26-06-2005 15:23									#2011
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Minos confirms: the glorious defenders of Mallia fought with great energy and dedication, and the mighty Assyrian chariots are all painted red with their blood, but the city is no more.
Blood and tears: Minos swears that the ugly Assyrians will experience that sooner or later.

	27-06-2005 05:19									#2012
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Business as usual in greek lands.
We are proud to report another granary was finished, with an additional storage for famous greek wine.

Attachment: pbem_bc_2790_to_minoans.net
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	27-06-2005 09:27									#2013
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I am confused, There has been much talk of the Assyrian attack on babylon, and its bloody outcome. As well as the horendous atrocities that were commited.

But I have taken the time to go back and read pages 56 thru 62 where I began playing as Zedanu. In those times I see 1 attack against babylon, in which the actuall losses are not written but do not appear to be many. I also see the "Operation Anti-Locust" that was launched by babylon that seems to have been equally as damaging to Assyria as Assyria's attack on Babylon. After that there is only one more thing..... The Assyrian Entreaty by me for a peacefull resolution.

I do not see why Hatta, Egypt Greace, and Persia require any recompense from Assyria as they seem to have lost nothing, Minos lost 1 (ONE) caravan, and the rest of the time Babylon and Assyria exchange blows. EQUALLY

I understand babylon's anger, and Minos. But until past turns no other nation (IMO) had cause to DEMAND recompense. I felt the demands were to much, and from what I read, they were.

Babylonians have destroyed assyrian units, and now the city of ER, while gaining more military power, wealth, and knowledge than they would have ever recieved without joining the other nations in continuing this cursed war.

I regret the loss of Milla and of Tarsis especially(since I have some ties to its past) But to me the continuation of this war was rediculus, and only shows enemys that found an opportunity to divide up a well built civ to benefit themselves.

If any of this is off-base then please, fill me in. I understand that this is a game where war and conqer is the method of winning. But to be villified and have all civs turn on 1 just to make the game fun.....

	27-06-2005 10:13									#2014
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Zedd,

I haven't been with this game much longer than you, but IMO Didanu was a powerful bully who had to be stopped. IIRC, he attacked Babylon, Minos, Persia and the Hittites (twice). Hence the alliance, and the desire to curb Assyrian power, rather than just request compensation.

You were thrown into a difficult position, and were basically asked to surrender or fight. You said something about wanting peace, but you also stated your intention to continue Didanu's policies (no?), and you have not expressed much interest in discussing our terms.

BTW - the Persian situation that I inherited was no more enviable than yours, and I think a few others could say the same thing!

	27-06-2005 13:01									#2015
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King Zedanu may want to review the Assyrian archives for 2830 and 2820. Life in the palaces of Mesopotamia is far removed from the wilderness of Western Anatolia, where Assyrian scouts launched surprise attacks to destroy Hatte Skirmishers and Charioteers.

Our solitary offense against Assyria was the presence of Swordsmen stationed on the Seyhan River, positioned there when Assyrian units ordered out of Hatte lands did not move by the route agreed upon in correspondence. These Swordsmen perished in a merciless assault.

Meanwhile, O King Zedanu, thy most treacherous predecesor Didanu slew peaceful Hittite merchants encamped at the gate of Nisibin on their way to Nimrud. Also slain were Hatte Skirmishers who had been granted safe passage through Assyria and who diligently followed the path shown by their Assyrian guides. Hatte corpses were left to rot in the swamps of Arrapka.

Our memory is longer still. In the days before Didanu Assyria coveted the lush valleys of the West and slew our peasants as they moved to settle near the coast. A number of slaves were handed over to recompense us for our loss, yet we were forced to abandon Aramea and Haran.

We have hunted the murderous Assyrians who yet lurk within our borders to threaten our merchants and peasants. The presence of Ish Mandarun remains an offense to us, yet we have stayed our hand instead of mustering our chariots to rush across the border.

	28-06-2005 04:59									#2016
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quote: Originally posted by Zedd I understand that this is a game where war and conqer is the method of winning. But to be villified and have all civs turn on 1 just to make the game fun.....

