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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:22
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4th Project update:
I've completed some major work regarding the map in the past couple days. What I've done is eliminated roads altogether (hold on), and given each city a people 'resource' underneath, which allows each city to be able to produce certain nationality units depending upon what kind of 'people' resource is tucked away underneath each city. This allows the British to create 'German Line Infantry' in Hanover and Bremen, but no where else (since the 'German' resource isn't present anywhere else that Britain controls). It took forever to think out, and another forever to create, and a 3rd forever to make it work. In addition to that, I eliminated jungle, transforming into a sort of 'pseudo-road' which looks identical to grassland, but gives the same sort of bonus as if it were a road. Check out my thread in the general forum about '1-Tile Road Suggestions' (or whatever I named it) to see what I've done regarding that.
I'm working on a completed unit list, with unit strengths and types and all that fun stuff. Expect that fairly soon in the next update. I've gotten all of the units to work in the game (without it crashing) so far, so that's a step in the right direction. Now I just need the units to stick into the scenario. 
I've changed the standard 'mine' graphic into a small village sort of thing. It looks more accurate, and kind of cool also. 
I think that's about it for now. More in the next update.
Project Details:
So yes, this is my next project. I originally planned to do this one first, but I got a case of Civil War fever, and the rest is history. This time around though, I plan on spending more time on working on the scenario. For my Civil War scenario, I simply wanted to be the first one to get out a 'good' complete large-scale scenario, but now I want to make a 'great' scenario, no matter how long it takes. That coupled with the fact that I have about an hour to myself every day means that the pace for the creation of this scenario will be much slower.
The current list of civs in the scenario is: Prussia, Russia, Spain, France, Britain, Austria, the Ottoman Empire, Sweden, Poland, Northern European Minors (Denmark, Portugal, Holland, etc.), Northern German Minors (Saxony, Kleves, Mainz, etc.), Southern German Minors (Bavaria, Wurzburg, Baden, etc.), Northern Italian Minors (Venice, Romagna, Tuscany, Switzerland, etc.), Papal States, African Minors (Libya, Algiers, Tunis, Morocco), and (of course) Barbarians (bah). I had to fit it within the 16-civ limit, and I think that was the best way I could do so.
Currently, the basic unit list is like so (most infantry/cavalry units have a 1792 and 1805 variation):
code:
Line Infantry 1792 (Basic infantry)
Line Infantry 1805
Grenadiers 1792 (Heavy, veteran infantry formations)
Grenadiers 1805
Light Infantry 1792 (Skirmishing light infantry formations)
Light Infantry 1805
Dragoons 1792 (Standard cavalry like the one in Civ 3)
Dragoons 1805
Cuirassiers 1792 (Guys on horses with big swords that ride fast)
Cuirassiers 1805
Hussars 1792 (Fast cavalry forces with swords, used mainly for skirmishing and scouting)
Hussars 1805
3 Pounder
6 Pounder
9 Pounder
Howitzer
1st Rate Ship of the Line
2nd Rate Ship of the Line
3rd Rate Ship of the Line
Frigate
Sailed Transport
Keep in mind all land units require 1 population point, as they are rather large formations for the time.
I've placed all of the nations navies on the map now. I'll give you the numbers that each has of each type of ship. If I don't name a unit, then it doesn't have any ships. The total warship count at the end doesn't include transports.
Naval Disposition
* All total counts do not include Transports
** Nations that have one fleet have it located outside their capital city
code:
Nation 1st Rate 2nd Rate 3rd Rate Frigate S Transport Total*
BRITAIN 6 15 9 15 7 46 ships
London 3 7 4 6 7 20
Brest 2 4 4 5 1 15
Gibraltar 1 4 2 4 2 11
N. E. MINORS 2 14 11 11 3 38 ships
Copenhagen 1 5 4 4 1 14
Amsterdam 1 5 4 4 1 14
Lisbon 0 4 3 3 1 10
SPAIN 2 10 8 10 3 30 ships
Valencia 2 8 6 7 2 23
Naples 0 2 2 3 1 7
FRANCE 2 10 8 8 4 28 ships
Le Havre 1 5 3 3 2 12
Bordeaux 1 2 2 2 1 7
Toulon 0 3 3 3 1 9
RUSSIA 0 6 6 7 3 19 ships
St. Petersburg 0 4 3 5 1 12
Sevastopol 0 2 3 2 2 7
OTTOMANS** 0 4 5 5 2 14 ships
SWEDEN** 0 2 1 3 1 6 ships
All cities and improvements are placed on the map currently. I'm tweaking cities a bit, to modify production and population values to try and make them more accurate, along with tweaking city names.
Here's the current terretorial breakdown.
 Attachment: minimap.jpg
This has been downloaded 183 time(s).
Last edited by Trip on 17-10-2002 at 22:54
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Daftpanzer
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Cydonia
Mar 2002
time: 05:22
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This definately sounds like a cool idea... have u heard of the game Europa universalis 1/2? no2 has the napoleonic wars and stuff and it lets you play with all the minor states and kingdoms in europe as it was at that time so it has all the accurate details... I could post a screenshot of the europe map or something, but it sounds like you have good enough info already tho.....
anyway this looks like a cool idea. i hope this will be more fun than the EU2 napoleonic scenario, where france doesnt do anything - unless you control it , but then theres no stopping you taking over 2/3 of england in the first year... lol....
