20-09-2002 04:02									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia The first NZ RWC match is New Zealand v Europe 2 What is europe 2?

The second of the two European teams that qualify. I think there are 4 spots in the draw for European qualifiers.

In the same way that there have been qualifiers going on with Canada, USA, etc, in the Americas group. Currently, Canada has qualified and either Chile or Uraguay will take the second automatic qualifier spot. USA now can't finish first or second in the group and will have to qualify via repechage if they're going to get there.

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of all the countries either already qualified or trying to qualify:

Africa
South Africa
Ivory Coast
Madagascar
Morocco
Namibia
Tunisia
Zimbabwe

Americas
Argentina
*Canada -Qualified
Chile
Uruguay
USA

Europe
England
France
Scotland
Wales
Czech Republic
Georgia
Poland
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Spain

Asia
China
Hong Kong
*Japan -Qualified
Korea
Chinese Taipei

Oceania
Australia
New Zealand
Cook Islands
*Fiji-Qualified
Papua New Guinea
Tonga
*Samoa-Qualified

The repechage teams from Africa and Europe play off to decide who goes forward to play the repechage team from the Americas.

	20-09-2002 15:08									#122
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It seems I'am no more receiving any mail to signal me someone has replied to this thread I have subscribed to.

I was about to think a particularly violent cataclysm (like Chile Defeating Australia or USA winning against the AB 67-12) had broken all communications between the SH and the NH.

	20-09-2002 18:17									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin It seems I'am no more receiving any mail to signal me someone has replied to this thread I have subscribed to. I was about to think a particularly violent cataclysm (like Chile Defeating Australia or USA winning against the AB 67-12) had broken all communications between the SH and the NH.

What a bizarre dream!

I guess its because international rugby is in a bit of a lull right now. Never mind though, things will pick up when we get closer to the european tours in november.

Finbar Thanks for the breakdown on the RWC pools. I had thought that was what europe 2 meant, but I wasnt sure if the qualifiers were over yet.

	22-09-2002 04:57									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin It seems I'am no more receiving any mail to signal me someone has replied to this thread I have subscribed to. I was about to think a particularly violent cataclysm (like Chile Defeating Australia or USA winning against the AB 67-12) had broken all communications between the SH and the NH.

Sorry, Tamerlin, I was away for a couple of days. And Havak has been missing now for a week. Can you pop across the Channel to Leicester? Leicester isn't a very big place - I'm sure if you wandered up and down the main street calling out "Havak!" very loudly, someone would point you in his direction.

	22-09-2002 04:58									#125
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Egad! Uruguay have a international rugby team?

Well there not chucking us out of this World Cup. Maybe Australia will play them...

	22-09-2002 05:00									#126
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Harlequins d London Irish 29 - 19

Northampton Saints d Bath 24 - 3

Gloucester d Bristol Shoguns 45 - 18

Leicester Tigers d Newcastle Falcons 52 - 9

Leeds Tykes drew Sharks 29 - 29

So, Cal, it looks like the Tigers are back on track, so you can safely jump back onto the bandwagon. While my Gloucester lads sit comfortably at the top of the table.

So the top of the table looks like this:

Gloucester 18
Leeds Tykes 14
Northampton Saints 14
Leicester Tigers 10

Last edited by finbar on 22-09-2002 at 05:08

	22-09-2002 05:29									#127
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Cal, I notice your mob went down 11-18 against Canterbury. Did you see the game?

	22-09-2002 17:52									#128
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The Stade Toulousain has won yesterday its second home game against Colomiers 12-6, certainly the most boring match I have ever seen.

The two teams played as if they had been forced to play and were willing to punish us for this. Handling errors, poor kicks, unstable scrums were all the two teams were able to produce. Yann Delaigue (Stade Toulousain Fly Half) is the only player which seemed to play at his real level. This game is to be forgotten quickly.

Last edited by Tamerlin on 22-09-2002 at 21:30

	22-09-2002 18:37									#129
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But a win's a win, Tamerlin.

	22-09-2002 21:37									#130
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quote: Originally posted by finbar But a win's a win, Tamerlin.

