13-09-2002 18:07									#91
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Heres another thread title idea - Rugby - English hope springs eternal

	13-09-2002 19:24									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I suppose the ratio of mature/immature people posting here is the same as in real life. This means mature posters on Apolyton are but a few if not among the fewest.

Present company - and absent friends - excepted, natch.

	13-09-2002 19:33									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The only flaw in that of course is that it is President Blair these days.

He has turned into a scary, scary individual. I haven't seen such outright meglomania in a long time.

quote: Most of them don’t know of their involvement it that and simply will not believe anyone who tells them.

I was born to (a) explain their wholesale foreign policy bastardry to them; and (b) re-explain it to them, endlessly.

quote: I had better not get involved. I’m very fond of them on the whole. It’s a strange world view though (at a less sensitive time I’ll tell you some amusing stories of cultural differences) – and they generally have no idea how thoroughly big business runs their government and foreign policy.

The average one, I've found, is polite, personable and blissful in his or her pig ignorance of actually how much bastardry their government perpetrates. Their current government is the most corrupt imaginable.

	13-09-2002 19:38									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Heh, no comment from Finbar on this one...

I let that one go through to the keeper. I've known Havak - in the cyber sense - for quite a while. I've found it best to humour him in his delusions. There's only so much ether out there, after all, and we can't have it clogged with endless facts of life being eternally explained.

quote: Ah, dont worry about it.

As if we did!

	13-09-2002 19:40									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Heres another thread title idea - Rugby - English hope springs eternal

One minor tweak, Cal.

Rugby - English hope springs a leak.

	13-09-2002 19:42									#96
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The average one, I've found, is polite, personable and blissful in his or her pig ignorance of actually how much bastardry their government perpetrates. Their current government is the most corrupt imaginable.

Actually Bangladesh is the most corrupt in the world, with the US only coming in 16th.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1410390.stm

"Each of the 91 countries listed is given a mark out of 10 to indicate a lack of corruption in public life.

Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Iceland and Singapore all fare well scoring above nine - but Bangladesh comes bottom with just 0.4."



Here is the full listing if anyone is interested.

http://www.transparency.org/pressre....28.cpi.en.html

	13-09-2002 19:50									#97
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I heard those corruption rankings a couple of weeks ago. I'm talking about a different sort of corruption. More of the moral kind - the insidious influences of corporations, the hypocrisy, and the veiled self-interest.

	13-09-2002 19:51									#98
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That listing is in order from least corrupt to most corrupt BTW, so actually the US is perceived as being the 16th least corrupt country.

	13-09-2002 19:55									#99
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quote: Originally posted by finbar One minor tweak, Cal. Rugby - English hope springs a leak.

Heh, I was also thinking of Rugby - English optimism springs eternal

Perhaps we should go with Rugby - English optimism springs a leak

	13-09-2002 19:58									#100
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I heard those corruption rankings a couple of weeks ago. I'm talking about a different sort of corruption. More of the moral kind - the insidious influences of corporations, the hypocrisy, and the veiled self-interest.

I know what you mean. Unfortunately its an integral part of the way things work here in the US. Its present in other countries too of course, but here its a part of the culture.

	14-09-2002 07:45									#101
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Very true. And it's a culture they seek to impose on others. That's the big problem. With the bigger problem being that no one has the economic or military clout to stop them.

	14-09-2002 14:05									#102
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I'm talking about a different sort of corruption. More of the moral kind - the insidious influences of corporations, the hypocrisy, and the veiled self-interest.

For this trophy, every country in this world is competing for the first place and there is no second division or second rate player...

	14-09-2002 19:48									#103
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Back on topic -

Leicester, surprisingly, went down to the Sharks 16-29. I look forward to Havak's report with great interest.

BTW, Havak, I watched the Sydney club match of the day on TV today. Sydney Uni -v- Randwick, two of our oldest and most successful clubs. Pat Howard plays for Uni. He was at fly-half, did well, and seemed to enjoy himself getting very involved in the play-making. It's really where he belongs. Phil Waugh plays for Uni, too, and got through his first or second match back from the injury.

Last edited by finbar on 14-09-2002 at 19:53

	15-09-2002 02:59									#104
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The Stade Toulousain has won its first match away from home against the neighbours Mont-de-Marsan 42-6 after a great second period.

This victory is important but is not a surprise, it was even expected, as Montauban was playing in Pro D2 (second division) last year.

Last edited by Tamerlin on 15-09-2002 at 22:16

	15-09-2002 03:03									#105
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Hey Tamerlin, how was the first row?

	15-09-2002 06:34									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin The Stade Toulousain has won its first match away from home against the neighbours Montauban 42-6 after a great second period. This victory is important but is not a surprise, it was even expected, as Montauban was playing in Pro D2 (second division) last year.

