11-11-2004 07:35									#1531
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quote: If LF replays he plays fast and omits something...

I wanted to say he omits something like checking supply and demand.

I would have another work for SparrowHawk: to load the minoan save and to do everything possible - press all hot keys, invoke all menus ... except F11.

	11-11-2004 10:45									#1532
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I would have another work for SparrowHawk: to load the minoan save and to do everything possible - press all hot keys, invoke all menus ... except F11.

Done, and I opened and checked everything I could, without actually changing anything permanents (though I did adjust without making changes......Tax Rate move up and down but left in same position as started for instance).

If there is a change I will post the detailed list of what I opened, as I kept track, but if it doesn't make a difference I won't bother posting it as it will be useless.

Someone please let me know if anything has changed.

* Sparrowhawk

	11-11-2004 14:07									#1533
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clean

I guess La Fayette indeed presses F11 in his sleep

	11-11-2004 16:08									#1534
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Kull
How do you happen to know that I have been very good friends with some of my secretaries?
Unfortunately, I am 66 now, and retired last year

	12-11-2004 00:18									#1535
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Babylon is OK in the SparrowHawk's save.

	12-11-2004 04:44									#1536
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Rumors abound that an earthquake in Knossos has caused disturbances in lands far away. Others say that the powerful sneeze of the little-known Minoan god La Fayette was the cause. Who is to know?

I had 2 lucky partial moves, one that required a save/reload to duplicate. One unlucky partial move was duplicated with a "space" once the unit reached the terrain change. Ctrl-N dutifully performed at end of turn.

Attachment: hittites_b2880a.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	15-11-2004 02:34									#1537
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Situation between Assyria and Babylon is not clear now.
First Assyrian leader announced that he doesn't accept Babylonian borders (except land in perimeter of Bab cities) and that Assyrian units passed over the disputable border. Babylon protested, because its claim is backed up by old agreements between Assyria and Babylon. A debate followed but ended up in freezing trade between both nations (since Babylon conditioned trade by guaranteening a large non-weapon area between existing Babylonian and Assyrian cities). Talks about borders, neutral areas and cease fire (we are formally in war after the incident of a mass throw of spears) are not finished yet.

Attachment: bab_b2880.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	15-11-2004 02:46									#1538
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am new to PBEM's and am having some trouble sorting out the diplomacy and ethics -

1) My foreign minister screen tells me I am at peace with some kingdoms, but only have contact with others. Does this "peace" actually mean anything?

2) Suppose player A and B make a deal, and B breaks it to gain advantage. Is this to be expected? That is, does it have implications outside the game (it means B was dishonest), or not (it just means B was more clever)? Or does everybody decide this for themselves?

I asked Sparrowhawk - is this more of a party or a competition (or both)?

(Edit) BTW - I was writing this when ST posted. My questiion has nothing to do with either of those fine kingdoms. It is purely hypothetical (for now).

	15-11-2004 03:14									#1539
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I decide for myself what to think of it

quote: I asked Sparrowhawk - is this more of a party or a competition (or both)?

What do you mean by this?
The game is just a game, I play to have fun.
I have the best fun if I win though, so the game certainly is also a competition to me.

	15-11-2004 03:24									#1540
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I think the game is of a real life. You are a leader of an empire. That's all. It is supposed you want it prospers... but you may act in any way.

1) The real relationships are essential. The info of foreign minister may indicate something, but it may also indicate players forgot to establish peace.

2) Read a difference between "barters" and "agreements" in house rules.
Any agreement may be broken. You can look at such a breach any way you want: something bad or something clever...
For example X breaks an agreement with Y then Y can complain publicly so that credibility of X is decreased, but X can say it is X who broke an agreement... You can lie any way.

	15-11-2004 03:31									#1541
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In any game my order of importance is
1. to have a fun of playing
2. to win (in a 7-player game I may have also some lower goal than to be 1st)

Therefore I don't cheat very much , only if I need 3 Wows in one turn
(an old history, Peaster )

To be clear: lying in diplomacy is allowed, but cheating is not (see house rules). Of course it is not supposed anybody would cheat, because primarily he would lost his own entertainment of a game.

	15-11-2004 04:56									#1542
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Minos salutes the new Assyrian leader (though none of his "sissie" skirmishers have met any Assyrian citizen yet).
It is highly advisable for Assyria to stay at peace with Babylon (since Babylon is the only civ able to build 3 wonders in one turn ).

	15-11-2004 06:00									#1543
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Thanks, that helps. So, the foreign minister screen is pretty meaningless and lying is part of the game (though people could still react badly to it).

@germanos - by "is this more of a party or a competition (or both)?" I was wondering whether we are mainly trying to have fun (peacefully), or trying to win. I was not trying to make a point or to be sarcastic. Skimming over the previous 50 pages, it was just hard to tell. Kull apparently gave away tech for free, and the only "war" I noticed involved just one city, and it was later settled in court.

	15-11-2004 16:50									#1544
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Minos salutes the new Assyrian leader (though none of his "sissie" skirmishers have met any Assyrian citizen yet). It is highly advisable for Assyria to stay at peace with Babylon (since Babylon is the only civ able to build 3 wonders in one turn ).

Well, seeing that Babylon has been unable to garrison half of his cities for the last two centuries, I'm inclined to have some reservations towards his claims

	15-11-2004 20:56									#1545
	assyrian turn Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Assyria enjoyed a very quiet decade.