You are right Finbar, but I'am not going to the stadium to get bored and see a kind of parody of our favorite game.


A lost game would have been a real surprise and it could have happen yesterday. Our players have even been booed by the crowd (not by me because I never shout at the players as I consider it's too easy to shout at them while we are comfortably sat on our sit).

	22-09-2002 21:40									#131
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quote: Originally posted by finbar But a win's a win, Tamerlin.

You are right Finbar, but I'am not going to the stadium to get bored and see a kind of parody of our favorite game.

A lost game would have been a real surprise and it could have happen yesterday. Our players have even been booed by the crowd (not by me because I never shout at the players as I consider it's too easy to shout at them while we are comfortably sat on our sit).

	23-09-2002 18:05									#132
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Cal, I notice your mob went down 11-18 against Canterbury. Did you see the game?

Yeah, I taped it and watched it with a friend who was visiting from Cleveland. He was very interested after I educated him on some of the rules of rugby. I also stressed to him the difference between L***** and Rugby Union so he would not make the mistake of trying to enjoy a game of L*****.

The result was a bit disappointing for me, especially considering how well Auckland were playing. It wasnt exactly a try-fest as only one was scored in the whole game (by Auckland). It was a good game to watch though, with plenty of action. It was definitely hard-fought, with Mehrten's kicking skills being the difference in the end. The weather was pretty bad, so no doubt that was a factor in Auckland's loss...heh, well I better not say any more about that aspect for fear of sounding like a Wallaby supporter after the first Tri-nations game against NZ.

	23-09-2002 18:14									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia The weather was pretty bad

Truly? I thought that weather during the Wallaby-ABs match was a one-off episode of sh*t NZ weather.

	23-09-2002 18:59									#134
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Truly? I thought that weather during the Wallaby-ABs match was a one-off episode of sh*t NZ weather.

I know its a tough concept for you aussies to grasp what with living on the world's largest desert island, but in New Zealand it actually rains more than once a year!! Thats why we get that green stuff we call "vegetation".

	23-09-2002 19:51									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I know its a tough concept for you aussies to grasp what with living on the world's largest desert island, but in New Zealand it actually rains more than once a year!! Thats why we get that green stuff we call "vegetation".

Tell me if I'am right or wrong Caligastia but is not New-Zealand called "Land of the long white cloud" or something like that. If I'am right, I think the weather must be rather rainy.

	23-09-2002 20:29									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Tell me if I'am right or wrong Caligastia but is not New-Zealand called "Land of the long white cloud" or something like that. If I'am right, I think the weather must be rather rainy.

Thats what the maori name for New Zealand means. Aotearoa - Land of the long white cloud. The weather is rainy in comparison to the desert that is Australia, but I doubt we get much more rain per year than France.

I guess if the maori had landed in England they would have called it "Land of the permanent grey sky.

	23-09-2002 22:09									#137
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Hello guys.

I'm back in work Tuesday after a nice break, but I'm walking back into a busy busy time.

Any chance of a summary of the last ten days?

I see Finbar being pleased with the Shed boys so far. They do look good.

A few flies in his honey - Tigers looked very Professional indeed Saturday and the season may not be over for us yet. Healey was dropped totally and a young lad played Fly half and did a great job. Austin will not be happy.

And Gloucester have player problems - they are owned by the guy who owns Arrows formula One team and the wages seem a bit under threat.

Keep flying the rugger flame guys!

	23-09-2002 22:32									#138
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Hi Havak, it's good to hear from you again.

quote: Originally posted by Havak Any chance of a summary of the last ten days?

Easy, there is just one important news : the Stade Toulousain has won its second home match against Colomiers 12-6 after a pitiful game.

	23-09-2002 22:55									#139
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Welcome back Havak. Who was the young fly half who replaced Healey?

	24-09-2002 04:18									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I'm back in work Tuesday after a nice break, but I'm walking back into a busy busy time.

Busy posting here? You owe us a few!

quote: Any chance of a summary of the last ten days?

