09-09-2002 19:40									#121
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 It did lead to the overthrow of monarchy and set the foundations for the modern nation state by which all european countries operate and on which basis they are formed. (yes even the UK although it doesn't like to hear it and prefers to talk about... westphalia (sp?) Apart from that the ideals of humanism were unprecedented in their wide scope.

I think you will find Cromwell laid the foundations for the British nation, as when James II returned he had his powers serverly limited by parliament.

We were a constitutiosnl monarchy before teh French revolution

	09-09-2002 19:41									#122
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Stop using that. While partly true, it is not completely so.

Nationalism is more than the mere statement of national sovereignty in internal affairs. It is a movement of thought among the general population which was not accomplished overnight.

	09-09-2002 19:41									#123
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger The french were not even culturally dominant in Europe, Im music they certainly wern't dominant. In painting tehy had many good artists but so did The Netherlands,Spain and Italy. In literature they are at least equalled by Britain. How then are they culturally dominant

Frenchs were even more dominant in the XVIIIth century than Americans are actually.

France was the CENTER of culture in Europe. All kings were trying to imitate the french court.
All philosophers of the time were frenchs (Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot...), and they were the main vectors of new humanists ideas.

French was the language for every man in high spheres of power. Most nobles were in fact much more fluent in french than in their own domestic language (there is a quote from this time where it is said that Prussian officers were talking german "only to their orderly and horse").

The "century of lights" had its name because of the new ideas and arts that were coming from the french royal court.

All this withered away slowly after the end of the first french empire, and with the rising of England to the first world place, and english took more and more importance (mainly after the WW2 when the power balance shifted brutally to the USA side).

quote: You get the prize for making the best post this thread. Hands Akka the prize

Are you aware that you are giving a prize to a left-winger French ?

	09-09-2002 19:45									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil Are you aware that you are giving a prize to a left-winger French ?

Nobody is perfect.

	09-09-2002 19:47									#125
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Nobody is perfect.

... but me

(sorry, this was just too tempting)

	09-09-2002 19:56									#126
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hehe talking about France look what I found:






France's air force aerobatic team, the Patrouille de France, on Saturday Sept. 7, 2000, flies over the statue of the warrior-king Alexander the Great in Thessaloniki bay, Greece. France is the honored country at the 67th annual Thessaloniki International Trade Fair and the team was in the northern port as part of the opening ceremonies. (AP Photo/Dimitri Messinis)

(a fact which nobody actually knows here )

	09-09-2002 20:56									#127
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Just don't get me started on Australians.

Ok, How are the sheep?

	09-09-2002 21:01									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak Hey... What is the diplomatic language nowadays ??? Oh, its french... Maybe our language is more subtle than english then...

So subtle that effectively nothing has been done dipllomatically for all the years since it's adoption. It's no mistake, the diplomats knew that if they chose french, no one else would understand them and thus they could sucessfully stretch out netgotiations for years, thus protecting their phoney baloney jobs.

quote: And why no one is answering at M. Brillat Savarin ?

Because no one knows who or what he, she or it is!

	09-09-2002 21:15									#129
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Honni soit qui mal y pense...

	09-09-2002 22:48									#130
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Just don't get me started on Australians.

Speaking of Australians, Paiktis has posted a very nice picture of Alexander's Horse.

	09-09-2002 22:52									#131
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He always has this "blaze" expression

	09-09-2002 22:54									#132
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Most of it is just kidding around. There isn't real hatred of France or French people here. A bit of contempt, maybe, but not hatred.

In a nutshell, we're both arrogant and like to do our own thing. And keep in mind that our mother country doesn't exactly have a history of warm and fuzzy relations with the Frogs.

-Arrian

	09-09-2002 22:56									#133
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Any culture that loves Jerry Lewis and eats frogs must be hated.

	09-09-2002 23:09									#134
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i concure about jerry luis and it is the legs of the frogs not the frogs themsleves.

	10-09-2002 00:26									#135
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It's simple.
The women don't shave.

And they are rude to American tourists that don't speak French. And since that ends up being 99% of Americans, we all just assume they hate us and deserve to be hated back.

RAH

	10-09-2002 00:31									#136
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quote: Originally posted by rah It's simple. The women don't shave.

Mmh...
Rah...
These ones were MEN...

(well, we are pink, are we not ?)

	10-09-2002 00:53									#137
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Hairy armpits and legs on a woman are kind of a turn off.

RAH
Another reason I couldn't see being gay.

