07-03-2005 05:26									#1771
	bab 2830 Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Babylonian strategy
After Assyria started to behave very suspicously towards Babylon our advisors warned that Babylon cannot resist in a long-lasting type of warfare against the economical power of Assyria. Therefore Babylonian army was prepared for a blitzkrieg.
This is not because we would be a warlike nation. Aim of the blitzkrieg is to cause large losses to Assyria quickly (including capturing as many cities as posible). We hope the supposed losses could help our Assyrian brother to stop his truculence. In other words we will be prepared for peace talks.

Operation anti-locusts
Disinfestation of the northern part of the front was finished completely. Babylonian caravanieri (traders that were forced to take weapons under the circumstances; they hate they cannot make money and are narked seriously) destroyed one group of regular Assyrian army equiped with Chariot II and one group of slayers responsible for death of our customs officers. The second group of slayers was destroyed by our new 'morass horsemen' squad, so far dirty of a mud. No Assyrian soldier survived in the area between Larsa and Kurigalzu.
In the southern part we will advance cautiously, since a large new fort was detected between Kish and Kurigalzu.

International loan service
We agree with our Assyrian brother it is an incredible impudence of the Minoan leader to meddle into our personal skirmish. So we agree the Minoan caravan must be destroyed (200g will hardly be be payed since ... ehm ... the total sum of Minoan and Hittite gold is ... ehm ... not very high).
(We also remind the Hittite and Persian leaders had similar allusions, although it looks they want to realize loans somewhere in the future only. Maybe they deserve some lesson too?)
From other point of view we think Minos shouldn't let Assyria to command what Minos must or must not do. Assassination of innocent traders and 200 schoolboys (bad schoolboys but still schoolboys) on their periodic trip to Greek museums must be punished definitely. Also we are hoping Greeks won't sit back doing nothing when schoolboys are murdered in Greek lands. And the Hittites are allied with Minoans, so we suppose they know what is their obligation.
That's all for now.

Attachment: bab_b2830.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	07-03-2005 19:24									#1772
	a message to the Assyrian leader Support Apolyton

A long while ago: sneak attack against the Hittites.
A short while ago: sneak attack against Babylon.
Now comes blackmail, against me:
At least there is no problem about who started what.

I am ready to discuss with Assyria, just like with anyone else, even if it's hard to feel friendly right now.
I am certainly not ready to say "yes" to blackmailing.

Don't expect to receive 200g without further discussion.
And don't forget to think about the consequences if you destroy my caravan, currently travelling peacefully right in the middle of my ally's territory.

	07-03-2005 22:02									#1773
	Re: bab 2830 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Operation anti-locusts Babylonian caravanieri (traders that were forced to take weapons under the circumstances; they hate they cannot make money and are narked seriously) destroyed one group of regular Assyrian army equiped with Chariot II and one group of slayers responsible for death of our customs officers.

The Persians are wondering whether a small country can make a difference in the world. But mainly we are wondering what "narked seriously" means.

	08-03-2005 22:12									#1774
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This is in my dictionary:

nark
cause annoyance in
annoy:1, bother:3, devil:5, get at:2, get to:2, gravel:4, irritate:2, mortify:2, nark:3, nettle:3

BTW, PM tracking system says Straybow is out one week, did anybody hear about him?

	09-03-2005 20:59									#1775
	Suffering from ads?

Thanks, ST. I didn't bother to look it up, assuming it was a mistake (apologies). But it is not in my dictionary, so I don't feel too bad.

BTW - what has happened to the 72-hour rule ? I am getting a little narked about that. And what about finding a sub for Germanos - didn't he say something about being away a while ?

	09-03-2005 21:45									#1776
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Peaster a sub for Germanos - didn't he say something about being away a while ?

I don't think Germanos would enjoy leaving the game right now, before having decided what he's going to do with my "200g" caravan

	11-03-2005 19:15									#1777
	Increase Your PM Length

I hope he has not left the game, but it has been five days since ST posted. I think we have to enforce the 72 hour rule to keep this game alive. Sparrowhawk?

	11-03-2005 22:23									#1778
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I agree with Peaster that it is bad the 72 rule is often ignored ...
but...
IMHO we cannot skip a turn of a civ that is in war - it would spoil the game completely ... imagine you play chess and suddenly your opponent can make two turns in a row...
Let us wait for germanos' return and explanation for this once...