*Havak blithely omits the second loss of the season from the timeframe*

quote: Healey was dropped totally

Lucky I'm not an "I told you so" kind of guy.

quote: And Gloucester have player problems - they are owned by the guy who owns Arrows formula One team and the wages seem a bit under threat.

Tom Walkinshaw. The walking definition of over-committed. Arrows have been a fiscal millstone for a long time.

quote: Keep flying the rugger flame guys!

We were! Singlehandedly!

	24-09-2002 04:25									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Welcome back Havak. Who was the young fly half who replaced Healey?

Just in case Havak disappears back into the ether for another millennium - Austin Healy's replacement was Sam Vesty.

	24-09-2002 04:28									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia but I doubt we get much more rain per year than France.

You got the rain, France got the culture.

quote: I guess if the maori had landed in England they would have called it "Land of the permanent grey sky.

And just imagine how good the English rugby team would be now.

	24-09-2002 13:20									#143
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Stade struggled against Colomier? What is happening to them?

I was so busy up to my break I forgot to mention I wouldn’t be around. No doubt I was labelled as sulking after the Sale game?

quote: Busy posting here? You owe us a few!

I’ll do what I can.

quote: *Havak blithely omits the second loss of the season from the timeframe*

Deano rested most of the players who trained with England that week and we paid the price. It’s early days. We still look a very capable outfit.

quote: Lucky I'm not an "I told you so" kind of guy.

:huh: You mean you are not?

And haven’t I been saying for a while Oz does not convince me at Fly?

Austin is a first choice player – just not at 10. Being dropped should spark him and make him a better player for a while – on the wing hopefully.

quote: Tom Walkinshaw. The walking definition of over-committed. Arrows have been a fiscal millstone for a long time.

That’s him. The scuttlebutt on the terraces last weekend was Gloucester may lose half their squad this season. Two players walked last week. It’s not good for the game of course – far better we beat them at their full “Foreign legion” strength.

Have you noticed Saracens spectacular fall from form? Seems the old problems haven’t been solved by Shelford yet.

quote: We were! Singlehandedly!

I had every confidence in you excellent gentlemen.
Meanwhile I was watching the beautiful game live and sorting out my flights for Bezier.

quote: Austin Healy's replacement was Sam Vesty.

And the “kid done good”. His passing to hand was sublime in comparison.

quote: And just imagine how good the English rugby team would be now.

Anglo-Saxon forwards and a Maori back line? Undisputed number one status for sure.

	24-09-2002 15:28									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Havak No doubt I was labelled as sulking after the Sale game?

The thought never crossed our minds.

quote: And haven’t I been saying for a while Oz does not convince me at Fly?

Why aren't you in the coaching box?

quote: That’s him. The scuttlebutt on the terraces last weekend was Gloucester may lose half their squad this season.

Hopefully Greedy Tom will have sold Arrows soon. Is it cashflow problems at Gloucester or worse?

quote: Have you noticed Saracens spectacular fall from form? Seems the old problems haven’t been solved by Shelford yet.

There have been some interesting early results. From what I can gauge from last season's standings, Saints seem to have shown some form. Leeds, too.

quote: And the “kid done good”. His passing to hand was sublime in comparison.

I checked out his stats. Unless the figures were out of date, he doesn't seem to have played many games.

	24-09-2002 18:05									#145
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quote: The thought never crossed our minds.

quote: Why aren't you in the coaching box?

Because you get blamed when it goes wrong - I don't like that.

quote: Is it cashflow problems at Gloucester or worse?

Worse from what I can gather. If he does not offload one soon he will have to ditch the other.

I'll shed no tears for Gloucester - they have made their own bed by splashing cash on the foreign talent - but the game needs 12 strong top teams and their self-destruction will blow that.

quote: Saints seem to have shown some form. Leeds, too.

Well Smith is a class coach. Everyone but the NZRFU knew that. Leeds are playing superbly - but punching above their weight. It will all crash down for them at some point, mark my prediction.

Vesty is not yet 21. He has been with the club just one year and only just moved from U-21 when goode defected to Saracens. From what I have seen, and it is only two games worth, I would play him at 10 over Austin.