Now I just have to get Gloucester over the line for a perfect weekend for my teams!

	15-09-2002 22:21									#107
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Hey Tamerlin, how was the first row?

I haven't seen the match but I have read that the scrum has behaved adequately and has dominated its rival. I will learn more on this monday with the "Midi Olympique".

On the bad side, as last week, the rear lines have been rather clumsy. According to the newspaper, the score is not really reflecting Mont-de-Marsan's performance as they could have scored two tries during the first period.

	16-09-2002 00:02									#108
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I wouldn't worry too much about the backs. It takes more time to get back moves working properly than to incorporate a new prop. They can only get better as the season advances, and Toulouse still has very good backs. They just have to "trouver leurs marques" (sorry, I can't think of an English translation now but Tamerlin will understand).

	16-09-2002 00:25									#109
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare ..."trouver leurs marques" (sorry, I can't think of an English translation now but Tamerlin will understand).

You are right but this is becoming a kind of chronical problem for the Stade Toulousain. Last year, important games were lost because of the clumsiness of the rear lines and their inability to find a solution. Wait and see...

	16-09-2002 03:41									#110
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare They just have to "trouver leurs marques" (sorry, I can't think of an English translation now but Tamerlin will understand).

That's an interesting one. In English, literally, it means "to find their marks". Figuratively, I imagine it could mean "to find their feet" or "to find their way" in the sense that they will "settle down and come good". Or, even more figuratively, it could mean "find their range" or "get their eyes in".

	16-09-2002 03:58									#111
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My weekend was made complete by Gloucester's 22-19 win over Newcastle. Narrower than I'd've liked, but a win is a win. Even if I have to thank a Kiwi - Henry Paul - for the win.

Cal - I actually listened to some of the match. If you're interested, you can access BBC local radio coverage of the English matches via this page. All you need is the fixture and scheduled kick-off times, which you'll find here.

	16-09-2002 18:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Very true. And it's a culture they seek to impose on others. That's the big problem. With the bigger problem being that no one has the economic or military clout to stop them.

Unfortunately this part of the american culture is in some measure what has made america so successful. While the selfish profit motive is morally repugnant, I dont think it would be wise to discard it entirely at this stage of human development.

This quote from the Urantia Book sums it up for me:

quote: Present-day profit-motivated economics is doomed unless profit motives can be augmented by service motives. Ruthless competition based on narrow-minded self-interest is ultimately destructive of even those things which it seeks to maintain. Exclusive and self-serving profit motivation is incompatible with Christian ideals--much more incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. In economics, profit motivation is to service motivation what fear is to love in religion. But the profit motive must not be suddenly destroyed or removed; it keeps many otherwise slothful mortals hard at work. It is not necessary, however, that this social energy arouser be forever selfish in its objectives. The profit motive of economic activities is altogether base and wholly unworthy of an advanced order of society; nevertheless, it is an indispensable factor throughout the earlier phases of civilization. Profit motivation must not be taken away from men until they have firmly possessed themselves of superior types of nonprofit motives for economic striving and social serving--the transcendent urges of superlative wisdom, intriguing brotherhood, and excellency of spiritual attainment.

	16-09-2002 18:37									#113
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Cal - I actually listened to some of the match. If you're interested, you can access BBC local radio coverage of the English matches via this page. All you need is the fixture and scheduled kick-off times, which you'll find here.

Thanks for the links, I will give them a listen if I cant get any games on Fox Sports World.

	16-09-2002 18:54									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Unfortunately this part of the american culture is in some measure what has made america so successful. While the selfish profit motive is morally repugnant, I dont think it would be wise to discard it entirely at this stage of human development.

If people want to follow a path, that's fine. That's their choice. My problem is (a) when it is foisted onto others; and (b) others are raped and pillaged in the process.

Back on topic. Where's Havak? Surely he wouldn't take two losses in three games that badly?

	16-09-2002 19:33									#115
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Yeah, whats up with those Tigers Havak?

	17-09-2002 03:58									#116
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You'd be looking for another English team to support, wouldn't you, Cal? Might I suggest my team? Gloucester?

*finbar remains fully aware that this will all come back to bite him on his flabby derrière.*

	17-09-2002 17:46									#117
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Hmmmmm...well they are at the top of the table right now....perhaps I should support them for the sake of trans-tasman camaraderie.

	18-09-2002 05:20									#118
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Leeds is having a handy start to the season, too.

But where's Havak? Has his bad back struck again?

	19-09-2002 18:30									#119
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Auckland vs Canterbury tonight

Go Auckland!!

	19-09-2002 22:09									#120
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The first NZ RWC match is New Zealand v Europe 2

What is europe 2?