Concerning germanos absence - IIRC germanos told he would search a sub and in a worst case he would give very concrete orders to SparrowHawk?
But I can't imagine how can SparrowHawk be such a sub under war condition, because it is impossible to predict anything...
SparrowHawk can be hardly a regular sub (a sub that makes his own decisions) because he knows most civs ...

	11-03-2005 23:23									#1779
	Re: Sub needed Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by germanos On a more pleasurable note: I'm going to be away for a lengthy period (5-7 weeks) this spring (april and may). Since activity on this forum has almost come to an halt, I think it's wise to start looking for subs now .

ST - Skipping G's turn will certainly spoil some of the fun of the game, especially for you and him. But waiting a month between moves is no fun either. G has not asked for more time, or DL'd your save. IIRC he took well over 72 hours last time.

Let's move on - either with Control-N, or getting a sub IF we can find one very fast. I note that Zedd has offered, in a separate thread. I would not object to asking Sparrowhawk either.

The Persian position has suffered many Control-N's, so I know it is not pretty, but I am sure Assyria can survive. I think the game might beneift in the long run.

	12-03-2005 02:19									#1780
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'll post tomorrow, it will be the last save I post.

My departure for Syria is approaching fast, and as I've stated earlier my departure to Syria will also be my departure from the game.

Sorry for the delay: I've lost the incentive to play fast.

	12-03-2005 03:06									#1781
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by germanos it will be the last save I post. I've lost the incentive to play fast.

Please, take your time !
IMO it's a pity you leave the game right now.

Hope to see you back later on

	12-03-2005 03:10									#1782
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by germanos I'll post tomorrow, it will be the last save I post. My departure for Syria is approaching fast, and as I've stated earlier my departure to Syria will also be my departure from the game.

Did you prepare any sub that will want to follow your aggresive way of playing?

	12-03-2005 03:35									#1783
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

@ La Fayette:
no, I will not be back. I quitted once before (a little more then a year ago) but was persuaded to stay. I'm not planning on making this a habit
My descision is final.

@ SlowThinker:
no, I did not arrange for a sub, nor am I planning on doing so. I wouldn't know where to look. The PBEM forum here is practically dead, and I have no contact with your other forum. (what is called? CDG?). I had arranged a sub for my temporary abscence, but that was before it became permanent.

I have put great effort in recreating my moves in between your previous save and the reconstructed one last turn. The war was not started because I would leave. It was allready underway.

I'm not planning to leave any instructions for Sparrowhawk, save for CTRL-N when there is no Assyrian player.

	12-03-2005 04:08									#1784
	Suffering from ads?

germanos,
but I don't understand why did you start the war as a temporary player? And why didn't you answer when I asked you about it first time?
OK, you prepared Assyria for the war during some time, and so it was natural to use the prepared forces, but still the new player could decide himself if and when and how to launch an attack.
It would be much easier to find a new player if we announced we need a player for the strongest civ of the game than if we announce Assyria is in war with 1 (or 2 or 3) civs and we prefer the new player follows the original course.

This is a reason why I think it will be better if the new Assyrian player plays this turn.

Peaster,
are you in contact wih Zedd? Will he want to play under current situation?

germanos,
maybe you could prepare some written info for the new player?

	12-03-2005 08:16									#1785
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would be happy to follow Germanos, I know a little about this SCEN from before and would like to see it continue. I am restricted from upload on weekends due to lack of net at home, but Mon-Fri I will be happy to lend a hand.

	12-03-2005 10:54									#1786
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker germanos, but I don't understand why did you start the war as a temporary player? And why didn't you answer when I asked you about it first time?

Because I'm not a temporary player. I find it quite an insult you call me that after playing the full two and a half years of this game.

	12-03-2005 16:13									#1787
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

germanos,
I am sorry, I didn't want to insult you. The word 'temporary' was meant from point of view that looks in the future and neglects the past.
I really don't know what is the correct english word, maybe 'transitory'?
I think that as a player who played all the game since its start you have full right to stop anytime and do anything. But if you take into consideration a good course of the game you could weigh what is more reasonable and what is less.
So decide yourself if you want to make next turn or let it for Zedd.

Zedd,
you are our redeemer. In past Hittite and Persian civ were Ctrl-N ed many turns because of lack of a player and I couldn't imagine that with Assyria.
On the first page there is a download of the PBEM version and a link to our current house rules.

	12-03-2005 16:41									#1788
	Put an end to popups!