You must ask germanos. It was hard for me to understand he started a war against the rest of the world

quote: Originally posted by Zedd I do not see why Hatta, Egypt Greace, and Persia require any recompense from Assyria as they seem to have lost nothing, Minos lost 1 (ONE) caravan, and the rest of the time Babylon and Assyria exchange blows. EQUALLY

It was explained it is not only about compensation but also about weakening the warlike nation. It would be too easy if you could start a war anytime and if you would see things go bad you would simply say - stop now, here I am returning what I destroyed, I will try later when I will be better prepared.

And the compensation is not about Babylon having lost 2 skirmishers and 2 early chariots (not sure if I am correct).
It is about cities, caravans, improvements that couldnt be built or were sold because we had to build an army

Babylon is still prepared to talk about resignation and terms. But it would be costly.
And our willingness to accept your resignation won't last forever. After his attack of Babylon Didanu didn't bring forward any peace conditions. He offered war, nothing else.

	28-06-2005 20:11									#2017
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3 days national mourning in Knossos: the glorious defenders of Mallia shall never be forgotten.

Attachment: mi_b2790.net
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	29-06-2005 00:18									#2018
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I opened LaF's save and noticed something odd. One of my units, which was fortified at the end of my 2790BC turn, has moved during the Greek or Minoan turn. It also has a "G" (go to) on its shield.

If nobody else has problems, I will not ask for a replay, since I can probably just move the unit back next turn. Or, maybe Civ2dip can fix it even faster.

Zedd - I doubt you will notice this unit, since it is over 5 squares from your units and cities, AFAIK. But (just in case) would you agree not to attack it until I can re-fortify it?

	29-06-2005 00:34									#2019
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Perhaps my cats are Persian breed after all

(I swear I didn't do anything else than download kengel's save and play my turn)

	29-06-2005 02:04									#2020
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Did Peaster forget to Ctrl-N at end of turn?

Just be sure to go to that unit and cancel orders first thing.

	29-06-2005 03:23									#2021
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Hmmm... Well, it is my habit to Ctrl-N, and none of my other fortified units defied orders. But I can't be 100% sure that I didn't forget.

If that is the most likely explanation, then Zedd has the right to attack my unit. That would only be fair, since he lost a unit that way.

	29-06-2005 13:05									#2022
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The city of Tarsus is destroyed. Merchants sell their goods at a loss as they race back to the ruins to search for loved ones among the survivors.

One by one the great cities of the Hatte train their soldiers and charioteers. The Assyrians shall feel the bite of the sword, the sting of the arrow; shall hear the thunder of our chariots and know fear before their blood stains the ground!

Other than that not much happened.

Attachment: hittites_b2780.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	29-06-2005 19:45									#2023
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No worries Peaster, They will be allowed to return to Persia.

	30-06-2005 02:31									#2024
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quote: Originally posted by Peaster mmm... Well, it is my habit to Ctrl-N, and none of my other fortified units defied orders. But I can't be 100% sure that I didn't forget.

Is the unit moved on the kengel's save already?
Maybe kengel or SparrowHawk could send you also the start of the Greek turn.
Then you could add Ctrl-N to our save and repeat the test with a new Greek save.

I would like to know if there is any way how to get units to move other than a missing Ctrl-N. (But AFAIK no PBEM player reported it yet)

If it is a missing Ctrl-N then I suggest Zedd exploits it or at least ignores it. I want to say you shouldn't protect Persian units. It should be at player's responsibility not to forget Ctrl-N.
(I forgot Ctrl-N several turns ago and was quiet and hoped Assyria doesn't attack. He didn't.)

	30-06-2005 02:34									#2025
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I downloaded and will start the turn, but I can't promise to play today...

	30-06-2005 04:02									#2026
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I took notice St, but thought your were scouting.
I have forgotten ctrl+N myself and can hardly fault anyone who does. If the "loose" unit were to attack then I would probably feel differently.

I do think there was a report of units that were on "GO-TO" command moving between turns. I make it a rule to clear any go-to commands active. (or better yet don't use them at all )

	30-06-2005 06:17									#2027
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Is the unit moved on the kengel's save already?

Yes. It has moved by the end of the Greek turn. Zedd can attack it if he thinks he can win. But I don' t think he will find it and I doubt he could win (it is a skirmisher, and Persian skirmishers are quite tough).

	30-06-2005 16:03									#2028
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This is the original save before hexedit.

