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Peaster is offline Peaster
Prince
Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:22
  Old Post 01-11-2004 09:03 Visit Peaster's homepage!
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All is well. I don't expect to find a great plan for Persia right away, but I think I can post a save within 1-2 days.

May our foreign visitors be enlightened pilgrims who will leave tithes at all our holiest places.

Peaster is offline Peaster
Prince
Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:22
  Old Post 02-11-2004 09:23 Visit Peaster's homepage!
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The Persians are back!

We will wait a few turns before making any new treaties (hoping for the Return of the King). We apologize deeply if we have unknowingly violated any old ones. During this period, we will honor the old treaties that our good neighbors inform us of.

Best wishes to the Greeks. We made contact, but didn't know the protocol, and didn't deal with the AI.

Attachment: ac_b2890.net
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kengel is offline kengel
Prince
Germany
Aug 1999
time: 06:22
  Old Post 03-11-2004 04:56
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Welcome Peaster

After a warm welcome from the Persians, our greek expedition moves on to search the border of the world plate, to meet their gods.
Thanks for that refreshing drink you call "mocca"

Attachment: pbem_bc_2890_to_minoan.net
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kengel is offline kengel
Prince
Germany
Aug 1999
time: 06:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 03:13
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Slowthinker asked me in a PM about my opinion if he could get back his lost shields from some turns ago-
Well, I don't care about this; if this is due to some strange civ2 program interference, he should get his shields back

La Fayette is offline La Fayette
King
albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 14:19
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A Minoan skirmisher wandering along the coast of the Sinai, east of Suez canal ( ), met an Egyptian charioteer (stationed (63,81)), who declared war at first sight.
It is well known that Minoan skirmishers are sissies: the skirmisher went away at once...
but Minos wishes to stress that he is happy to have made contact with the glorious Egyptian civilization and wishes to have a peaceful relationship with Pharaoh and also nervous Pharaoh's charioteers.

Attachment: mi_b2890.net
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SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 16:09 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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kengel, I am sure I didn't ask you I can only guess who was that person.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowThinker
kengel, I am sure I didn't ask you I can only guess who was that person.





To Minoans: I think you should investigate the training program of your soldiers, they appear to piss off everybody they meet. Perhaps they should stop showing off their 'armaments' upon first sight .

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 18:17 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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Re: kengel—SlowThinker? Straybow? What's the difference?

La Fayette is offline La Fayette
King
albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by germanos

To Minoans: I think you should investigate the training program of your soldiers


I can't

They have no training program at all

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 04-11-2004 23:26
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I received a PM from Peastor on an issue of rules/etiquette and think it might be beneficial if Slowthinker (or anyone else for that matter) reposted the Game Rules (I would do it, but 30 pages (@50 Posts per page)!!! )

Thanks,
* Sparrowhawk

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 00:51
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http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...081#post2298081


I think this post carries most, if not all, rules.
I think some still need some votes

No panic though: Peaster will have to abide by these rules in any case

There is maybe some more elsewhere in the thread, but nothing groundbraking.


IMPORTANT: Don't use F11/demographics !!!!
(or if you need the stats:
save...
look...
reload.)

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 00:54
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In addition, I've linked to the same post in post #4 on page 1.

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 05:38 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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warning: there is a newer ruleset than germanos'link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...505#post2815505

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 05:39 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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Since kengel agrees with restoration at ... say ... 75% and moreover he suggests to restore Babylonian shields in place of Hittites : I need to know if germanos is satisfied and agrees with restoration.

I yes then I would ask Straybow to contact me before posting his save.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowThinker
Since kengel agrees with restoration at ... say ... 75% and moreover he suggests to restore Babylonian shields in place of Hittites : I need to know if germanos is satisfied and agrees with restoration.

I yes then I would ask Straybow to contact me before posting his save.


I'm certainly not satisfied, but as I told earlier, I will not veto.
I will tell you what I don't like though:
- The issue has been risen to perhaps change production now to a caravan instead of a wonder. Strange. See also Slowthinkers post on that.
- In Straybow's initial post, he said that the unit (build by mistake) had hardly moved, yet in the meantime it appears the unit has been keeping moving. (from reading consequetive posts)
- It appears that currently the city in question is building neither a caravan nor a wonder.

I do want to make clear that the reason why I have not been in favor of the restoration lies in the fact that the situation has arisen by a combination of a game-glitch AND the failure of Straybow to deal with it competently.
The reason I'm lenient lies in the fact that Straybow's own glitch has been caused by the long intervals in between turns.
I have warned Straybow that he would have to restore production in a PM, and I told him how to do it by using either LazyCiv3 or CivDip2.
At last: I'm a bit troubled that it takes such a long time before the issue can be solved. IIRC we are allready two turns further...


Considering ST's post: what is this 75% thing you are talking about?
And for the record: I completely oppose any Babylonian shield restoration.

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 05-11-2004 22:21 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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quote:
In Straybow's initial post, he said that the unit (build by mistake) had hardly moved, yet in the meantime it appears the unit has been keeping moving. (from reading consequetive posts)

I didn't notice that in Straybow's posts... Anyway I am against a restoration if it travels now.

quote:
The issue has been risen to perhaps change production now to a caravan instead of a wonder. Strange. See also Slowthinkers post on that.

I see no problem with that. For all I care: after shields will be restored to wonder Straybow can change production to anything he wants.

quote:
At last: I'm a bit troubled that it takes such a long time before the issue can be solved. IIRC we are allready two turns further...

