competitive

quote: So some 6' 1", 14 stone lass called Shirley is prevented from turning some 5' 5", 6 stone lad called Toby inside out? Shame.

Indeed – though not for Toby of course.

quote: Go for your life. I've tried and failed.

Actually, between us, I want to keep him on board so that even if we lose to the ABs he is still onside for us against your lot. Don’t let on okay?

On the off-topic – have fun but you know you are wasting your time. Ask them for me why the illegal Turkish occupation of Cyprus is any different to Kuwait will you?

One of the best signs of emotional and intellectual maturity is being able to look at and constructively criticise aspects of your own country. So how many mature posters haunt Apolyton?

quote: Actually, I wonder if restricting the supply will push up the prices.

Not really possible – all the squads are salary capped. I suspect any restriction will be on the number of non-EC players on the field at any one time rather than a set number per squad. And we are not able to restrict EC nationals at all so we can happily field fifteen Frenchmen in a side if we wish.

quote: Give them some population, you greedy buggers!

I’ve never been that clear why their pops have remained so low – after all Ireland is a big surface area, as is Scotland. I guess the allegation, certainly in respect to Scots and the Welsh, is that we left them with the poorest land in the poorest climates – large parts of both countries are useless for agriculture etc – and in Wales it rains whenever the English are there – ask any Welshman.

quote: Newcastle. I'd expect a win. A broken leg for their fly-half wouldn't go astray either.

I’d agree with the former, though they are tougher up there than on the road, but lets not have the latter please – even though we do play his side next week.

It might not work for you – I suspect Jones knows nothing about the sub Charlie Hodgson – but he is a very subtly different player and may catch you out.

So you are a ‘Shed’ (Main stand at Kingsholm) boy then? Decent choice, excellent side.

This is worth a read by the way
Woodward on RWC and captains

	13-09-2002 16:31									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Havak After the autumn series therefore I am hoping we can name a thread Rugby – the game they invented and are certainly the best in the world at

Delete Rugby, insert Meglomaniacal Prime Minister and I'll second you on it.

quote: Realistic we may have to name it Rugby – they invented it and are now damn competitive

Well, you said it. You're an optimist.

quote: Actually, between us, I want to keep him on board so that even if we lose to the ABs he is still onside for us against your lot. Don’t let on okay?

Listen, I could offer to provide Kiri TeKanawa to sing at his birthday party, Sean Fitzpatrick to do the washing up afterwards and Frank Bunce to read him his bedtime story and he'd still barrack against us.

quote: On the off-topic – have fun but you know you are wasting your time.

Oh, I know that. I just like telling them the truth. I'm building up the courage to ask them why there haven't been any memorial services for the thousands slaughtered in Chile under Pinochet as a direct result of them overthrowing a democratically-elected government.

I'm actually starting to miss the Cold War. Two bullies in the playground keeping each other busy are always better than one with no one to stand up to him.

quote: Ask them for me why the illegal Turkish occupation of Cyprus is any different to Kuwait will you?

They wouldn't know whether either Turkey or Cyprus are. And we both know that Cyprus doesn't have any oil reserves.

quote: One of the best signs of emotional and intellectual maturity is being able to look at and constructively criticise aspects of your own country. So how many mature posters haunt Apolyton?

quote: I guess the allegation, certainly in respect to Scots and the Welsh, is that we left them with the poorest land in the poorest climates

You mean you didn't bother occupying the crap bits? Very sensible. Actually, re the History of GB, have you traced your ancestors back? Did they come off a Danish boat swinging a monster axe? Or pop across the channel? Are you, in fact, distantly related to Tamerlin and LDiCesares?

quote: but lets not have the latter please – even though we do play his side next week.

I was thinking in terms of a massive compound fracture, something to keep him out till at least December.

quote: So you are a ‘Shed’ (Main stand at Kingsholm) boy then? Decent choice, excellent side.

I had to go with someone, and, as I said, I have friends there. I've never asked them about rugby. She's Australian (originally) and he's an engineer. On that basis, being educated, I s'pose there's a fair chance he's into rugby.

	13-09-2002 16:37									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Havak This is worth a read by the way Woodward on RWC and captains

Sensible words. I would imagine that, if Jonno is fit and in half-decent form, he'll be there. But as the man rightly says - it's a long, long way down the track.

	13-09-2002 16:45									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Havak So how many mature posters haunt Apolyton?

I suppose the ratio of mature/immature people posting here is the same as in real life. This means mature posters on Apolyton are but a few if not among the fewest.

	13-09-2002 17:21									#89
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quote: insert Meglomaniacal Prime Minister and I'll second you on it.

The only flaw in that of course is that it is President Blair these days.

quote: a direct result of them overthrowing a democratically-elected government.

Most of them don’t know of their involvement it that and simply will not believe anyone who tells them.

quote: are always better than one with no one to stand up to him.

A terrific analogy.

I had better not get involved. I’m very fond of them on the whole. It’s a strange world view though (at a less sensitive time I’ll tell you some amusing stories of cultural differences) – and they generally have no idea how thoroughly big business runs their government and foreign policy.

quote: And we both know that Cyprus doesn't have any oil reserves.

Only Olive Oil.

quote: …didn't bother occupying the crap bits? Very sensible

This is the root reason of course but it does allow them to claim they were never conquered.

quote: I was thinking in terms of a massive compound fracture, something to keep him out till at least December

Well I guess with Larkham out we should not play Jonny. Persuade Clive to play Austin there – you will walk it.

If the guy is natively from that area a very strong chance he is into the Rugger I would say. I’ll keep an eye on Gloucester and give you full match reports when we play them.

quote: But as the man rightly says - it's a long, long way down the track.

What I like is the restraint. Before the last RWC he was very outspoken. One freeze against the ABs and a flukey performance from one De Beer later and he looked very very silly indeed. Wise to underplay it this time.

quote: I suppose the ratio of mature/immature people posting here is the same as in real life. This means mature posters on Apolyton are but a few if not among the fewest.

Well put Tamerlin.

	13-09-2002 18:04									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Having said that NZ were the class side of the Tri-nations this year and they deserve the accolades for winning the tournament.

Heh, no comment from Finbar on this one...

quote: Without wanting to upset Caligastia too much this is what happens when you have 22 years and counting of inappropriate taxation policy. At the end of the day someone has to invest in our future and we as taxpayers all need to shoulder that responsibility. So yeah the latter part of your sentence is correct – I call it the ‘Conservitisation’ of our country – self,self,self all the damn time. You can see it in several of the bright young University Brits on these boards – rabid tories without any understanding that without the greater part of society being nurtured their ‘self-reliance’ beliefs would be worth diddly (no one to cream off of). Oops – sorry, hit rant mode!

Ah, dont worry about it. I over-reacted when you guys first mentioned politics in this thread. I was probably just worried that we would lose the excellent tone this thread has, but now I reckon theres no danger of that.