Last edited by Daftpanzer on 09-09-2002 at 04:06
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Andrew_Jay
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St. John's, NF
Aug 2001
time: 01:52
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those unit choices sound good, especially for the land, it keeps the different kinds down and keeps the unit selection rather eloquent, ie, it looks like that with a modest number of units each will have their own role.
I'm not so sure about the artillery, maybe 2 or three kinds. I'm pretty sure 3, 6, 9, 12 pounder guns would probably have just been grouped into mixed batteries. So some artillery unit that represented a battery comprised of different guns that would be used on a field would be good in my opinion. Then you can keep the howitzer as another unit, perhaps against fortresses and cities.
I was mostly asking about the units for how they will appear, since for your Civil War scenario the riflemen looked perfect for the game. Have you found any good early 19th century user created units yet?
Good luck with the scenario.
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Mortifer
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I will try it when its ready, even that the 1800s isnt my fav. era hehe.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
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Trip:
when does the scenerio start? if it starts in 1789, the having Poland is fine, but if it begins later, at the time of Napoleons campaigns, such as 1798, the Poland as an independent player makes no sense. Having the Islamic states of Northen Africa as independent also might be a waste of a civ: either keep them ottoman, or leave it empty would be my advise.
As for units, the Russians also had an imperial guard.
Perhaps you could copy some of the excellent napoleonic scenerios for civ 2 as far as units go. A list may be:
Militias, Line Infantry, Grenadiers, Guards, Marines (for a few civs) Hussars, Lancers, Dragoons, Janessaries, Mamlukes (for Ottoman in Egypt) and so forth. Perhasp having several UU's might work, even character UU's that cannot be built again, like napoleon, wellington, so forth.
As for naval units, too many may not be wise. Wny make a 20 gun frigate at all, or a 60 gun Ship of the Line, unless you make the differences dramatic, and they why make frigates at all? Perhaps having just one form or two of frigates, one for fast aiding, one for battles, 3 at most of ships of the line (1st, 2nd, 3rd rates), including things such as scoops or ketchs to widen the variaty of naval units.
Well, just a ramble of ideas.
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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Something to keep in mind is that the British naval advantage during the period of the Age of Sail was primarily in the quality of their ship crews FAR more than it was in the size or quality of their actual ships. The reality is that the French had at many times a larger and more powerful navy in terms of guns.
What kept the British winning battle after battle against their opponents (especially the French, the Spanish, and the Dutch) was the quality of their crews... A telling example is the Battle of Trafalgar, where the British fleet was outnumbered 2-1, by far more if you count guns rather than ships... the British *decisively* won the battle (and others like it) due to a simply devastating advantage in the quality of both gunnery crews and sailing crews.
Now, in a Civ3 scenario, there are several different ways you can model that.
1) You can give the Brit's a special 64 SOL or 74 SOL that's a hell of a lot tougher than their opponent's SOL's. However, it would actually be more realistic if ALL British naval craft were somehow tougher...
2) You can somehow give the British a +1 bonus on the starting experience level of all naval craft. This means that SOL and frigates constructed by the British with harbours will *start* as Elites, which actually may not be such a bad way of modeling their advantage. The only problem then is that you don't leave them any room for advancement unless you create additional experience levels (an "ultra elite" beyond elite?)
Personally, I like the second option better than the first, though a combination of both might be the best of all. This would be offset, of course, against a substantial French advantage in having access to the Imperial Guard and other advanced ground units the British can't match.
Btw... if you want more information about Napoleonic-era Age of Sail warfare, there's a GREAT tactical level game that a friend of mine developed and published years back that a bunch of people I know get together to play on occassion. Here's the URL for one of the websites maintained by the guys I know who play this:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquar...y/5896/cca.html
Good Luck.
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shrift
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Syd, Australia
Apr 2002
time: 15:22
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i've looked at this and ur thread in CFC and it seems like it'll be a pretty professional job. i haven't played a scenario on civ yet and this Napoleonic one has really gotten me intrested. cood u jot down wen u think it'll b done? also r there any really good scenarios that ppl cood recomend?
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Admiral PJ
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Southeast England , UK
Dec 2000
time: 05:22
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I think you should keep the big map, and keep cities spaced apart, to make it take time to get between them.
You should have a special Nelsons Flag ship, with about 10 extra hitpoints to it, and attack 12,defence 8 (adjusted for your ships attack ratings) In other words a super ship.
It should be made so if Nelsons flagships lost, the british navy have got a small chance of succeeding.
You ought to have egypt there in some way too, it was vital- where napoleon send troops and scientists to investigate the Egyptian culture.
This was where the english found the enemy french fleet too and destroy them though they were protected by the coast.
You ought to have special wonders in each capital/ major city , which give the original owners bonuses, and any one invading a reason to capture them. For example - Plymouth/portsmouth or somewhere has The Admiralty wonder, +1 ship speed . Paris would have the Louvre Art gallery, and Notre Dame to help its republic flourish (it has a womans suffrage like unit) and there could be the Bastille prison as a forbidden palace to reduce corruption etc.
Maybe you can create single special units that can't be made again, by adding them in the editor, and taking away their resource or something.. for one offs like Wellington and the Imperial Guard.
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08-09-2002 12:39
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