I think it is not Straybow's fault so much ... I had no time last turn.
And Straybow loses shields every turn of delay (on the assumption that he will switch to a caravan).

quote:
Considering ST's post: what is this 75% thing you are talking about?

There was some "if" in the kengel's formulation. You required that evrybody posts his words about the issue and so you should evaluate if these words are sufficient for you.
My position is that nobody must disagree. I think kengel didn't post a disapproval.

My stance: I agree if unit doesn't travel and if germanos says that he doesn't veto (or did you do it already? I am not sure if you are waiting for some elucidations or not).

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 05:40 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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The unit in question is an Early Chariot, so it moved quickly on my roads 2 turns before I noticed the error. Then it looked like the fix wasn't going to be allowed, and I moved it again. He has not encountered another unit or uncovered any black squares. As it looked like the change may be allowed, I did not move it last turn.

However, to allay any fears of undue information (the absence of foreign units on the river), my Caravan from Ancyra has followed closely behind, to the hills towards Tarsus.



As I explained, when I returned I was debating a switch from WoW to Caravan. Recall that we had to re-play 2940, but according to rules I couldn't change my mind about a major strategic change like that.

By the time I played 2930 in my befuddlement I had set Iconion to Farmer after the spurious unit was produced, completely forgetting earlier strategies. After 3 turns of maybe/no/maybe it is too far gone to take all the shields of a fix even if I were to change to Caravan. I would need one fix for WoW switched to Caravan and then another fix for 2 or 3 turns production on the Farmer to follow. So I proposed waiting until the Farmer is done.

The end result is I get a Caravan 6+ turns later than I would have had it (4+ turns after a fix was first proposed), a Farmer 1-2 turns before I would have had it (I'll hit "space" to freeze it two turns, if that is an issue), and a fearsome donkey-chariot rode through my heartland.


PS: I thought ST and kengel were joking about an international exchange rate.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 18:03
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Complicated business.

Do what you all seem fair, I accept any solution.
That is the last I say on the subject.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 18:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowThinker
warning: there is a newer ruleset than germanos'link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...505#post2815505



Thanks.
Updated on page 1 as well.

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 20:53 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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Straybow, this is my view:
The fact you continued to move the chariot under a maybe/no/maybe situation signifies you reconciled yourself that shields won't be restored. I would expect you stop movement of chariot immediately if you want to keep the question of restoration possible.
My position turned to not to accomplish the restoration.

I don't want to veto immediately, so I am waiting for opinions of others.

Kull is offline Kull

King
El Paso, TX USA
Mar 1999
time: 22:22
Exclamation  Old Post 06-11-2004 22:53 Visit Kull<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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At this point you almost need a Phd in "shieldology" to figure out what's going on. I'd say it's worth giving him the shields just so we don't have to hear anything further on this topic!

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 23:07 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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PhD? No, not even a law degree The amount works out evenly, only the order of appearance is switched.

quote:
The fact you continued to move the chariot under a maybe/no/maybe situation signifies you reconciled yourself that shields won't be restored.

Well, I kinda gave up at the first roadblock because it seemed likely to mire in controversy (which it has). Almost sorry I raised the question... except that I do wish I could fix it.

* Straybow mumbles: I've worn Kull down! One more turn of whining should do it...

Me? No, I didn't say anything...

La Fayette is offline La Fayette
King
albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 06-11-2004 23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kull
I'd say it's worth giving him the shields just so we don't have to hear anything further on this topic!

Exactly my opinion.
(and I know that Stray is honest enough to find a method for not getting any undue benefit)

Stefan Härtel is offline Stefan Härtel
King
Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:22
  Old Post 07-11-2004 16:40
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Guys, thought I'd let you know that I'm still very tied up in things here. I hope to be back in January, but I can't say. Rock on.

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 07-11-2004 23:00 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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Stefan,
I am not sure if Peaster is willing to play with full interest if he doesn't know if and when he will be replaced.
IMHO Stefan's position should be preserved until some fixed date, and this date shouldn't be too long.
Stefan, realize without Peaster or another substitute your civ would be extremely behind in 2005.

But Peaster's view is very important now.

Peaster, e-mail to you was bounced...

SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 07-11-2004 23:02 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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Concerning Straybow's shields:
You persuaded me. I don't want to be a bad guy here. (Frankly said I was also little bit lazy because not so large amount of shields will be restored due to production change.)
I contacted Straybow by e-mail and we are arranging details. If you want to know them I am prepared to post them here

Peaster is offline Peaster
Prince
Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:22
  Old Post 08-11-2004 04:22 Visit Peaster's homepage!
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Slowthinker,

I got your Nov 5 emails and identical PMs, but I haven't decided how to respond yet. You think too fast for me.

It is true that I am reluctant to plunge 100% into this complex scenario if I am only going to play 4-5 turns. But Stefan has played many more turns than that, so let's give him a reasonable grace period.

BTW - The Persian Steward, awakening after a wild night in Ectabana, has just been informed of a Persian no-scouting policy. This applies to all pilgrims, peddlers and horse people, including the Wandering Greek Cowboys - Yorgos and Penos.

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:22
  Old Post 08-11-2004 09:58 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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A few hrs over the deadline

Attachment: hittites_b2880.net
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SlowThinker is offline SlowThinker
King
homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:39 Visit SlowThinker's homepage!
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During the Minoan turn AI replaced my workers...
Because I verified now I am well equiped for hexediting I could do the fix by myself... if you agree.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:22
  Old Post 08-11-2004 22:58
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better replay, I'm screwed too.

 
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