The Ammonite capitol has been razed to the ground and large column of Ammonites and Moabites have taken to the hills overlooking the valley. Grounds are being cleared to accommodate new housing and a new palace for the Ammonite king. Assyrian scouts have boarded sails and left Canaanite shores.

In the no-mans-land south of the Assyrian border all is quiet.

Ish-Mandaroun is becoming a busy port and local taverns are full of merchants. Shipwrights are making good money and a shipbuilding frenzy has broken out now that traders bound for Babylon are expected to travel north instead.
The news of the closure of the Babylonian markets for Assyrian goods has led to a few brawls, as prices for various goods are expected to plummet and prices for transportation are rising.

In Ekallatte a magnificent temple was build for Uraš, benefactor of commerce. It’s drawing large crowds, but very few look happy.

A 10% solidarity tax has been introduced to cover for the expenses made to relocate the Ammonite capital.

Attachment: assyria_b2880.net
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	16-11-2004 01:11									#1546
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Peaster, we had no war because there was nothing to fight for. Land is quite large . Also this is not a duel, so with 7-civs in game 5 civs will laugh if other 2 fights.

I think you can decide you'll be machiavellian or always straightforward or always bad... anything you want.
Anyway it is clear a good reputation is worthwhile (however you keep it because of beeing straightforward or because of lying skilfully).

	16-11-2004 01:13									#1547
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quote: Originally posted by germanos Well, seeing that Babylon has been unable to garrison half of his cities for the last two centuries, I'm inclined to have some reservations towards his claims

Babylonian troops are hidden in forests around Nineveh and will make your capital straight if you dare to untune SlowThinker the Immortal.
(I must explain that Babylon has an immortal leader in contrast to Assyria)

	17-11-2004 06:08									#1548
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Perseat: Sometimes we set the diplomatic AI attitude to "enthusiastic" so that if you invoke an AI response when approaching a foreign unit it won't be "This means WAR!!"

	17-11-2004 08:23									#1549
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Makes sense. I met a Greek unit during my turn and got the "do you want to talk?" message. Unlike SP, it went away after a few seconds as if I had said "yes". Fortunately, nothing happened. But I guess it is better to quickly say "no" in that situation.

	17-11-2004 10:01									#1550
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow Perseat

I would think he might want to go to war with the Hittites just for the way you mangled his name

* Sparrowhawk

	17-11-2004 10:39									#1551
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Sparrowhawk - I chose that name for the new Persian Steward, who recently contacted King Straybow about Hittite-Persian diplomatic relations.

Some more trivia about names - The Persian King is played by Stephan Hartel (SH). The Persian Steward is played by me, Steven H. The Persian Control-N person is Sparrow Hawk. Our nearest neighbor is Slowt Hinker. Ok, maybe that's going too far.

But I can't stop.... "Kull" is a fictional heroic character (like Conan) created by Robert E Howard, who was born in Peaster, Texas.

	17-11-2004 11:38									#1552
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And Kull, though born elsewhere, liveth now in the state of Texas - albeit not in Peaster. And (worry not, Minos) he abideth upon a street called Crete!

Speaking of Minos - Pharoah notes the appearance of thy troops at the border of Egypt's heartlands and serves notice that military units may pass no further to the West. Sinai, Canaan and the vast eastern deserts are free for thy exploration however. One last note, thy troops block the Great Eastern Road. While travel along this thoroughfare is not prohibited, blocking the passage of Pharoah's units is frowned upon - please exit at your earliest convenience.

Attachment: egypt_b2880.net
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	18-11-2004 04:20									#1553
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He spelled it that way in an email to me. I thought it was a neat anagram.

	18-11-2004 10:40									#1554
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The groggy new Persian steward "Perseat" decrees that henceforth, Persian cities are entitled to build only one wall each. The town of Kyroushata (consisting entirely of two lively octogenarians) has been patrioticly trying conceive a full tribe of farmers. The couple has been persuaded to delay this effort a few decades in its own best interest.

Perseat asks the Greeks to respect King Achaemenes' no-scouting policy, and to contact the Persians if they desire diplomatic relations.

Otherwise, Persia enjoyed a quiet period, much like the Assyrians. Not even a city was razed (what was that all about, Germanos?).

Attachment: pe_b2880.net
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	19-11-2004 05:13									#1555
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quote: Originally posted by Peaster Otherwise, Persia enjoyed a quiet period, much like the Assyrians. Not even a city was razed (what was that all about, Germanos?).

I had the option of having the citizens of Ammon to pack their bags and leave (disbanding the city), or have the Egyptians packing the bags for them.
I choose the first

	20-11-2004 18:52									#1556
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edit: nm

Last edited by germanos on 20-11-2004 at 19:06

	21-11-2004 00:58									#1557
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Clock is ticking on kengel and the Greeks?

	21-11-2004 02:48									#1558
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yessir!

	21-11-2004 17:38									#1559
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oops... you guys just got me on my long weekend.
Sorry to say, that I will not be able to play until monday evening; if SParrowhawk reads this, he is of course allowed to Ctrl-N since I don't like to slow down this game which is now running again

	21-11-2004 17:43									#1560
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Personally, I think that any such delays are very permissable .

Especially if you would say you WILL play monday evening