Zedd - a good trick is to download the thread as 'show printable version' and to save it. Then you can read a complete discussion easily, to use the 'find' order ...

Aargh - I am slowthinker - Zedd, you were the Hittite leader ... but time passed ... so I hope this is not a problem.

	12-03-2005 16:56									#1789
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Another problem on the horizon: Straybow is offline last 11 days.

Since germanos is leaving I think we should open the cases of
1) looking at civs of allies
2) playing a civ of an ally (in case of a necessity only)

Need of 2) : it is clear
Need of 1) : imagine Assyria attacks boh Hittites and Minoans, it is Minoan turn and Straybow is out. LF need to know what happened in Hittiteland.
(could anybody tell me correct words?
Americans-America-American
Hittites-?-Hittite
Minoans-?-Minoan)

From my point of view there is only one problem: you can't be a double agent - i.e. to pretend you are allied and prepare a sneak attack or similar bad things.

	12-03-2005 18:27									#1790
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker germanos, I am sorry, I didn't want to insult you. The word 'temporary' was meant from point of view that looks in the future and neglects the past. I really don't know what is the correct english word, maybe 'transitory'?

I had three options:
1) quit immediately when my turn is due
2) don't attack you when I had allready done so before the turn needed a replay (and thus gaining a lot of extra info on Babylonian positions), and quit immediately after that.
3) done what I did.

I don't see why you have such a problem with me posting a save that would have been posted as well if I had not decided to leave. It was completed 75% allready.
So I don't think 'transitory'would fit the description either. You have a regular save from a player that decides to leave in two months.

I'll post the next save, and you guys can figure out yourselfs what to do with it.

	12-03-2005 19:14									#1791
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Kudos to Germanos for staying with the game this long and taking Assyria to #1 (IMO). You will be missed.

You told me it is very unlikely that a departing player would leave instructions, but even a few sentences would probably be very helpful to Zedd.

I am fairly neutral about the allies issue, but would prefer to see Sparrowhawk do the honors, if he agrees. I wonder if we could find other volunteers to help out occasionally? I don't see the problem about Straybow though .... his turn is probably not up for another week or two, right?


Mr English Language Person speaks:

1) I have two friends who are English professors; neither has heard of "nark". However, everyone likes the word. To me, "seriously narked" sounds better than "narked seriously".

2) Americans America American
Hittiites Hattas Hittite
Minoans Minos (or "Crete") Minoan

Not sure about "Hattas" - just saw it somewhere in this thread. My pocket history of the world refers to their land as "what is now Anatolia in Turkey" or as simply "the Hittite Empire".

According to Burns, they "all had enormous hooked noses, receding foreheads, and slanting eyes" and are considered to be related to the Greeks. The secret of their language "was unlocked during WWI by the Czech scholar Bedrich Hrozny". Their civ resembles the Old Babylonian more than any other.

	13-03-2005 00:11									#1792
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by germanos 2) don't attack you when I had allready done so before the turn needed a replay (and thus gaining a lot of extra info on Babylonian positions), and quit immediately after that.

OK, I didn't perceive you decided to leave AFTER you started the war.
Now I can blame you only that you didn't answer my question if the attack signifies you decided to stay in the game. But in fact I cannot complain: since you didn't answer I supposed you were staying and I had more fun from the last turn.
After some study of dictionaries I see transitory is not good either. I wanted to say something like 'ending' or 'finishing its existence'.
Just wondering: since you are leaving definitely: will you open the save and look on the world?

Zedd, I know I said we would prefer that new player continues germanos' way of playing, but I think we cannot force you in a style that you don't like. You inherited a kingdom that is in given status. You are the new leader and it is only your decision how you will continue.

quote: Originally posted by germanos I'll post the next save, and you guys can figure out yourselfs what to do with it.

Thank you.
Zedd, I think it should be your decision where you want to start - from the Babylonian save (and play your own 2830 Assyrian turn) or from the germanos save.
But perceive you cannot replay if you open the original 2830 Assyrian save (from germanos).

quote: Originally posted by Peaster I am fairly neutral about the allies issue, but would prefer to see Sparrowhawk do the honors, if he agrees.

Do you mean Ctrl-N?

Edit: the bold text for Zedd

	13-03-2005 01:02									#1793
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Sorry - I meant that Shadowhawk could play the missing player's turn. I would not be bothered that he has seen the other positions, and I'd trust him to play in a reasonable way... better than Control-N, but not with god-like insights.