Attachment: bab_b2780 before hexedit.net
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	30-06-2005 16:04									#2029
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Then I applied the hexediting:
9 shields has been added to Nippur's shieldbox (6 from 2790 + 3 new)
a unit that was created in Nippur (at 141,75 now) has been changed to NONE (since it was NONE before it was lost)

The saves differ in 2 bytes, so no side effect is possible.

	30-06-2005 16:05									#2030
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Our brave armies attacked Kurigalzu, after bloody combat destroyed one squad of Assyrian Chariots II and some quarters of the city.
We apologize our allies that our attacks are sparse, but we cannot throw all our armies into attack. The fort near Kish makes us prudent.

_________________
Units homed in foreign cities were rehomed to Bab cities.

Attachment: bab_b2780 final.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	30-06-2005 20:23									#2031
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker We apologize our allies that our attacks are sparse,_________________

No problem, Immortal !
Sparse attacks are mugh better than heavy defeats

(and the other members of the Alliance also are getting stronger and stronger: we shall overcome)

	30-06-2005 21:25									#2032
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quote: Originally posted by Peaster Yes. It has moved by the end of the Greek turn.

Do you want to say it was OK at the start of the Greek turn?

	30-06-2005 22:51									#2033
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No, I say nothing about that. I don't know how to answer about the beginning of the Greek turn unless Sparrowhawk wants to open it and "cheat". I probably forgot to Ctrl-N.

	01-07-2005 08:02									#2034
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quote: Originally posted by Peaster No, I say nothing about that. I don't know how to answer about the beginning of the Greek turn unless Sparrowhawk wants to open it and "cheat". I probably forgot to Ctrl-N.

This is quite easy for you to test - just open up the file you posted, and see if it's possible to activate any of your fortified units. If so, then it was a forgotten Cntrl-N

	01-07-2005 08:22									#2035
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Okay, file downloaded and opened and there was a fortified unit that I could move out of the city, therefore I think "control N" was forgotten.

I am sending the city name and unit type to Peaster to see if it was the same unit or not (I am 98% certain it will be the same unit).

* Sparrowhawk "the control N guy"

	01-07-2005 08:24									#2036
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Egyption harassers were brought to justice after thier murderous rage in the south.

Civillian casualties in Kurigalzu are being mourned even as the damage is repaired.

Other wise, no other news is forthcoming.


On a side note...
Egyptians requested a meeting which was accidently accepted. Once discussions concluded, I re-started my turn and re-played in the same manner with the exception of a unit that lost 1 turn of movement. I elected to accept the move loss and not try re-playing again.

Attachment: ze_b2780.net
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	01-07-2005 09:15									#2037
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Okay, file downloaded and opened and there was a fortified unit that I could move out of the city, therefore I think "control N" was forgotten. I am sending the city name and unit type to Peaster to see if it was the same unit or not (I am 98% certain it will be the same unit). * Sparrowhawk "the control N guy"

The unit that moved was not in a city, but you have proven I did something wrong. I vaguely recall adjusting the tax slider after a Ctrl-N recently, but I am not sure that could cause trouble, and I am not sure I even did it in this game.

BTW - Sometimes I am actually grateful that I can forget things (Hint Hint)

	01-07-2005 10:30									#2038
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The .sav file I posted was not the correct one i think. But I see it was dled before I cought my error so if it works OK then we can use it.

That one is the one I accidently held meetings with the egyptians. I don't think the result of the meeting changed anything, but there were some movements on my part that I made after that save. I kept that file to make sure my movements were correct up to that point.

If we must use that file (noow its dl'd twice) I will make due, but I would like to use my real save with everyones OK

Last edited by Zedd on 01-07-2005 at 16:32

	01-07-2005 12:27									#2039
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Egyptian forces continue operations in all theatres. Minor casualties are noted.

Edit #1: Just noticed Zedd's comment - Umm, there have been combat operations, so it's probably too late. However, I would GLADLY replay, if you really want me too....but don't expect me to make the same mistakes!

Edit #2: I'll be taking off for a long weekend, with no internet access. Might be able to check in once more before leaving. Will be back Monday, maybe Tuesday.

Attachment: egypt_b2780.net
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Last edited by Kull on 01-07-2005 at 12:36

	01-07-2005 12:57									#2040
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Zedd, I think you could continue if nothing happened during the F3 negotiations. But I am not sure about this.

I don't think you need an agreement of all players only the Kull's.
But the game would be strange IMHO if Kull isn't able to repeat his moves correctly.