	10-09-2002 01:27									#138
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I suspect it has to do with the arrogance combined with substantial disregard for non-French, even Quebecois, who are not "really" French. France making every manner of excuse for Saddam while having long-term oil-supply contracts with Iraq is the latest irritating example.

A couple of personal vignettes:

While backpacking in Europe in 1985 I needed to make travel arrangements to get back to England for the flight home. I went to the British Rail counter at Gare du Nord in Paris. Because I wanted to be certain of the track and departure time, I asked the attendant politely, in French, whether she spoke English. (Rule #1 for travel in a foreign country: At least try to speak the language. Rule #2: Be excessively polite.) She insisted she spoke no English, even though she was dressed in a BR uniform at a BR ticket counter.

While traveling in France in 1994, my wife and I stayed at a farmhouse in Normandy. We had a wonderful dinner, followed by 30 year old calvados. Our hosts asked what I did for a living, and I indicated that I was an economist. We then received a 20 minute lecture about how French agricultural tariffs were necessary to maintain the farms which were vital to French culture, and how Americans were Philistines for wanting to sell wheat (or other products) to the French. I have not bought any French wine since.

I know these are but a couple of examples, and there are cases of boorish Americans bellowing for their morning toast when perfectly wonderful croissants are available. These are, however, the bricks and mortar of which attitudes are made.

	10-09-2002 01:32									#139
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quote: Originally posted by rah Hairy armpits and legs on a woman are kind of a turn off. RAH Another reason I couldn't see being gay.

I wouldn't want a woman with hairy armpits or legs either... eew.

	10-09-2002 02:09									#140
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Its not even funny to see how stubborn french and americans are stubborn...

M de Brillat-Savarin is a french philosopher who wrote a not famous essay : "La Physiologie du Gout", which is about "gourmandise". He also invented a cheese. He was a pleasant man.

	10-09-2002 02:23									#141
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Certainly the French were not anti-American when they gave us the Statue of Liberty. Nor were they anti-American during WWII. Nor was America anti-French during that war.

All of this antipathy, I believe, is related to post WWII politics, not culture, otherwise the phenomenon would have been there prior to the war.

	10-09-2002 02:32									#142
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quote: All of this antipathy, I believe, is related to post WWII politics, not culture, otherwise the phenomenon would have been there prior to the war.

It WAS here prior to the war.

Having rivality and some scorn over another country/culture does not mean you can't see an ally where he is.

	10-09-2002 05:06									#143
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I American-French Conflict must have been created by the French Present the famous Statue of Liberty..
by sending this Monument the French indirectly said 'hey look We can create Great Things' (implying the US cant.

but thats just my 2Hours after Midnight impression.

	10-09-2002 11:34									#144
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quote: 'hey look We can create Great Things'

That's not quite accurate. French can create Big things. Paris is Big. The Americans also have learned to create Big things. Even Bigger ones. If you want to see Great things, go to Italy. Venice is Great. The Dutch and Germans also created Great things. Even the English. (The Romans created only Big things).

Sorry, couldn't resist

	10-09-2002 11:41									#145
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I KNEW that, somehow, all that was related to a size complex.

	10-09-2002 13:22									#146
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but I've been on vacation and haven't read the entire thread, so....

It's because, of the 4 major wars the US has been in this century, the blame for all of them can be laid at the feet of the French for

a. Not defending their homeland properly in WW1 and WW2.

b. Not being able to properly decolonize, leaving the US holding the bag (Korea, Vietnam).

The freakin' pansies can't fight worth a damn and their most famous ruler wore wigs and stockings. How can you not scorn them?

	10-09-2002 13:39									#147
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT but I've been on vacation and haven't read the entire thread, so.... It's because, of the 4 major wars the US has been in this century, the blame for all of them can be laid at the feet of the French for a. Not defending their homeland properly in WW1 and WW2. b. Not being able to properly decolonize, leaving the US holding the bag (Korea, Vietnam). The freakin' pansies can't fight worth a damn and their most famous ruler wore wigs and stockings. How can you not scorn them?

I don't normally defend the french but in WW1 at Verdun the French lost more casualties in a few months than the US did in WW1 and WW2 combined. Have a go at them for later on but not WW1

	10-09-2002 13:40									#148
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But isn't Verdun on French soil?

	10-09-2002 13:41									#149
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT But isn't Verdun on French soil?

your point being

	10-09-2002 13:50									#150
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Had they defended properly, then they wouldn't have been fighting at Verdun.