I had heard Austin was dropped but there are now stories of a groin injury. I am not convinced of that, I think he was maybe dropped.

	24-09-2002 18:13									#146
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quote: Originally posted by finbar You got the rain, France got the culture.

We also got the best rugby players in the world.

	24-09-2002 20:06									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Stade struggled against Colomier? What is happening to them?

Struggled ? This is far from the truth, it was worse than this. A small Stade Toulousain against a small Colomiers, the two teams have proven themselves unable to make more than two passes without a handling error, almost every scrum went down and the Stade wasted two tries players throwing balls in one another's feet.

The Stade's coach, Guy Noves, has expressed his disappointment and asked the crowd to excuse the poor performance of its team. The players and the coach are ashamed and are looking forward to forget this game as soon as possible. Only Yann Delaigue (fly half) has sometimes played at its real level, unbelievable...

I really don't know what is going on but though the players are supposed to be good the Stade Toulousain is no more the team it was in the past. A few years ago, the Stade Toulousain was known, and feared, for its ambitious game and its innovations. Today this team seems unable to surprise its opponents and adapt itself to the other team which was one its greatest strength.

We will see saturday against Pau if those handling errors were only the outcome of a "bad day" or if they are the sign of a deeper problem.

	25-09-2002 04:35									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Because you get blamed when it goes wrong - I don't like that.

quote: Worse from what I can gather. If he does not offload one soon he will have to ditch the other.

He's got Arrows on the market. It was said recently that he was close to selling to an American outfit, but that was probably PR to placate the creditors. I don't know what it costs to run an English rugby club but it must be a tenth of what it costs to run even a 3rd-rate F1 team

quote: Well Smith is a class coach. Everyone but the NZRFU knew that. Leeds are playing superbly - but punching above their weight. It will all crash down for them at some point, mark my prediction.

So are Saints bona fide contenders?

quote: I had heard Austin was dropped but there are now stories of a groin injury. I am not convinced of that, I think he was maybe dropped.

Now he's saying the groin could keep him out of the ABs Test. Nothing like getting in early with an excuse for not being picked.

	25-09-2002 04:37									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia We also got the best rugby players in the world.

So the heavily-depleted Pacific Island nations keep telling me.

	25-09-2002 12:46									#150
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Tamerlin I would hope that Collazo helps to improve the scrum at least? It sure does not sound like the Stade I have seen right now. As you say five years ago they were one of the most respected teams in Europe.

Fingers crossed it was just a “bad day”.

You might also like to know Tournaire was yellow carded Saturday for cynically killing ball. Definitely going to fit in well at Tigers.

quote: but it must be a tenth of what it costs to run even a 3rd-rate F1 team

I would agree there, he probably only props them up with a few million a year (six engines?). The problem seems to be that Arrows could take him down totally. It seems inevitable he will reduce his holding in the RFC. Some local businessmen have said they will step in, and Gloucester will surely survive, but they may have to cope without just buying to whims. Gloucester of old was a power house production line of English forwards – now their latest academy graduates have all been back line and the scrum is full of foreigners – just one of the reasons I dislike the modern tractor boys.

quote: So are Saints bona fide contenders?

I think so yes. They have under-achieved for several seasons under Steele but under the new regime they are playing some very impressive rugby. Don’t get me wrong Leeds are playing some beautiful stuff but I think they lack the stamina to hold on for a whole season. I may be wrong, it’s been known.

quote: Nothing like getting in early with an excuse for not being picked

Convenient timing isn’t it? Not a mention of the ‘injury’ on the radio Saturday – it all came to light Sunday after Vesty’s solid performance.

quote: So the heavily-depleted Pacific Island nations keep telling me.

Nicely done. The Wallabies being whiter than white on that score?

Bristol away on Saturday as as your sig notes they are currently playing very badly. However away they are one of our bogie teams so who knows? I'm sure you also noted that the team we destroyed Saturday came within a last minute kick of beating the 'mighty' Gloucester the week before?

In essence it's all still to play for.