But I am not sure what situations you had in mind. What is wrong with the status quo? Also, what were you saying about Straybow?

IMO Assyria belongs to Germanos until tomorrow. If he posts today, let's use his save. If he delays, then 2830BC is Zedd's.

BTW - Does Assyria have a password? If not, Zedd can start looking over recent Assyrian positions [something I wish I could have done with Persia].

	13-03-2005 01:50									#1794
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think the only passworded civs were Egypt and Persia. Only if germanos added a password recently(?)

	13-03-2005 02:27									#1795
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Peaster Also, what were you saying about Straybow?

My post is 4 posts before your post...

quote: I meant that Shadowhawk could play the missing player's turn.

Yes, this is point 2) of my post 4 posts before your post. I wanted to say an ally should be allowed to play a turn if there is no Shadow or Sun or anybody else to be a sub. It is not ideal but better than Ctrl-N. But Shadow should be always prefered. IMO.

quote: Originally posted by Peaster What is wrong with the status quo?

Status quo is unknown. Several pages ago there is a debate where germanos objects both points 1) and 2), Kull is neutral with 1) and prefers to allow 2). But no conclusion.
(If you want to see the debate more detailedly, load all the thread ('printthread mode')): the debate starts by 'Posted by Straybow on 20-10-2004 10:12:'.

quote: IMO Assyria belongs to Germanos until tomorrow. If he posts today, let's use his save.

I only think if Zedd wants to continue very peacefully ... then he should rather replay ... especially because germanos has no objections against it.

	13-03-2005 06:14									#1796
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

ST - I don't care about any of these legal issues very much, and will let them go. But I'd like to understand what you were saying about Straybow. Were you saying that you haven't heard from him for awhile [which doesn't seem too serious to me] or saying more - that you are sure there is a problem coming?

	13-03-2005 06:15									#1797
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If germanos will be returning (which doesn't look likely) Then I will certainly play as he has laid out.

If not returning I will continue to play similarly long enough to get my own feel for the game and then continue in my own style of play.

I do need some information on the game, allies, Treaties, agreements, etc. Any one with this info could PM me to let me know.
If germanos has the opportunity It would be nice to get a PM with any tips and plans he had laid out.


Also, and most importantly, what is the turn order? It looks like germanos has allready posted his latest save and out of respect I insist that that one be used. I will carry on afterwards to the best of my abilities.

	13-03-2005 06:30									#1798
	Suffering from ads?

Not sure about Treaties and Agreements, but the Assyrians are allied with the Babylonians

Turn Order:
Straybow (Hittite) - White
SlowThinker (Babylonian) - Green
Germanos/Zedd (Assyria) - Blue
Kull (Egypt) - Yellow
Peaster (Persian) - Light Blue
Kengel (Greek) - Orange
La Fayette (Minoan) - Purple

_______________________________________

Last note, with all the talk of Shadow and Sun, I just wanted to tell you about one Sparrow that is afraid of the dark.........good thing the Hawk is not



* Sparrowhawk the poster previously known as Shadowhawk

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 13-03-2005 at 06:41

	13-03-2005 06:45									#1799
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker BTW, PM tracking system says Straybow is out one week, did anybody hear about him?

I had a really bad week or so. Money was lost, then relocated.

Adjusting cleaning and sleeping activities for new roommate (haven't had one for years). Had to move alot of my "junk" from common areas to my bedroom.

[And PS: Hittites allied with Minoans]

	13-03-2005 15:33									#1800
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

save will be up later today.

Don't blame me, a debate popped up if I should even play my turn.

ST, you never asked if I would stay, you made assumptions and insulted me with degrading me to a temporary player who shouldn't act as I did.
To such things I have not much to say, so I saved myself the effort and time.

Peaster (and Zedd):

quote: You told me it is very unlikely that a departing player would leave instructions, but even a few sentences would probably be very helpful to Zedd.

I never told you such a thing, I said that (certainly in this game) people drop out at an instance, and thus don't leave instructions for their substitutes.
I'll happily give Zedd my point of view of the game. This is exactly why I announced my departure, and decided to keep governing my Civ even though I had lost my appetite for the game.

Despite of the blames flying around, I have acted in the interest of the game (IMO) to exactly do what I would have done if I had not decided to leave. If players have thought I declared war because I would leave, or if the war meant I would stay, then that is their own assumptions.